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Catoptromancy

Map Status Phase 2

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Freedoom is a very old project, 14 years to be exact. Some maps have not aged well and have undergone few updates. Some maps are were added to fill slots or not removed to keep slots full. I think it is time to list the maps that should be replaced or need substantial adjustments.

MAP06: Very large bland rooms, needs substantial detailing or replacement. Gameplay overall is decent.
MAP14: Can probably just be replaced. I think author said it was from another project and used to fill the slot at the time.
MAp17: Very large and bland. Probably better to replace.
MAP19: The core map is nice. The keys are trivial to grab and seem almost pointless.
MAP20: Overall is good. Could use some modern detailing.
MAP21: Overall is good. Could use some modern detailing.
MAP23: Unfinished massive map with random routing. Has been updated recently, still needs work.
MAP24: Not exactly sure what to say about this one, only that I feel something is missing.
MAP27: Could use some modern detailing.
MAP30: The actual boss fight is good, though not original. The map part feels very outdated. Replace.
MAP31: Leftover, not enough space to detail. Could be replaced.
MAP32: Added to fill slot. Newer version on repo is much more sane. Could be replaced if everyone hates the experimental strategy required.

4 maps so far can be easily replaced and I do not think anyone would complain about these being missing.

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I can totally agree with getting rid of Map 17, I thought it was bad when I first used Freedoom back in 2007. On the other hand I like map 23, while the other 2 I am indifferent to.

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Jaws In Space said:

On the other hand I like map 23


Map23 can be beaten in like 3 minutes. The version I initially found was vast keyed doors without keys, obviously unfinished HOM areas and the way to the exit required player teleporting onto barrels thus losing lots of life. The current MAP23 is only exitable because I just tossed a teleport in that led to exit, so the 0.7 iwad was fully beatable.

It is a vast sprawling mess. I still like it, but it needs a dedicated mapper to fix the seriously broken routes.

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I took a look through MAP23, and I've found the following problems:

  • The long, winding hallway that leads to the Yellow Key is completely swamped with enemies. Even on the hard difficulties, this is unreasonable.

  • The area behind the blue door is empty and plain. No reason to go in there.

  • As you've stated, a teleport that forces the player to telefrag a barrel, causing the rest to explode. There's also far too many barrels in that room.

  • Sector 16 has only one teleport linedef. The other linedefs don't do anything.

  • There's no DM starts anywhere in the map.
There's probably more that I missed, but there you go.

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Okay so I just had a look at map 23 & yeah it is a bit worse than I remember, but still I do have fond memories of the map when I had to use Freedoom back in 2007 so I'm going to take a shot at giving the map a much needed update.

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Well here's what I've done after just 5 hours of mapping on & off. https://www.dropbox.com/s/qqpkuu24wqyauh3/Freedoom23.wad?dl=0 I often find that the best problem solver when fixing maps is the delete key :) First order of business was to just open up the map a bit, it seemed that every door I went through locked me in, that is now changed, some doors were simply removed, while others no longer close at all. Secondly I decided to just cut out some of the extra crap & condense the map down into a tighter area, like that dumb section with useless teleporters behind all of the doors & the long Zombieman hallway. Thirdly I wanted to shorten the map up by reducing the monster count, the Zombiemen hallway took a bit of a hit through deletion & difficulty settings adjustments, I cut out half the monsters in the crate room, & I replaced all the Barons with Revenants. This is by no means perfect, but it is a step in the right direction, I just want to know if you like the map more now with just these minimal changes.

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MAP23 needs to be seriously redone. Key locations and doors for them. The entire routing needs to be carefully worked out. I do like the maze-like complex and openness. I will start testing stuff again soon.
Mirror: http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/jawsinspace/Freedoom23.wad

I was playing the old MAP19, did not realize it was substantially updated. It looks excellent in the new areas but the keys are pointless. Kill a bunch of zombiemen and then collect all the keys at once. There is also a sliver of a lift in a wall; that does not look like a standard trigger and should be changed to a switch or something more noticeable.

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Map 24 has a pretty interesting layout. I think it needs someone to do a detail and lighting pass on it though, it's a little bland with most of the hallways and rooms. Fairly spacey with little detail in a fair few areas.

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I don't like E1M1. It feels too elaborate for a first map, and the sheer amount of hitscan monsters (shotgunners especially) and lack of cover do not make this a fair or fun map, let alone which slot it occupies. MAP01 "gets it", however.

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I really like E1M1, but agree it is too hard for E1M1. It fits really good as a first map so maybe E2M1. There are not many good candidates to swap in for an E1M1.

A good map shuffling in E1 and E2 is needed, as well as a new E1M1.

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maybe MAP01 could be swapped with E1M1, i like both maps, but MAP01 is way too easy imo


That might be a good idea. Both maps could potentially do the job of the other.

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Map19
When I finished up Map19, I left the key placement as it was done by the original author. I changed much but I would not change the key placement.
The keys may not be difficult to get, but the play of Map19 is not about the difficulty of getting the keys. Map19 is about exploring the castle. It is nice to have a few maps that are not all about be led around difficult fights just to get a series of keys.
Map19 allows more freedom than most in this area. If you always play it top down, you will have the keys before you realize you need them. Experiment a little, play it some other way and you will find otherwise.

I have been considering eliminating a few more grey rooms that are not part of the castle itself. They seem extraneous to the castle. On the other hand, without them
there may be too much castle and nothing but castle. Those huge rising stairs in the courtyard are still out of proportion.

My work on Map01 was rejected because (it was claimed) made it too complex for a first map. It will be interesting to see what the response to replacing it with a more complex map will be. I have not given up on my revision of Map01, just have not had the time to try out new ideas, and my enthusiasm is crimped by the expected negativity.

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wesleyjohnson said:

My work on Map01 was rejected because (it was claimed) made it too complex for a first map.


The old Map01, the current E1M1 is an excellent map itself and already a bit too complex for it mapslot. I think we should focus working on or replacing the unfinished/filler maps and not overhauling the decently made maps.

E1M1 does have a balance issue that only needs a little modification. All maps can be adjusted for skill balance, mostly in the lower skills since -skill 4 has been heavily tested.

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i think phase 2 maps should be as complaex as can be, it makes since for phase 1 to have a gentle gradient of difficulty, since it could potentially introduce new players with its free status, but phase 2 should take inspiration from boom megawads IMO

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well if it dont take me much time to finish map04 for complexe16 probably i can do more freedoom maps if that dont mind you, probably more tech bases because i like a lot to work with freedom tech base textures but if not probably another hell map (not sure if im good doing these).

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