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joe-ilya

Why is deathmatch underrated?

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Seriously? Why is that?

An active deathmatch server may pop up once in 2 days. But modes like : Cooperative and Survival are always having active servers.
Is deathmatch harder? Or is it because killing monsters is more satisfying than killing other marines? Or maybe deathmatch is way too fast paced for the many?
There are many great DM complications (GothicDM, Greenwar/II, Dwango series, etc) Not as much as the normal maps, but it's there, just waiting to be played in a frenzy match.

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I quickly found that the average Deathmatcher is so much better at the game than me that it hardly seems possible to catch up =P besides, I like giant bizarre maps, not little game-y arenas.

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Actually I would like to try to do some deathmatch, I played only few times Doom in multiplayer. The only populated servers I found back when I searched were only coop or survival. Idk maybe games like Quake, Unreal with full 3D environments and designed mainly for DM are more appealing.

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yakfak said:

I quickly found that the average Deathmatcher is so much better at the game than me that it hardly seems possible to catch up =P besides, I like giant bizarre maps, not little game-y arenas.

You should hop on our Push server. It's pretty lively.

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Probably because people like solving puzzles,finishing mazes and doing some useful stuff ... etc, Rather than wasting time fighting some guys randomly .

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Deathmatch is pretty popular on Odamex. I can typically ask for a deathmatch game in IRC at any time and get a few people that are down to clown. Make sure you have Odamex installed alongside ZD and Zandro!

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DM is very tiered, it takes a lot of practice to even stand a chance against the veterans. That means a lot of dedication to grinding the same few maps and yet the same people will still beat you decisively. Like with any old deathmatch community, there's a fairly steep skill curve. Given the average age of Doom players, it's probable they just don't feel like spending all their free time after work on that, even if they don't mind the competitive trash talk and everything.

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I think it's just Doom deathmatch isn't as interesting as a game like Quake or Unreal Tournament. In fact if I had to pick between the three I'd go with the last two.
I mean Doom is really simple, deathmatch is no exception, and this leaves gameplay to not be a fun experience to many.

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Marcaek said:

I had a post here but it disappeared. Anyway monsters just get in the way and interrupt the balance of a map unless they're carefully used like in rottking's 32in24-13 map for example.

Was it this post?

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1. The doom community is international. Some people want to play when others want to sleep.

2. Skill levels are disproportionate, some players suck and some are crazy good, making it more fun for some people and frustrating for others. Monsters are always the same.

3. You can't practice by yourself, as most of us Doom loners are.

4. You can play coop by yourself. Even when a coop server is empty, you can still kill monsters on your own until someone joins. Waiting for someone to join an empty deathmatch arena can feel like forever, and because of reason 2, even if someone does join, they may not stay for long.

I love deathmatch but I don't have a reliable internet situation or a lot of time to get good at it. So single player, mapping, and demo recording is more my ballpark.

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@40oz 1.Same as any other game modes.
2.Same as any other mode, people can be better at speedrunning or pushing you into traps than you.
3.There are bots, you know.
4.Same as above.

I'm good at deathmatch and sometimes at SP mapping, but not demo recording :P

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Perhaps because the optimal strategy for most deathmatch maps nowadays can be summed up as:

  • Run for the BFG/PL/RL
  • Spam and (spawn)camp everybody else at the rate 5+ kills per second.
  • ????
  • PROFIT!!!!
I admit I like some mindless spamming/camping myself (it's also the only way a high-ping player can have a decent/fun game, and even come on top), but it might not be everybody's cup of tea. It always makes me smirk when somebody still complains of camping/spamming on Brit10 *rolleyes*

For that matter, I've noticed that 1-on-1 deathmatch servers are more popular from FFAs, but they might not be the best choice for high pingers.

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Maes said:

Perhaps because the optimal strategy for most deathmatch maps nowadays can be summed up as:

  • Run for the BFG/PL/RL
  • Spam and (spawn)camp everybody else at the rate 5+ kills per second.
  • ????
  • PROFIT!!!!

Hmm. Sounds like there needs to be DM maps that require strategy.
I've haven't played DM in years but when I did I play it I noticed most if not all of the maps I played were small, even when there were over half a dozen people playing. That kind of pissed me off.

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Deathmatch is for fast paced action lovers. Requirement of strategy usually means less action and that usually means less fun for DM lovers. Small maps are generally great for DM, because they allow constant combat, which is what the players want, instead of spending time by searching for opponents.

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Maes said:

Perhaps because the optimal strategy for most deathmatch maps nowadays can be summed up as:

  • Run for the BFG/PL/RL
  • Spam and (spawn)camp everybody else at the rate 5+ kills per second.
  • ????
  • PROFIT!!!!


That's weird...back when I played it was:

  • Run for the SSG
  • Spam and (spawn) camp everybody else at the rate of 0.5 kills per second. (without everyone calling you a spammer, even though it's the exact same thing)
  • ????
  • PROFIT!!!!
That's more than enough to make it underrated...that and the fact that every single game mode sticks to the same overplayed maps/mapsets that they have done since day 1 of that game mode.

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scifista42 said:

Deathmatch is for fast paced action lovers. Requirement of strategy usually means less action and that usually means less fun for DM lovers. Small maps are generally great for DM, because they allow constant combat, which is what the players want, instead of spending time by searching for opponents.


Yeah. I think that might be the problem. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, I just feel that's why DM is so stale. (Here's your answer Joe)

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

Probably because people like solving puzzles,finishing mazes and doing some useful stuff ... etc, Rather than wasting time fighting some guys randomly .

WOAH woah woah, that has to be one of the most ignroant things I've read on DW in ages..

Deathmatch against another skilled player takes serious brain play. Controlling the 'sweet spots' of maps where there are good items/weapons, outwitting your opponent - The argument that it takes far more strategy than SP can definitely be made.

Monsters slowly lumber about, you point your gun and shoot. There's no comparison to having an opponent that can actually think and strategize against you.

Timing is key in DM as well - Knowing exactly when to fire and not to fire, and knowing what gun to use is key to NOT sucking in DM. If someone is just laying on the SSG, I can hold cover til right after they fire and come around the corner and blow them away.

I think this thread is showing the real reason Deathmatch is underrated is because most players don't understand it. It's not all "grab the BFG, find cover and spam" unless you're playing a shitty map. It's about covering the sweet spots, CONSTANTLY doing "head checks", and keeping yourself mobile.

Fighting against an intelligent opponent offers far more challenge than any SP mapset I've played, short of slaughtermaps or just super long maps, which generally aren't actually that hard, but they FEEL hard because they take so much fucking time.

If you're playing maps that lack a good Z-axis, you should change maps. Judas23 (which is overplayed as fuck and boring at this point, but still) is basically all about the Z-axis, and that map is 20 years old.

I'm not expecting everyone here to fall in love with Deathmatch, but saying its "simple" or "pointless" or "doesn't require strategy" or even "it doesn't offer variety" shows that you know nothing at all about the game mode and haven't bothered to try out a veriety of maps.

Big maps AND small maps are fun. Brit10 and many other common mapsets are boring because they've been done to death, but if you think every map is an "arcadey little arena" you clearly haven't played quality DM mapsets.

Just my opinion, as a deathmatch mapper/played AND SP mapper/player. Don't go putting something down just because you haven't bothered to give it a fair chance (or simply aren't good enough to keep up with your foes).

I'd like to add that I find Doom deathmatch even more fun that most of the "floaty" DM games that came in it's wake. Rocket Jumping is great and all but that shit gets stale. I'll take the solid pacing and extreme strategizing of a Doom DM any day of the week.

EDIT

nxGangrel said:

I've haven't played DM in years but when I did I play it I noticed most if not all of the maps I played were small, even when there were over half a dozen people playing. That kind of pissed me off.

This is a totally fair point and I see where you're coming from, but believe me when I say there is no lack of "larger" DM maps out there, they're just (for some reason I can't comprehend) not played as often. The "itty bitty" maps are done to death and are only fun in 1v1 at this point. In my opinion, deathmatch is best done as a 1v1 to avoid bullshit deaths and stupid spamming, but it can be loads of fun with 4-6 people on larger maps.

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Doomkid said:

This is a totally fair point and I see where you're coming from, but believe me when I say there is no lack of "larger" DM maps out there, they're just (for some reason I can't comprehend) not played as often. The "itty bitty" maps are done to death and are only fun in 1v1 at this point. In my opinion, deathmatch is best done as a 1v1 to avoid bullshit deaths and stupid spamming, but it can be loads of fun with 4-6 people on larger maps.

I think what needs to be done (or maybe I'll do them why the hell not?) are death match maps that are of decent size that keep the mayhem and fun, but also somewhat balanced. As in you spawn away from other players, get a low tier gun (like the shotgun and chaingun for example) easily while the more powerful guns are in harder to reach/out of the way areas, and the levels are good with movement and have a pattern. If you have played Unreal Tournament 99' before, use that game's maps for an example.

I'm sure I might sound like a total idiot saying this and not knowing better, but that's my opinion on the situation.

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Don't worry man, you don't sound like an idiot - your points are actually valid :) I was more directing that entire rant at DMGUYDZ64, because his post was just... Very, very dumb.

It sounds like you might enjoy LMS, which is basically Survival in Deathmatch form, although you do start with all guns, minus the BFG of course.

Here are some really fun DM packs you might enjoy:

-lazarus
-udm3
-udmX
-cybercrime series
-greenwar
-gw2
-FastDM
-Every 32in24 (after 32in24:10)
-DBAB series: for LMS, large maps that are amazing visually

(thanks to Marcaek for reminding me of a lot of these excellent WADs)

I've even made quite a few DM wads, though admittedly the quality varies a lot with them, it all depends what you like.

Sometimes servers can be hard to find, but there's a lot more out there than Brit, Exec and Dwango :)

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SSG is way too powerful. You shouldn't be able to one-shot a player who has 100/100 health and armor. Just... what the fuck. They needed the SSG to balance Doom 2 out and make the monsters easier to kill but it was never balanced for DM. There should have been a minigun, railgun, or grenade launcher. Even a nailgun would've been cool. Something quiet and discrete perhaps. The only thing that stands a chance against an amazing SSG player is a well-placed rocket or very good map architecture that discourages camping and boring weapon progression.

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TheCupboard said:

The only thing that stands a chance against an amazing SSG player is a well-placed rocket or very good map architecture that discourages camping and boring weapon progression.


Or a plasma gun in my case...I know how to use that against SSG spammers ;)

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Can confirm that a good PG player will literally melt your face before you can even be in range for the ssg to make work. To topic, i really liked my DM a couple of years ago, in particular i really enjoied maps that forced you to go in close quarters to get an advantage (may it be a more powerful weapon or a power up, or even a couple of medikit). Now i feel i'm just too bad to jump in a DM match and not go last :P

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Doomkid said:

WOAH woah woah, that has to be one of the most ignroant things I've read on DW in ages..

Deathmatch against another skilled player takes serious brain play.

You said it pal, Nothing more than distraction :P

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Distracting from what? Playing Doom by yourself?

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