have fun?

[Memfis]

What's a brother gotta do to stop worrying about quality and start having fun with the editor? Is it impossible to escape perfectionist hell? I just wanted to have a good time drawing crap, then this bastard brain came in and told me that my work sucks. I didn't invite him???

[Fletcher`]

You can't tell me how to have fun. I happen to enjoy crippling self critique and low confidence in my work.

[MTrop]

If you are worrying about the work you do, you need to do WAY MORE of it and learn from your mistakes along the way. Because then, you will have the confidence that you need in your own ability to not care if what you make is good or bad.

Hand a guitarist a guitar, and they'll just play it. And they do it with a smile, too, because they've done it so much that they don't care if it sounds good or bad; it might sound okay if they are just on autopilot. Hell, they might play a song they made up. Who knows.

Keep mapping. Don't stop.

[Linguica]

One of the greatest pranks that God played on humans is that our sense of taste and discernment evolves faster than our actual skills, so everything we make always seems like crap.

[tomatoKetchup]

MTrop said:

Hand a guitarist a guitar, and they'll just play it. And they do it with a smile, too, because they've done it so much that they don't care if it sounds good or bad; it might sound okay if they are just on autopilot.

Er... that doesn't work like that with me... :/

Guitar or mapping, same f#cking problem! We should set up a club between ourselves, let's call us the MA, Mappers Anonymous.

[scifista42]

Memfis said:

I just wanted to have a good time drawing crap, then this bastard brain came in and told me that my work sucks.

Ignore it and continue drawing 'crap' anyway. As long as you keep the creativity and interest to expand the map, keep doing so. As soon as you get a seemingly good idea how to improve an already made part of the map, do it - and if you don't get such an idea, nevermind. Maybe make your map to have it semi-finished on multiple places or in multiple ways (layout, texturing, detailing...), then only work on the part(s) you currently feel like working on, and feel free to neglect the other parts.

Anytime you feel that your work is crap, you can comfort yourself by saying: "It's OK, I can improve it anytime later". Even if you eventually don't do it. "Can" is the keyword to comfort yourself. See? ;)

[Memfis]

scifista42 said:

only work on the part(s) you currently feel like working on

So, on nothing. :D Good idea, I think I'll do just that!

[40oz]

You've probably heard this before, but listening to music, doom radio, audio books, or college lectures while mapping keeps you less focused on your inner voice that's telling you that you fucking suck at mapping all the time.

You might wanna take a moment to make a YouTube playlist that gives you several hours of listening content to silence you subconscious thoughts.

[purist]

Have a bit of faith, get the layout and mechanisms all done and hopefully everything falls into place a bit. To me, maps often feel uninspiring when they are just a few shapes stuck together or fully textured but disconnected areas. Things always feel better when you can run around the place and start seeing the big picture.

[GreyGhost]

Memfis said:

this bastard brain came in and told me that my work sucks.

Tell him to produce something better or STFU.

[scifista42]

You can view mapping like for example gardening. The activity is not for everyone, and not to be performed all-the-time-anytime. Some people do it just to clean their mind from important or other mindpower-demanding stuff. Some people do it out of enjoyment of the process, physical movements and way of thinking that the activity requires. Some people do it because they look forward to enjoy the result, like a beautiful sight or tasteful crops. Some people do it because they hope that the result will please somebody else, anyone who takes a view or anyone who tastes. Everything is fine. But whatever your motivations are, you know that the world won't collapse if you didn't succeed perfectly, and it won't turn upside-down even if you did. Neither human lives, nor their fates rely on the amount of perfectionism you put to your garden to make it look nice. And that's how you force perfectionism away if you want it.

[esselfortium]

It happens. It sucks. Sometime between 2007 and 2008 I spent about a year not being able to get anywhere with writing any music because I was in a slump and felt like everything I started was just crap. I'd try doing different things but I couldn't maintain the motivation to finish them.

Some of those aborted songs later ended up being recycled into new things, though. Working on things, even stuff you don't end up finishing, is still worthwhile because you're building up a catalog of pieces and ideas that you can pull from and reuse later. Sometimes a piece you weren't satisfied with a few years ago will have some section that is exactly what you need for what you're working on right now. So don't delete stuff! Keep a folder of all your crap and don't forget about it completely.

Around late 2011 I had another frustrating period of not being able to write. It seems to happen after I finish an album, probably because I end up totally burning myself out on the whole process by obsessing for months over getting everything Just Right, which generally turns out to be an impossible task. This time I was feeling totally inept because I had become very conscious of certain tendencies in my songwriting and would always get frustrated that I had unintentionally ended up yet again with something too similar to what I had done before.

I think I broke out of it thanks to two things: exposing myself to new inspiration that led me to question and rethink the entire way I had been structuring my songs, in a way that got me excited about the possibilities of songwriting again, and by getting away from the too-technical focus by writing MIDIs. Actually, writing MIDIs was helpful for another reason: because I was writing music to accompany specific levels rather than just writing aimlessly, it helped push me in different directions than I would have considered before.

Hopefully at least some of this is applicable to your mapping frustrations. I dunno! I think sometimes you've got to just ride it out and do something else and wait for the urge to strike.

[40oz]

Its also worth mentioning that being good at mapping is by no means hard to do. The formula for fun in doom is so simple. Give the player guns and ammo, give him monsters to kill. Give him health, a puzzle to solve, and introduce monsters in special ways. There's really not much more to it. You apparently have a strong enough and profound understanding of it, so perhaps you're simply running out of surprises. But bear in mind that the things you are probably getting hung up on as a mapper would most likely fly over the head of a player. Lately I haven't been as meticulous about texture alignment in the last couple years, because as it turns out, I've found that a lot of my favorite maps didn't really worry too much about it. The mappers focus was on more important things. So I've come to be more appreciative of things that are a more in-your-face part of the level design than the itty bitty details that make up the entire thing. Maybe you could look at some of your favorite mappers' level designs and observe it from a critical level, and take note of things you feel are important to mapping that this particular map rejected, and think about if that impacted whether or not you enjoyed playing the map.

[Memfis]

Ye, a long time ago I noticed that many cool wads are pretty shitty technically yet they manage to be charming somehow, but of course if I try to make something shitty then it feels just shitty and nothing else. Can't capture the magic feel of 90s, etc. But of course it can't be magical if I'm the author himself.

[40oz]

I'd say just go for it. You can look back on the map several years from now and instead of thinking "why does this map look like shit" you'll think "damn I was a pretty cool mapper!" That's what most of us on doomworld think about you anyway.

[esselfortium]

Memfis said:

Ye, a long time ago I noticed that many cool wads are pretty shitty technically yet they manage to be charming somehow, but of course if I try to make something shitty then it feels just shitty and nothing else. Can't capture the magic feel of 90s, etc. But of course it can't be magical if I'm the author himself.

Well, just trying to be "shitty" probably isn't going to capture the things you liked. :) Maybe try finding some specific aspects you enjoy about something and try to recapture those in something new. You're not going to recreate the same experience as what originally inspired you, but you'll have something new with some similarities.

[Allie]

I might be a newbie, but I've always found that being hung up or stressed out about perfection can sometimes be (momentarily) alleviated by giving yourself a challenge. Try limiting how much time you have to map for example, dare yourself to speedmap! Theoretically it's very easy to make a level in 90 minutes. Just place down a sector, a start, and an exit switch. But you'll probably find yourself adding in random, abstract geometry, and as much of it as you can, because you've got 90 minutes goddamn it and you want to see what you can do!

You can also try taking a break and playing some maps (not that you haven't tried this before.) Good choices would be simple '90s levels that cared about texture alignment (famous Serenity comes to mind) because I find they remind me that you can have simple and abstract geometry, yet still have a fun level at the end of it all; sometimes especially because of perfectionism during design.

At the end of the day, remember this quote: "This isn't the olympics, it's an industry!" Perfection is perfection, but the average player just wants to have a fun time.

[hex11]

Start mapping in DEU 5.21 and you'll quickly lose all those hangups, because they're quite frankly not compatible with that environment. Just being able to finish a playable map is a victory in itself. :-)

The only problem is it was designed for Doom 1.2 and prior, so doesn't have all linedef actions, etc. of later engines. It would be pretty easy to modify the code and add them though. An alternative is to use DETH, or maybe even Yadex without 3D preview, but that's starting to get into finicky business territory. DEU is just so plain jane and basic that you can't overcomplicate things unless you really try hard.

[kb1]

I was once told that there is an area called "good enough", that's somewhere inbetween crappy and perfect, and that I should strive for it. I haven't learned how to do it either. Having a big workload helps.

[Cupboard]

Drunkmapping: Coming to a theater near you. Make sure you have a 3-5 rooms drawn in advance, that way you don't get off on the wrong track. Once you start sloppily throwing down sectors, your brain begins to see "the whole" you are looking for. Come back later and do the detailing/thing placement when you are sober. Also, screw complicated linedef actions at the beginning of the map. They slow you down and limit your vision as to what your level *could* be instead of "wow I got this nice staircase and donut where the nukage disappears but the player has nowhere to go after that..."

[Memfis]

I still have this problem. I want to create a wad with many levels, but with every project after I make just one or two maps, I start worrying too much about their quality, about the consistency between them and so on. These worries are unpleasant and frustrating, because of them I don't enjoy working on the project anymore, and the only way to get rid of them that I know of is to abandon the project and to send what I've made so far to the /idgames archive. After that I become "clean" and I feel free and happy again for some time. Then I start another attempt at a big project and it all repeats. It's been a while since I watched Groundhog Day. That was a good movie.

[jute]

Can't you just string together a bunch of those maps into a megawad, inserting higher-tier weapons and enemies as the levels progress? I would happily play a Memfis megawad made this way.

[40oz]

I like your bite size mini episodes. If you want a bigger project, id definitely recommend pairing up with someone you think you can be compatible with. I know you said you prefer working independently but perhaps mapping with someone doesn't have to be so intertwined. Maybe if you make a map with a texture theme you like and PM it to someone you could ask them to help you on a project with maps that go with that theme. You both can work independently and compile the maps together in a little Memfis + Somebody split. As long as you're not that concerned about progression and narrative and whatever and find someone who you think competes with your level of mapping skill.

I could see a project featuring two similar mappers working independently on maps based on an agreed theme being really fun for the player. Bonus points if we can't tell the mappers maps apart.

[kb1]

Memfis said:

I still have this problem. I want to create a wad with many levels, but with every project after I make just one or two maps, I start worrying too much about their quality, about the consistency between them and so on. These worries are unpleasant and frustrating, because of them I don't enjoy working on the project anymore, and the only way to get rid of them that I know of is to abandon the project and to send what I've made so far to the /idgames archive. After that I become "clean" and I feel free and happy again for some time. Then I start another attempt at a big project and it all repeats. It's been a while since I watched Groundhog Day. That was a good movie.

I get your frustration. Here's the only way I get around it:
Make your maps releasable, each day. In other words, if you had to, you could stop development and release those maps in a completely playable state, in an hour or two. You know - all locked doors have gettable keys, all maps have reachable exits, there's enough health and ammo to complete each level, etc.

Go through this cutoff phase each night. It's roughly equivalent to "Don't go to bed angry with your partner. Kiss and make up each night."

Getting to a stopping point each day accomplishes some things: First of all, you're never more than an hour or two away from a working product. Also, you put a bound around "going off on a tangent", cause you'll have to tie up your loose ends that day. Furthermore, you don't have to remember to fix things you did a week/month ago - they'll already be fixed, cause you got them "releasable" the day you created them.

This advice may sound off-topic, but it's not. Adopting this work ethic provides you with total control over your perfection obsession, and this is how:
Let's create a range used to judge the quality of your maps, just measuring the areas that are causing you frustration:

Maybe a scale of 1 to 10, where level 1 maps are ugly single-texture square rooms 128 tall, with 255 lighting. Level 10 maps are beautiful maps, tweaked to perfection.

If you adopt the "cutoff, and make releasable" plan, all of your maps could be considered complete and playable, but maybe only Level 1 quality-wise. Now, some people would probably like your maps at Level 1. But, now, all of your remaining time spent on these maps can be devoted to perfection. You could spend a day getting all of your maps to Level 2, or, maybe one map from Level 1 to Level 5. And, you can still release it tomorrow! (if you had to)

You're always going to be you, so, you'll probably always obsess on perfection. But, if you work around the idea of creating releasables each day, you can spend as little, or as much time perfecting as you wish, and, when you're sick of it, it's ready to release! (There's no crunch at the end to get it working, you already did that).

The biggest benefit is that, now, perfecting the maps can be fun, because you don't need to feel like you're procrastinating on getting the map playable - it's already playable! See what I mean? Detailing is no longer a line item on a task list. You've already eaten your vegetables, now you can enjoy your cake!

My guess is that you enjoy perfecting your maps! But, that work should happen at the end, when the whole layout and scheme is deeply cemented in your brain, not while the concepts are still being developed. Of course trying to perfect too early will lead to frustration! Do it in the proper order, and I guarantee you that it will become fun again!

Hope this applies to you, and that it helps somewhat. Good luck!

[baja blast rd.]

I've tried that: building entire maps in a barebones-but-complete form, only the fights and layout and progression, and leaving the niceties like texturing and detailing 'til the end. But that second phase ended up being very tedious because it felt like homemaking work. I enjoyed the fights already, so it was like, "What's the point spending 3x more time than I spent on that on something that won't even help me enjoy the map that much more? But I have to do it, because I want my maps to look decent too." From what I can tell, Memfis's "I know what the map will be already, so why bother" urge will be even stronger than mine, so I'd warn against that process.

(I don't mean to suggest that it's a bad process. I actually use a modified version of it -- building maps one or two areas at a time, starting each area by laying down elements that directly affect gameplay and little else, making sure the fights in that area are exactly what I want, and then finally working on the visuals in that area. The "aesthetic" phase feels like exploration that way, not just lengthy cleanup work. I do some minimal work on visuals during the first stage, of course, but nothing too time-consuming.)

[Obsidian]

Maybe get a partner? A collaborative effort will help combat any worries you might have considering you'll have another person with their mapping ability and perspective helping you out.

[Rayziik]

In regards to the 2 phase process, I myself work exactly the opposite way. I design the map and the encounters alongside one another, usually in a concurrent fashion. Thereby establishing a good theme to work with and going piece by piece from there. The only part I skip on is multiplayer compatibility. I would recommend doing that if the other method isn't making results.

[RestlessRodent]

You could do a rolling releasees. If you are targetting a megawad or similar make some levels what you can before you get fizzled out, then release the partial work. Then when you get unfizzled you can continue work on it. With a partial release you can determine which maps are good and which maps need correcting.

You could also go into writing and describe your level editing process in notes to reflect upon yourself.

[Soundblock]

I find imposing limits to what the goals of the map is has helped, lately. Rather than trying to beat everyone's map ever made (Olympus Mons), try for a 300 lines map, a 10 sector map, vanilla limits or the like. Yer local trip to the woods.

Also, when it comes to texture alignments, work with alignment friendly textures, like gridded bricks, instead of nitpicky must-be-aligned monstrosities, like large rocky surfaces.

As for achieving the large project, it seems containing all the unreleased maps without fuzzing over them is proving impossible. F it. Put together a large set of previously released maps then, and keep producing byte sized maps that fit the evolving set. I don't think the interest garnered for the megawad is going to be very different even if maps have been on idgames before.

[Tristan]

40oz said:

but listening to music, doom radio, audio books, or college lectures while mapping keeps you less focused on your inner voice that's telling you that you fucking suck at mapping all the time.

I'll second this. I actually started and finished a room in a single sitting by listening to this album on a loop, that very rarely happens with me.