Shadow Warrior 2

[Touchdown]

Here's a similiar video from Angry Joe, but it's pretty much developer commentary so it's rather informative.

A couple of things. First: SW2 at launch is coming to PC and PS4, so no XO. The campaign is around 8h long, 12-15h if you're doing sidequests and then there are places where you can farm stuff (if you so desire) and you can do that forever. There are main locations and then there's wilderness that is procedurally generated. Game is coming this fall.

[DooM_RO]

This game is Open World, has a Diablo3/Borderlands-style loot system, dialogue trees. Not the sort of stuff you'd find in a classic shooter. It looks awesome but it's definitely not a classic shooter.

It also has procedurally generated levels in which you grind for loot. They say so in the Angry Joe video at 5:31. That is DEFINITELY not how classic shooters rewarded exploration.

And some people think "This shits all over Doom 4". LMAO!

[Touchdown]

Not all levels are procedurally generated, only the in-between parts and you're not forced to grind, it's an option. We also don't have much info on the loot system, you're just guessing. And who cares if it's not a 'classic shooter'? Are they even trying to sell it as a 'classic shooter'? Nope.

On a related note, I'm sick and tired of these bullshit arguments "this game is better! No! This game is better!" You know what I think? I think: screw you all, I'm gonna play both and enjoy both for what they are. I don't need to convince anyone that Game X is better than Game Y. 20 years later and we still have this stupid 1996 Duke3D vs Quake crap all over the Internet. Good to know that people are still on the same elementary school level as before. Instead of being happy that we have great games coming they just have to argue with one another and shit over everyone elses opinions.

[PureSlime]

Touchdown said:

20 years later and we still have this stupid 1996 Duke3D vs Quake crap all over the Internet. Good to know that people are still on the same elementary school level as before. Instead of being happy that we have great games coming they just have to argue with one another and shit over everyone elses opinions.

In online arguments, people tend to ignore the fact that different games can be great for different reasons, or that people could even like one as much as the other.

[DooM_RO]

Touchdown said:

Not all levels are procedurally generated, only the in-between parts and you're not forced to grind, it's an option. We also don't have much info on the loot system, you're just guessing. And who cares if it's not a 'classic shooter'? Are they even trying to sell it as a 'classic shooter'? Nope.

On a related note, I'm sick and tired of these bullshit arguments "this game is better! No! This game is better!" You know what I think? I think: screw you all, I'm gonna play both and enjoy both for what they are. I don't need to convince anyone that Game X is better than Game Y. 20 years later and we still have this stupid 1996 Duke3D vs Quake crap all over the Internet. Good to know that people are still on the same elementary school level as before. Instead of being happy that we have great games coming they just have to argue with one another and shit over everyone elses opinions.

You misunderstand me. Some people are pretending this game is "More Doom than Doom" or "Shits all over Doom" despite it having these features that are definitely NOT classic. I, unlike them, clearly see that this game is trying to do something very different from the classic formula. It's more like Farcry/Skyrim and that is OK but it's not better than Doom. Why does Doom get flak for taking a few things from other games but this game gets a free pass? Is it because it comes from a small Polish developer?

I fully agree with the second paragraph. This kind of attitude boils my blood.

[Avoozl]

Well there goes my hopes of SW2 being more like the original SW in the base gameplay mechanics, and map design and exploration unlike the previous remake.

[DooM_RO]

Avoozl said:

Well there goes my hopes of SW2 being more like the original SW in the base gameplay mechanics, and map design and exploration unlike the previous remake.

What is truly interesting is that no one seems to notice this. Why do people notice such things in Doom but not Shadow Warrior, which arguably departs more than Doom does.

Not that I care, since I will enjoy the game for what it is but people can be really strange.

[june gloom]

I came in expecting an argument over racism and cultural insensitivity (re: ethnic stereotyping in SW '97.) Instead I found an argument over Doom 2016 vs Shadow Warrior 2. It's less infuriating, but more stupid, so hard to say if it's better or not.

Game looks cool tho.

[TheMightyHeracross]

Way more people know about Doom than Shadow Warrior, which was even more obscure than Doom was before the reboot.

[Touchdown]

DooM_RO said:

What is truly interesting is that no one seems to notice this. Why do people notice such things in Doom but not Shadow Warrior, which arguably departs more than Doom does.

Not that I care, since I will enjoy the game for what it is but people can be really strange.

I cannot give you a direct answer to that but it doesn't take a genius to notice that at least the most vocal people hate everything related to id since DOOM3. I've been saying it long before the 2014 reveal that whatever direction DOOM4 picks, they'll hate it and lo and behold, they do. It's trendy to hate it. Because, you know, people are stupid.

Plus, everything that is not a giant company gets a free pass because big companies are evil. Or something.

Another reason in this particular case is that, let's be honest, nobody cared for the original SW. It's not some "sacred thing that can never be touched because otherwise it'll be ruined forever" like DOOM. Reinvent the character, enemies, gameplay, everything, it's fine because nobody cares for the original. With DOOM... try to not include some classic monster and the whole freaking Internet goes ballistic. In fact, as you can see, try to do anything with it and people go crazy.

dethtoll said:

I came in expecting an argument over racism and cultural insensitivity (re: ethnic stereotyping in SW '97.) Instead I found an argument over Doom 2016 vs Shadow Warrior 2. It's less infuriating, but more stupid, so hard to say if it's better or not.

...aaaand who exactly is arguing about that? Oh, nobody.

[june gloom]

Okay, a discussion about an argument. Whatever, it's late.

[Touchdown]

Ok, I'm generally not the one to gush over trinkets but holy crap, THIS is the boxed version in Poland:



The best part? It's priced at 109zl which is roughly $28 for a brand new game + DLC + poster + litograph + artbook + soundtrack + a cool box art. Fuck all of you other publishers, this is how you do it!

[AnonimVio]

Touchdown said:

The best part? It's priced at 109zl which is roughly $28 for a brand new game + DLC + poster + litograph + artbook + soundtrack + a cool box art. Fuck all of you other publishers, this is how you do it!

You haven't saw what they added to the press copies...

[MrSkeltal]

I spent 5 hours playing this yesterday. It's a pretty huge improvement over the first: Weapons + enemy reactions are excellent this time around and the levels are big and open-ended. It unintentionally manages to be more old school than Doom 2016 on the virtue that you can usually run away from enemy encounters to explore other areas and they'll chase you around the level.


Other than the hit and miss humour if you liked Doom 2016 you'll probably like this. Reviews have been quite good so far as well.

[MrDeAD1313]

Just picked this up today. Gonna play it more tonight, but I fired it up just to see what I was in for and after about 15 minutes (skipping cutsceens for after works restart of the game) I really like what I saw. It plays better than the last SW in my opinion. I honestly didn't care much for it when I played but may have to go back to it sometime. The graphics are pretty great as well. Definitely looking forward to digging into this over the weekend. If anyone wants to maybe join in a co-op game with me let me know ;)

[Swine & Roses]

Geez.. I preordered the game and missed its release.

[Doominator2]

I love to see that these big pc boxes are making a comeback!

[june gloom]

okay guys fess up which one of you is this "The Omega Prophet" dude?

[eta] oh haha the thread's been deleted, nevermind. It was pretty crazy tho

[MFG38]

>"procedural environments"

Aaaaaaaand off my wishlist thou shalt go.

Then again, I only enjoyed the 2013 Shadow Warrior so much to begin with, so no big loss on my part.

[Touchdown]

I've played it for 15h so far and I'm having a blast. SW2 is like an explosion of fun, blood, guts, guns, blades and mobility. Ridiculously over-the-top massacre with the sole purpose of being enjoyable. If seeing demons being sliced up with chainsaw katanas brings you a smile and traversing open and highly vertical environmnets via a combination of double jumping and dashing without stamina bars or fall damage sounds like a good time to you, you should definitively give it a go.

Re: open world / procedural environments.
They way it works is that you have an overworld map, your central hub town and a bunch of mission locations. They're not physically connected, you basically fast-travel between them. Levels are not really procedural, they're kind of like Diablo II/III environmnets, constructed out of pre-existing chunks + random weather / time of day (and they change everytime you visit). You have a mission, you can go wherever you want (though occasionally you have to find a key). Encounters are mostly accidental, a refreshing change from DOOM4 but there are some quest-related fights too. Once you're done with a quest you can still go back there to loot and get more Karma, though on Normal (2/4 difficulty level) it's not really necessary. Missions do not have a strict progression, they're mostly playgrounds for blowing stuff up. But they're also not huge, empty and boring like in open-world shooters.

As of right now my main complaints are that locations tend to repeat a lot so you'll see the same places many times, even between different missions seemingly located in different parts of the world. That and the fact that the techno locations are kind of underwhelming compared to wilderness. Or Hard Reset.

[AnonimVio]

This game is a mess, it's like they threw random ideas into one game and called it a day. Nothing works in this game, upgrades are useless, crafting is useless, weapon progression sucks, enemies are bullet sponges, random generation makes the game even more repetitive and boring, co-op is very basic and has no depth.

This game doesn't work as an RPG, doesn't work as an FPS, doesn't work as a game.

[jazzmaster9]

MFG38 said:

>"procedural environments"

Aaaaaaaand off my wishlist thou shalt go.

Then again, I only enjoyed the 2013 Shadow Warrior so much to begin with, so no big loss on my part.

Tbh. The levels are so seamless that you wouldn't even notice that they are randomly generated.
Just becausr some games do it in wrong does not make a feature automaticaly bad.

DooM_RO said:

This game is Open World, has a Diablo3/Borderlands-style loot system, dialogue trees. Not the sort of stuff you'd find in a classic shooter. It looks awesome but it's definitely not a classic shooter.

It also has procedurally generated levels in which you grind for loot. They say so in the Angry Joe video at 5:31. That is DEFINITELY not how classic shooters rewarded exploration.

And some people think "This shits all over Doom 4". LMAO!

Assuming that classic style shooters are somehow objectively better than modern shooters. Which it isnt.

[MFG38]

jazzmaster9 said:

Just becausr some games do it in wrong does not make a feature automaticaly bad.

That's not what I was implying anyway. I'm just not a big fan of randomly generated levels, the least in FPS games. Call me boring or whatever, but I prefer a lovingly crafted level I can memorize every pixel of over one put together by a randomness algorithm with no clear patterns to it.

[yakfak]

saw DraQu playing some of this online. the game-play looked nice with the dashing and quick weapon-changing but everything about the characters, the plot and the sense of humour was like nails on a chalkboard to me. like it was "played-for-cringes"

[Quagsire]

Touchdown said:

Whooo wanta some more Wang?

Uhhh

On topic anyways, I never really played the series. It does look neat though. I'd like to start with the older classic game.

[jazzmaster9]

MFG38 said:

That's not what I was implying anyway. I'm just not a big fan of randomly generated levels, the least in FPS games. Call me boring or whatever, but I prefer a lovingly crafted level I can memorize every pixel of over one put together by a randomness algorithm with no clear patterns to it.

Hand crafteds level are good for games with well crafted stories that emphasizes setting that mold gameplay with the narrative.
But an FPS-RPG such as this, the randomly generated levels provide replay value and makes things unpredictable, cuz I bet some people are gonna be replaying this to try out other weapons, Spells and playstyles.

[Lila Feuer]

Sgt Ender said:

Uhhh

On topic anyways, I never really played the series. It does look neat though. I'd like to start with the older classic game.

It's extremely different, it's literally Oriental Nukem, but nowhere near as good. It's not even that unique like Blood or Redneck Rampage was. Felt like a missed opportunity to make it something really special, but for what it is it's decent. The 2013 reboot is like an oriental version of Painkiller, except better IMO.

[Avoozl]

The fact that SWR tried to emulate Painkiller still wore off for me pretty fast, it eventually just bored me to tears.

[Koko Ricky]

Cyanosis said:

It's extremely different, it's literally Oriental Nukem, but nowhere near as good. It's not even that unique like Blood or Redneck Rampage was. Felt like a missed opportunity to make it something really special, but for what it is it's decent.

Yea this is pretty much how I feel. I actually really loved the shareware version, but when I finally got around to getting the retail version, I was really underwhelmed. Enemy roster is pretty so-so and the maps become too "gamey" whereas Duke 3D and Blood found that wonderful balance between being mazes and feeling like real places.

[Lila Feuer]

I actually really like the levels in SW '97, but as you said the enemy cast is underwhelming (and poorly balanced).