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Zulk RS

Truly Unique Icon of Sin Levels?

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Usually when you fire up a 30-32 Map megawad (Doom-II), you can expect one thing: The Icon of Sin at the end as the Final Boss.

My Question is: Are there any wads that made the Icon of Sin battle truly unique and memorable? I'm not too good at explaining this, but I'll give it my best shot.

I don't mean good level design. I mean changing the "It's a demon that just makes demons" thing. Maybe add something a bit more on top of all that. Perhaps make the IoS a powerful Mid-boss (like the Cyberdemon from Doom-1) istead of a final boss. Maybe add some crushers to look like it's trying to crush you with it's giant hands. Or maybe add a different monster other than the Romero Head as the "brain" to serve whatever purpose.

Are there any wads like this.

P.S: I'm still new to mapping so I'm not sure if making the Icon of Sin is even possible on other Maps.

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Zulk-RS said:

P.S: I'm still new to mapping so I'm not sure if making the Icon of Sin is even possible on other Maps.

Spoiler

Requiem MAP23 exists.

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Sergeant Mark IV made an Icon boss with DECORATE a little while back: as completely different Icon battles go, that's the first one that springs to mind. There's also Valiant's final boss and a few final bosses I've made in DeHackEd for various megawads, but those aren't really Icon battles per se. As for making Icons outside of MAP30, all you have to do is make damn sure the monsters don't get stuck together: use a conveyer belt or have them teleport into the map from a seperate area, whatever works for you.

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Hadephobia MAP20.

I mean, it's still a big monster spitter while you're trying to run around and do other things, but I liked that the "other things" involved gathering keys and finding scientists to kill instead of just figuring out how to get up an elevator and slam rockets into an Icon's skull.

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To plug shamelessly, Scourge, whilst not being a full 32-map megaWAD (using ZDoom it is a 22-map megaWAD, with a scripted alternative to the BOSSBACK monster gallery as a 23rd map), does have an Icon of Sin finale as MAP21, which has an outer ring filling up with enemies whilst the player has to fight through two series of switches to open up access to a final switch that activates a huge crusher that "plugs the hole from Hell" (killing a Romero head).

To be less self-centred, the 1994 Tune-Up Challenge has a very interesting MAP30 that uses the teleporting from conveyors method mentioned above to slowly fill a map with enemies whilst you're trying to work through a sequence of keys, switches and the like. The pressure piles up very quickly, making it very exciting, I thought.

LilWhiteMouse did an interesting map for ZDoom (Hellspawn?) that ended on an Icon of Sin driven escape sequence, I think. It's been ages since I played it though, so I've linked that as a just-in-case.

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Speed of Doom has a pretty badass MAP30. It's on the level of slaughtermap but it's so epic.

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Well, Other than the decorate made by Sergeant Mark IV, what about an Ios battle that:

-Has no mandatory switch hunting (switches can be there to access various sections of the arena or ammo piles, but not mandatory unless you run out of ammo or health)

-Instead of a Romero head in the IoS, how about a modified revenant with say, 3000HP that is hidden the same way the Romero head is from player sight. It creates the illusion that the IoS is firing homing missiles at you form its brain.

-Instead of the said revenant being placed in such a way that only rockets can damage it, it's placed so that anything from pistol bullets to BFG blasts can hit it if you aim your ranged weapon at the brain. Block monster lines can be used to make sure the revenant doesn't move around to much.

-No puzzle like game-play. Direct combat against the icon of sin while monsters it spawns surround you and attack you from all sides. The arena can be riddled with pits and crushers for added challenge.


The reason I'm being so specific is that I'm planning on making something like this in a future (1-3 months max) megawad project. I wanted to know about IoS battles for inspiration and to give myself some idea on how to go about in making such a battle.

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The Golden Souls has a unique take on the Icon of Sin as a two-stage boss. After a first classical step were you have to shoot it repeatedly (fortunately you don't need to solve an aiming puzzle for that because it has a lot of health) while it is spawning enemies, there's a second stage where it detaches from the wall and flies around on little bat wings, spitting gigantic bouncing fireballs at you.

There's also an Icon of Sin level in ZPack where you have to kill monsters that are basically operating the corpse of the icon as a puppet. There's a baron in each hand and a spider mastermind in the head. Also there's a finite limit to the number of monsters that will invade the area (they're teleported from a big cell, not spawned) so if you take too long to figure out how to fight it you'll still be able to win the level anyway.

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@Zulk-RS: Your ideas sound like they would be best achieved by a regular custom boss monster, rather than a mounted wall monster like the IOS. Besides, IOS fights tend to be annoying for most players anyway, no matter whether you inovate the concept or stay loyal to the origin. It's been quite overdone over the years. But even if you want a stationary final boss, preferably allow the player to damage him without gimmicks based on waiting (for a lift, door, some event) or too precise positioning, because that's what I think is the annoying aspect of IOS fights.

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Zulk-RS said:

Well, Other than the decorate made by Sergeant Mark IV, what about an Ios battle that:

-Has no mandatory switch hunting (switches can be there to access various sections of the arena or ammo piles, but not mandatory unless you run out of ammo or health)

-Instead of a Romero head in the IoS, how about a modified revenant with say, 3000HP that is hidden the same way the Romero head is from player sight. It creates the illusion that the IoS is firing homing missiles at you form its brain.

-Instead of the said revenant being placed in such a way that only rockets can damage it, it's placed so that anything from pistol bullets to BFG blasts can hit it if you aim your ranged weapon at the brain. Block monster lines can be used to make sure the revenant doesn't move around to much.

-No puzzle like game-play. Direct combat against the icon of sin while monsters it spawns surround you and attack you from all sides. The arena can be riddled with pits and crushers for added challenge.


The reason I'm being so specific is that I'm planning on making something like this in a future (1-3 months max) megawad project. I wanted to know about IoS battles for inspiration and to give myself some idea on how to go about in making such a battle.

Nearest I can give you to that is the ZPack map E2M0 that Gez mentioned (and I made :D ) where the 4th section is a bit like what you've described, although it's a 5000hp Spider Mastermind and several waves of attacks, which you can disable as the fight wears on, plus the Mastermind is shielded by the Icon face half of the time, so it still has an element of timing.


I've seen a few classics (like Fragport) that use the Romero head as the health points for a reactor or the like - no spawning monsters usually, just something satisfying to blow up. Basically means you can stick it at the end of a normal level - something I have in mind for a map one day.

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scifista42 said:

@Zulk-RS: Your ideas sound like they would be best achieved by a regular custom boss monster, rather than a mounted wall monster like the IOS. Besides, IOS fights tend to be annoying for most players anyway, no matter whether you inovate the concept or stay loyal to the origin. It's been quite overdone over the years. But even if you want a stationary final boss, preferably allow the player to damage him without gimmicks based on waiting (for a lift, door, some event) or too precise positioning, because that's what I think is the annoying aspect of IOS fights.


Actually, this is how I was planning the whole thing to go down:

After playing a small-medium gothic tech-base map, you enter a small narrow door with a really low ceiling (such that the player can't jump but can move without crouching) and enter a big room facing directly at the IoS.

5-10 crushers scattered around the arena activate, the door closes behind you and the Ios says it's usual dialogue. It has a modified monster with 3000HP-5000HP in the position I described the revenant in.

I want my megawad to require free look, jumping and crouching. So the moment the door closes behind you, you can aim your weapon of choice directly at the brain and hold down the fire button.

The only "waiting" you'll be doing is running from blind spots in the map back to the 70% of the map from where you can shoot the IoS.

There are a few switches that lower lifts. But like I said before, you'll only need to press them if you happen to run out of health or ammo or just feel you'll fight better from higher ground.

As for the custom bosses, I'll use those too. But according to the plot I came up with, the IoS is guarding a gate to Hell. You'll have to kill it to reach Hell. I'm thinking of putting IoS as boss that appears in the middle of the game. But it's definitely NOT the final boss.

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