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Linguica

Snap(map)chat

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Well, screenshot-scrutinizing at least.



Snapmap(tm)!



So it looks like you choose prefab parts which are all designed to fit together along their edge-holes.



We can see a selection of parts here. Also we can "organize by portal count" which... I assume means how many connections a prefab piece has to other pieces.



This "transfer area" prefab is a whole friggin multistory room. That seems... like a lot of prefab to have people use, and see, over and over and over again. We can see there's a whole "large rooms" category too, and this appears to be what counts as a "large" room in Doom 4. No nuts.wad remakes for you I guess.



On the right we can see that you can switch between different 2D levels, and you have prefab parts that can take you from one level to the next. So it's "true 3D" level editing and not 2.5D like it looked from a cursory glance.



Placing objects seems pretty standard...



Looks like we have... a null hazard, fire damage, a laser beam, SMALL fire damage, radiation, poison, and... toxic gas different from poison?



Whee



Wheeeee



See, looks very 2.5D-esque. The more things change...



Also notice the "GRAPHICS" bar filling up in the corner... which I assume tells you how much level geometry you're allowed to place?



They also showed off some of the basic scripting. Here's someone selecting a control panel...



...and dragging an action to open a nearby door or something. Like linedefs and sector tags!



It's a "box trigger"? OK.



An example of slightly more advanced scripting I guess.



And finally, someone scripting the ole "pick up item to teleport in demon" routine, fresh off its many appearances in Doom 3.

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This looks like a more advanced version of the level editor that the Time Splitters game use. As for the limitation to map size, are we sure that isn't something that only applies to the console version? I also remember there being a limit to how big you could make your maps for the Time Splitters game, but hopefully the PC version will have no such limitation.

I also wonder if there will also be a conventional level editor.

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Linguica said:

And finally, someone scripting the ole "pick up item to teleport in demon" routine, fresh off its many appearances in Doom 3.

An action that classic Doom desperately needed. I have to use tricks to accomplish the same thing in classic Doom (i.e. cross a linedef right in front of the item which then lowers/raises a floor/ceiling tied to the same sector which releases a monster into an area where it can cross a teleport linedef and end up where you want it to. Lotta work for a simple "teleport X thing at Y location when player does Z."

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Hopefully people can make their own prefabs or maybe Id can make more prefabs after the game is released and put them online for people to use.

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Yep just like timesplitters map editor with halo 3d obj placement. Looks good I'll be playing around with that a lot. Hope u can build u own prefab area an bring into game so u can have new areas, will help with seeing the same rooms over an over

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Well, it looks easy-to-use enough. I could see myself spending several hours fucking around with it just to see what sorts of stuff I could do.

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doom_is_great said:

Hopefully people can make their own prefabs or maybe Id can make more prefabs after the game is released and put them online for people to use.


It was said in the presentation that the editor allows for full customization of the items. I believe they only showed the "easy mode" to make it clear anyone will be able to make a map.

Naturally, more skilled people will be able to use "advanced mode" and create whatever they wish.

A perfect solution if you ask me.

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I really hope you're right, Patrol1985. I don't take it for granted yet, but I really hope in it.

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I'm super happy they went this route. The TES route.

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I really don't see the point of making anything with this unless it allows fully custom geometry. I personally have no interest in rearranging rooms and corridors from the actual game with new "thing placement". And honestly since this is cross-platform and probably on some sort of cloud bullshit, fully custom visual stuff might not be allowed at all. They'd have to store and let people download actual new geometry, UVmaps, textures, and not just an arrangement of existing pieces. But maybe there's some sort of universal converter into the game file format which could make it an easier task.

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They should make a random map generator since it has prefabs.

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If one is not able to reasonably recreate E1M1 using this system... I'll say it's not quite that grandiosely useful, but I can imagine it would be fun to sit down with a friend or two and pump out some horrible clusterfucks just for fun. Sort of like Smash Bros. U's stage creator.

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So this is what a console editor looks like. It looks worse than doombuilder.

Do you guys think we see "moar roooms" -dlc for the editor?

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illuknisaa said:

So this is what a console editor looks like. It looks worse than doombuilder.

I still think you're trolling, but I agree that Doom Builder looks better than this orthogonal prefab connector. But I don't condemn it yet, it looks somewhat interesting anyway, and I'd welcome any possibility to mod the game. The more flexibly, the better, of course.

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hardcore_gamer said:

This looks like a more advanced version of the level editor that the Time Splitters game use.


Pretty much what I was thinking, and it's about time someone did it again. The MapMaker in TimeSplitters was awesome.

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To be fair, even if they released a proper level editor I don't think I would ever use it. I remember making some custom levels for Doom 3, and they took forever to make and still kinda looked like ass. Making proper levels for modern games from ground-up just takes too long. At least in this way I can live my fantasy of of making Doom 4 levels without spending months doing it only to end up with something that probably isn't very good anyway.

Also, don't underestimate the importance of thing placement in a level. Even if the actual rooms are prefabs it might very well be possible to create areas that look completely new if the actual rooms are fairly empty and they are then filled with all kinds of editable and stationary things that dramatically alter the layout of the room.

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hardcore_gamer said:

Also, don't underestimate the importance of thing placement in a level. Even if the actual rooms are prefabs it might very well be possible to create areas that look completely new if the actual rooms are fairly empty and they are then filled with all kinds of editable and stationary things that dramatically alter the layout of the room.

Doesn't sound like a very thrilling way to do.

Honestly it almost feels like in the end this editor will be more limiting than the old dooms' engine.

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Antroid said:

Doesn't sound like a very thrilling way to do.


Thrilling or not thrilling, how do you think the Unreal engine works :)

What I want to know is if the editor will allow for hell levels.

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hardcore_gamer said:

Thrilling or not thrilling, how do you think the Unreal engine works :)


Obviously game environments are modular nowadays. But normally you are allowed to import your own resources because you aren't working the engine through some kind of stupid iphony editor, but rather with as much access as possible, most of the time up to source code.

Besides, not all games do whole rooms as modules like TES games like to. Often the floor, the walls and ceiling and everything is constructed of much smaller pieces that in no way conform to any grid. This snapmap is pretty much a toy railroad compared to engineering an automobile and then driving it (yes I know people don't generally do that...).

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hardcore_gamer said:

Thrilling or not thrilling, how do you think the Unreal engine works :)

What I want to know is if the editor will allow for hell levels.


That's exactly what I was thinking

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geo said:

They should make a random map generator since it has prefabs.


I hope not. That's my idea for my game :D in Unreal Engine 4.

Portal 2 had a similar map editor that was very limited but it still leads to some very fun content.

I hope they at least have the option of using a full level editor as well.

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illuknisaa said:

So this is what a console editor looks like. It looks worse than doombuilder.


Except that Doom Builder is an actual map editor. This shit looks more like a "map assembler".

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Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Except that Doom Builder is an actual map editor. This shit looks more like a "map assembler".

I'm not trolling, just asking... are you perhaps pissed off that Doom IV uses Fatalities Finishers?

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potnop said:

I hope not. That's my idea for my game :D in Unreal Engine 4.


Beat you to it a few months ago. Then I gave it to a friend that's done nothing with it after begging for it. Whatever. I don't see his project getting released.

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Yeah this reminds me of the TimeSplitters map editor like hardcore_gamer said. Which is entirely a good thing IMHO. Making maps for those game never got old. But they better have a fucking high "graphics limit" or whatever memory cache they allow you to fill until the map is full. And they should add "no draw" lines so that entire portions of the map aren't even drawn until a player crosses a certain line. That's basic and it should be in the final program

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TheCupboard said:

But they better have a fucking high "graphics limit" or whatever memory cache they allow you to fill until the map is full.


Don't hold your breath. Since both PC and console versions of the game will upload the maps to the same online service so that others can play it is very probable that the PC version won't allow for bigger maps because otherwise the console crowd won't be able to download them.

That said, I am not sure if this really matters that much. Doom's style of gameplay has always favored maps of short to medium size. I personally can't stand very long Doom maps. A good map should last no more than 10-20 min tops. Anything beyond that and it better be able to find some way to stay fresh throughout. And even then, I would still rather just play a couple of short but interesting maps instead of a single very long one.

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So it's a map editor for console users? That's their business... But do we gonna get proper editors (in style of GtkRadiant) or similar?

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CorSair said:

So it's a map editor for console users? That's their business... But do we gonna get proper editors (in style of GtkRadiant) or similar?


Not likely. They seem pretty serious about creating a cross-console community for the game. Giving PC users more advanced editing tools would probably split the community which would defeat the point. But who knows.

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Just a hunch, but I think someone probably wants to create more intricate levels than what the current system offers, but it probably takes time to do so. That, and how it is received on PC.

How Id or Zenimax is going to react, is a different matter.

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