state of the browser wars

[captmellow]

This all pertains to those of us who design pages here at DW, so it is somewhat relelvant. The following is MHO, but here goes:

I used to be anti-MSIE, it was part of the whole anti-M$ thing. I was running PC-DOS, & then tried to run os/2 warp 3, which didn't handle my cobbled-together machine so well. I stuck w/ Netscape to "fight the power", & was seriously bummed when they got hammered by the free MSIE.

Now, however, I have discovered how intolerant Netscape is of missing tags. This can be good (forces carefully crafted html) or bad (if you don't carefully test w/ Netscape, you will run the risk of posting pages that will show up blank for Netscape users).

I am also discovering the same thing w/ css.

Since Netscape sold out to AOL, I no longer perceive Netscape as the "underdog good-guys" that I used to. Also, I don't know how many of you are aware that in recent weeks/months, Netscape has announced that they are no longer focusing on being a browser company, but rather a media company, helping facilitate AOL-ish stuff. This is not surprising, given the fact that they are property of AOL. This also has for me swept away the last vestige of sympathy I held for them. And don't forget that I have always wanted to be a Netscape proponent.

Now, I am ready to all-out deprecate Netscape as obsolete. Surf around some w3-related links, & you will perceive stirrings of similar sentiment elsewhere. I have seen Fanatic begin to do so, & my reasoning is, "why not follow suit?" IE just renders everything better. The gecko engine does better than the v4 Netscape, but it still is inferior. For best compatibility, it seems like IE is the better choice. & no doubt M$ has worked hard to seed all these factors, as they always do, but here we are in a post-Netsape world now.

I'd have to say, if you want to use a "rebel" browser these days, use Opera rather than Netscape. It has some very cool features, like the whole mouse gesturing thing, which I've become so accustomed to now that going back to another browser feels very cumbersome.

[Lüt]

Netscape was obsolete in 1998. But it's great that you've finally done the right thing, congratulations. Mind you, I am not a fan of any late versions of IE, 5.0 was possibly the worst browser I've used and 5.5 is just a hog, not quite to the typical MS Bloatware standards, but getting there fast. I stick with 4.0, it's all you could possibly need.

[DooMBoy]

Netscape. Heh.
I haven't tried Netscape in 4 years. I just stick with Microsoft Internet Explorer.

[Linguica]

Netscape eats ass. Back in the days of 3.0 it was the king, but today it's a bloated, ugly, stupid browser to use that got its ass royally kicked by MSIE.

[Arioch]

Running IE 5.5sp1 here. It rules.

Tried Mozilla ... too slow, crash prone, very inconsistent UI (and nonstandard interfaces, to boot). Couldn't live with it, now it's gone off my hard drive.

Tried Opera. Fairly fast, I like the MDI interface. If you use it however, check out all those extra blank lines it likes to put into the forum pages, as well as its stupid handling of images in tables (check out that Doomworld logo). And it has an ad banner.

IE does what I need it to do, when I need to do it, and is lightning fast. There's no reason for me to switch to anything else at this point.

[fraggle]

As a linux user, one of the problems (in my opinion) is the lack of a decent browser. There are ports of Netscape v3 and v4 and opera as well as the open source offerings such as Konqueror.

I currently use Mozilla which is an open source effort derived from Netscape code. Its rather slow, buggy and bloated but usable and I get the feeling that in the recent versions it is starting to get better. I also think it better than Netscape 4 which is awful. I would still kill for a browser as good as Internet Explorer however.

[Guest Fanatic]

I agree with Ling.

IE 3 was trash, Netscape was king. When IE 4.x came out, that was the end of all else.

Mozilla, Netscape, and Opera are all ok browsers, but they are by no means good to rely on. I gave up designing for Netscape and all of it's quirks, and I have made some of the most powerful websites easily.

It really is sad. Most of the companies we do business with no longer support Netscape because of the costs of having to spend development time on them, epsecially with advanced web applications.

My work web based applications actually won't let you view the site if you're using anything other than IE. Better to hide it then to let you see the mess Netscape makes of it.

[ShadyXMR]

Lynx all the way baby!

[Zeratul 982]

I use IE 5.5.

[Lüt]

My work web based applications actually won't let you view the site if you're using anything other than IE. Better to hide it then to let you see the mess Netscape makes of it.

Hey, are these some kinda codes I can get as well? I'd really like these.

Also, the only reason the Millennium site didn't go up like 6 months ago was because I haven't been arsed to finish the Netscape version.

[AirRaid]

Uhhh......

/Me checks my IE version.....

I'm using IE 5.5 at the mo, And I'm having no problems with it.
Ling has the right idea. Nutscrape sucks.

[deadnail]

Oh hell yeah, back in 96 when we were having many browsers around the system we came to a firm conclusion:

ALL web browsers eat ass, the trick is to find the one that eats the least amount of ass.

At that time it was Netscape 3 Gold.

Netscape 4 was a pathetic JOKE, we switched over to MSIE and since then I've been quite happy with my decision, as a web designer.

The big features that caused me to switch:
#1 Proper display of tables. I knew my damn table tags were correct but I didn't know why they weren't showing up. Because every complex site uses tables just about you get a much smoother a prettier glide around the Internet too.
#2 More complete HTML tags. I could get background pictures in tables. PNG images were (basically) supported. I get a few dozen tags at the sacrifice of the useless blink? Good deal.
#3 CSS. I've tried the very latest Netscape beta with it's supposed CSS2 and it STILL doesn't do what IE4 did. That's just pathetic.

Did you ever try the Netscape editor? God it was rediculous, the code in it was SO damn messy it's amazing that any page made with it ever looked even half-way decent.

The fall of Netscape can be directly attributed to it's assimilation into AOL. Everything AOL touches turns to shit and I'm worried about WinAMP. I remember reading articles about Netscape when AOL took over... all the big people were either fired or quit outright.

I've tried Opera too and I must say that I was not impressed in the least. Its been a few years since I tried it, though.

The browser I'm interested in right now is Konqueror, but I'll have to get myself a copy of Mandrake before I can put it through its paces. =)

[MACVILWHORE]

[spam]

ED: What's that smell????


EDDY: Your stinky pants??

[/spam]

[fodders]

Using IE6 at moment and outlook 6 seems ok

[DoOmEr4LiFe]

i agree deadnail...all web browsers suck...ive tried most of them and i still havent come up with one i actually like to use...

[pilottobombadier]

You know, I have no problem with IE5, actually. I run a slower machine, and I find it beats the piss out of 3 and 4 easy. I just find that it loads pages faster, which is what I want. And a slow machine, it is certianly noticable. Although my "slow" machine is a Pmmx 233, 32 megs of NVRam, 2 meg OAK vid card and C-Media soundcard and a 56k flex modem (my dad uses V90 service, e.g. I get da shaft). Oh, and I then put a Voodoo 2 in it to speed up gaming awhile back, and it helps with some games, but it don't help with performance overall.

[diluted]

u shouldnt complain one fuckin bit. try usin a p120 with some generic ass vid card from 94 sound card from then also. A FUCKIN P120! i knew they made p100 and p133 but where the hell did they git 120? anywho it sucks. and ur lucky.

[AirRaid]

They didn't make P120's. It's a 100, 133 or 166 clocked up (or down).

Oh yeah. I have a cheap shitty £13 C-Media sound card, and it ain't that bad. It has hardware EAX support.

[Grul]

I'm glad that not all here automatically dislike products just because MS made them. I've heard the local linux boys here complain long enough about how inferior MS products are compared to linux products, even when they aren't.

[Lüt]

They didn't make P120's.

Then what are these three chips I have in my drawer?

[deadnail]

Doritos?

[fodders]

Resurrection time :)

[deadnail]

Well as long as it's back up here I might as well add a few things.

First of all, IE6 is done with the testing and it should be out next Sunday. They removed a lot of the features that beta testers were complaining about so it should be pretty streamlined. Also, IE is no longer being bundled with Windoze, Microsoft is caving in. =)

Second of all, Konqueror is basically like Netscape 4 but being integrated into KDE. It's table code and CSS implementation is one helluva joke. Grr.

[læmænt]

LYNX