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TheWizard

Baron of Hell

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First off, I'm sorry if this has been posted, but I don't think it has.

Going by the trailer and demos, it looks like the hell knight is kind of small and looks very Doom 3 like.

But we all saw this guy....


Upon spotting the Pinky like a few others have, he was right there, in the distance. They hid him behind motion blur and bright muzzle flashes.




As you can see, he's fucking huge, he's towering over those Doom 3 looking guys. This might explain why those hell knights weren't throwing green flames in the demo...because they they want to have a bigger difference between hell knights and barons of hell.

See for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH9mIf9hXTI

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Wow. It's good idea to put more differences between Hellknight and Baron Of Hell. Hellknight from Doom 3 was awesome, most succesful enemy in this game, but classic version is obviously far better and one of the most popular enemies in Doom 1-2 with Cacodemon and Pinky. IMHO.

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Leaving my whining aside, if the barons and the pinkys are those from the pictures we are discussing, what I think is a fact, and adding to the matter the new look of the cacodemon, I'm pleased to see some return to the roots regarding to the enemies.

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Nice spot! They did say in the post-showcase interview that they hid another baddie somewhere in the background almost as an easter egg to find. I honestly assumed it was the floating ball things, cacodemons or no (why did they just fly off anyway?), but if this is true then it's cool.

I admit I am a little worried about the demons' design. The worst offender for me is the cyber-demon, but I feel like in general they are moving from creepy and/or satanic demons from Doom1+2 towards generic fantasy demons as seen in every fantasy game ever. The cyber stands out for some reason, as the most "generic fantasy"-looking out of all of them (well, apart from his rocket launcher I guess). I think his horns are a big contributor, like on creepy/satanic demons you'd see pretty much regular horns, maybe even straight up animal horns (like a bull's or or a goat's), and IMO that is much more interesting than the boring old "rocky hide + thousands of spikes" trope. It almost makes the demons (well, again, mainly the cyber) look cartoony and non-threatening, despite all the blood everywhere and stuff. The fact that nearly all of the extreme violence in the game seems to be happening TO the demons and not inflicted by them only reinforces their non-spookiness.

Although some designs are still fantastic. Revvie, caco, those one eyed zombie things (the latter especially just seems way too creative for this game somehow - like it's humans mutating into some hellish bullshit, but not by growing a horn or something, but rather by being twisted into something wrong and creepy).

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I'm not sure but I think the zombies might be transforming into Imps. I'm probably wrong but I'm convinced by the design of the cyclops zombies. They're losing their eyes, their elongated limbs.

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I was so sure the zombies just had a gaping hole in the head and not cyclopian eye. Need to check the hd screens again when I get on computer.

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Antroid said:

I admit I am a little worried about the demons' design. The worst offender for me is the cyber-demon, but I feel like in general they are moving from creepy and/or satanic demons from Doom1+2 towards generic fantasy demons as seen in every fantasy game ever.


That's my feeling too. If I was the producer for this game, the moment that I would have seen the artist's designs for the cybie, I would sent them back to the drawing board and told them to make it look more like the original and more satanic looking. The zombies also look a bit too stroggish. Makes me wonder how they are going to differentiate the stroggs from the zombies in Doom if they ever decide to make a Quake game within the strogg universe.

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Antroid said:

The fact that nearly all of the extreme violence in the game seems to be happening TO the demons and not inflicted by them only reinforces their non-spookiness.

This is a very good point. The elaborate fatalities are a big part of what's causing that impression, I think: when Doomguy rips out a mancubus's heart and feeds it to itself, it just makes him look like a psycho. Just kill the damn thing, don't play with it.

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doom_is_great said:

The zombies also look a bit too stroggish.

Reminds me of the Sarge boss in Doom 3. I actually have nothing against this. I never really felt much about the strogg (probably because I found all the quakes they were in super boring), but the concept of fusing humans (and demons) with cyber parts in grotesque ways seems entirely fitting for Doom. Heck, the demons were doing it before Q2 came about.

esselfortium said:

This is a very good point. The elaborate fatalities are a big part of what's causing that impression, I think: when Doomguy rips out a mancubus's heart and feeds it to itself, it just makes him look like a psycho. Just kill the damn thing, don't play with it.

Reminds me of similar fatalities in Serious Sam 3. Only in there it fits the character. So when Sam rips off the head off their version of a Mancubus and kisses it on the lips before tossing it away, it seems appropriate.

But the psycho thing... the part which made me feel like that in the videos was ripping off the dead guy's arm to use it on that lock. I mean, it's an entirely reasonable course of action (although I find it strange that a half-rotten looking arm works for that computer), but the way he casually ripped that arm off (and how the audience cheered) made even me slightly uncomfortable, in a "do we really think this is normal, much less neat and cool" way.

I'd honestly be fine if the marine gradually became psychotic through the whole game. It would make sense that after killing a lot of demons and being in this super alien situation for a long time he'd snap. But that mill place was apparently like level 2 or something. The marine seemed like he was on some sort of agression-enhancing drug, like in jacob's ladder.

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Same here, and many people might not realize how much of an impact it's made on video games too (starting with inspiring a bunch of shit in silent hill)...

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Antroid said:

But the psycho thing... the part which made me feel like that in the videos was ripping off the dead guy's arm to use it on that lock. I mean, it's an entirely reasonable course of action (although I find it strange that a half-rotten looking arm works for that computer), but the way he casually ripped that arm off (and how the audience cheered) made even me slightly uncomfortable, in a "do we really think this is normal, much less neat and cool" way.

Oh yeah, that weirded me the hell out, too.

Jaxxoon R said:

It's all hints at who the real demons is.

When you put it that way, maybe canonizing Repercussions of Evil wouldn't be so bad...

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Antroid said:

but the way he casually ripped that arm off (and how the audience cheered) made even me slightly uncomfortable, in a "do we really think this is normal, much less neat and cool" way.

I'm kind of hoping all the cheering was from people recognizing it from the Doom Bible as opposed to general bloodlust.

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Jaxxoon R said:

I'm kind of hoping all the cheering was from people recognizing it from the Doom Bible as opposed to general bloodlust.

Hahaha. Yeah, that's remotely plausible. /s

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If I were in Doomguy's situation I'd give little regard to the sanctity of the dead and more on my objective. If you cared about every corpse in a war you'd get nowhere quick.

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Technician said:

If I were in Doomguy's situation I'd give little regard to the sanctity of the dead and more on my objective. If you cared about every corpse in a war you'd get nowhere quick.


Yeah, when you put it like that it makes total sense ingame. For me it was mainly the audience cheering that felt wrong. Like, obviously it'd be the thing he had to do in the situation, but I would hope he wasn't supposed to find any sick pleasure in doing that. The animation could've showed maybe a second of hesitation or something. But it's totally a nitpick and silly to even complain about. In the game, when I play it, it has no way of being an issue.

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It's a Doom game. It's supposed to be bloody, gory, and pretty disturbing. I hope they have a lot more of that stuff in the game. Not necessarily ripping up corpses, but having to find inventive ways of solving problems like a locked door. Part of Doom's fun was problem solving and solving puzzles. Hopefully Id hasn't forgotten that.

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I loved the Hell Knight of DooM 3 like I loved the Cyberdemon of DooM 1/2. I also loved the Baron of Hell for the same reason. I'm glad they might be keeping the best of both worlds.

I kind of wish it was a bit more slender though. When it's this giant thick thing it looks very generic and unimaginative. It's huuuge so must have lots of health...

The hell knight in Doom 3, barons of hell, and Cyberdemon were absolutely ripped and full of detail, but not huge and thick. They looked more impressive that way, like a work of art, not a generic unremarkable and unrecognizeable thick giant monster. I think it's the same way in Killing Floor 2. The Fleshpound and Skrake in the first game were slender and muscular looking, while the KF2 counterparts are just giant and bulky and I feel less impressed by them.

Then again, I haven't seen the baron of hell in detail, only it's silhouette there in those screenshots. It can be huge but ripped and detailed, and in my opinion be exactly what I'm looking for. If it's a rock monster looking thing like the Cyberdemon ended up with just giant smooth bulky muscles instead of detailed little sinews everywhere, then meh...

This is awesome


Even this random image I found from what looks like Garrys mod or something looks close to what I like:

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Piper Maru said:

Since when was Doomguy a sensitive and caring individual?

Dunno, he didn't quite seem deranged in the old games, and he felt like the kind of guy who'd at least feel a tiny bit bad about being disrespectful to the dead. I guess without a face in the HUD it's harder to show. Maybe the idea of what the doom 4 marine is has been more influenced by that spokesperson being all HELL YEAH VIOLENCE KILLING DEMONS and the audience cheering for the arm rip and such.

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Well I wasn't aware the original Doomguy had personality or character development. I suppose he was crying on the inside after yanking the poor guys arm off...demons from HELL included.

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Piper Maru said:

Well I wasn't aware the original Doomguy had personality or character development. I suppose he was crying on the inside after yanking the poor guys arm off...demons from HELL included.

Well, I'm used to thinking that the hud face is a good representation of him. On edge, but clearly still mostly sane - only slipping into a manic grin when he finds a new gun. The serene look he gets while invulnerable is also telling - I imagine the new doomguy-with-attitude would probably be grinning like a madman if he were to turn temporarily invincible.

I mean, it's laughable, but after playing doom and seeing that face for so long you kinda get an idea of how you imagine him to be, you know?

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Well he seemed pretty calm in the original...except for the OUCH face.

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I don't particularly feel disturbed seeing Doomguy disemboweling creatures who have the exact same priority as you: wanting you dead, only I assume demons are even less moralistic than the most evil human.

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