Doom 64 on Steam petition?

[Blastfrog]

Quasar said:

We don't need any more "help" from people throwing the stuff we do at companies on our behalf so that they can turn around and make threats or force us to monetize it in ways that do not benefit us.

Please let this horrid idea die.

I originally felt this way about Strife before anything was publicly known about Veteran Edition, but that particular partnership turned out to be pretty beneficial to everyone. Night Dive seem like a pretty good group.

That being said, being against commercial "resurrections" is still my default position. Sometimes it's better to let the community be something's unofficial stewards than to get all bogged down with corporate bureaucracy. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution and not risk jeopardizing that.

[Buckshot]

DOOM 64 was perfect, and DOOM 64 EX does everything right that it should do. The more I think about it... There's no reason to pursue this outside of a already well done source port adaption.

It'd probably just raise unwanted attention from Bethesda to currently available D64 ports as others have already stated. Also, aside from Midway/id/Bethesda all having to be involved... no one's yet mentioned that this is a Nintendo exclusive, and they very likely were a stakeholder in its licensing. Seeing how they treat the ROM and emulation scenes with lawsuits and legal threats, we certainly don't want their attention coming into play.

[234233424]

Buckshot said:

Sequentially speaking, its technically DOOM #64.

I'm not counting Hell Revealed as Doom #17

[Enjay]

Sodaholic said:

Night Dive seem like a pretty good group.

Yeah, I really like the way they followed up on their promise of a GOG release so speedily. :/

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

Enjay said:

Yeah, I really like the way they followed up on their promise of a GOG release so speedily. :/

This. They have no faith from me until they start making good on their promises.

[CacoDoomer]

If they do re release Doom 64, they should reinsert the Spider Mastermind and Arch-Vile.

[The 1st Gamer]

*clears throat

I... I... I LOVE YOU DOOM 64!

*drops mic and runs out of auditorium

[geo]

I think its Nintendo you'd have more of a problem from. They'd have to "remake" Doom 64 before it can appear on another platform like Bionic Commando and Duck Tales. Nintendo doesn't seem as okay with having ports on PC like Microsoft and Sony are. Funny they never see PC as competition while Nintendo sees PC as "its not us."

[DooM_RO]

I don't understand one thing. Why did Id make it a Nintendo exclusive? Seems pretty antithetical to their beliefs. An Id game that's not on PC? What's up with that?

[Buckshot]

DooM_RO said:

I don't understand one thing. Why did Id make it a Nintendo exclusive? Seems pretty antithetical to their beliefs. An Id game that's not on PC? What's up with that?

[DooM_RO]

Seriously, I am kind of shocked no one has thought about this before. The fathers of PC gaming making a console-exclusive Doom? This is the kind of stuff that should have ignited the internet but it didn't. Kind of puzzling.

[Quasar]

ETTiNGRiNDER said:

This. They have no faith from me until they start making good on their promises.

The GoG release is under progress; that is all I can say about it. It has been delayed by Galaxy. I am not involved in its development personally other than as a technical advisor (which ain't a paying title :P )

[Buckshot]

DooM_RO said:

Seriously, I am kind of shocked no one has thought about this before. The fathers of PC gaming making a console-exclusive Doom? This is the kind of stuff that should have ignited the internet but it didn't. Kind of puzzling.

Back then, everyone wasn't so opinionated, and the internet was still in it's early years. All we cared about was getting another DOOM on a shiny new Nintendo console.

Ahhh. How the internet has destroyed us socially.

[Quasar]

DooM_RO said:

Seriously, I am kind of shocked no one has thought about this before. The fathers of PC gaming making a console-exclusive Doom? This is the kind of stuff that should have ignited the internet but it didn't. Kind of puzzling.

Let's have some historical perspective, please.

1. The Internet was not like it is now back then. Things didn't "ignite" pretty much ever. Usenet was still the largest discussion forum available. It was composed of mature, non-reactionary intellectuals, mostly university profs and students. The days before the Eternal September were a golden time indeed.

2. This was *before* console exclusive was a dirty word. This was back when PCs were only just starting to be able to do more than consoles (Quake just came out the year before, and the PlayStation was outperforming most PCs in 1996 before that point). In fact, console exclusives tended to be fucking awesome back then. At least, if you owned the console they were for, otherwise they sucked :P

[Da Werecat]

Quasar said:

At least, if you owned the console they were for, otherwise they sucked :P

At least that didn't change. :)

[Blzut3]

Having a completely different game on the consoles was also pretty normal. Consider Descent Maximum and to most extent Quake 2 N64. Collecting all the different versions used to be worth it.

I would be surprised if Nintendo held any rights to the game. Unless someone has evidence to the contrary, I assume the console exclusivity is strictly a midway decision (I will point out that the box doesn't read "only for Nintendo"). Wasn't the story that Doom 64 exists because by the time of porting Doom to the N64 the game was pretty old and would have to compete with Quake, so they decided to essentially modernize the game in order to appeal to a larger market?

[Krazov]

esselfortium said:

...given what happened with Powerslave EX...

Thank you for pointing this precious thing for me. I am “Powerslave” afficiando, and I have been waiting for years (ages, actually) for such port.

[Quasar]

Blzut3 said:

Wasn't the story that Doom 64 exists because by the time of porting Doom to the N64 the game was pretty old and would have to compete with Quake, so they decided to essentially modernize the game in order to appeal to a larger market?

I've not ever heard such, just that Williams/Midway wanted to do something fresh and expansive with the Doom IP after doing a relatively straight port for PSX (though granting it its own super-dark aesthetic that would carry over in the process).

The project started as "The Absolution," and from what we know from a discussion between FirebrandX and programmer Aaron Seeler, this game was going to be a journey through many different cultures' conceptions of Hell (from behind the POV of a shotgun, naturally). I don't have any idea what they meant by it precisely, but Tim Heydelaar and Randy Estrella both described the initial project idea as going pretty far outside the Doom mold. I don't know if this would have meant extensive story, cutscenes, intensive puzzle solving ala Hexen maybe? Who knows, can only speculate.

Most of the pseudo-Aztec/Mayan/Egyptian theme textures that carry over into the final game's Hell are there because of this initial concept, and are probably its only surviving legacy. That it was going to be "not a straight port" was definitely always a primary goal though.

[Enjay]

Quasar said:

The GoG release is under progress; that is all I can say about it. It has been delayed by Galaxy. I am not involved in its development personally other than as a technical advisor (which ain't a paying title :P )

Good to know that it's still coming at least. I will buy it when it's on GOG even though I already have a disc copy of the original.

[scalliano]

As Blzut said, D64 wasn't the only id game that was console-exclusive. The N64 version of Quake II was a completely new campaign with original levels and could arguably be called the game's third official missionpack.

Actually, how's about a PC port of that?

*hides*

[geo]

DooM_RO said:

I don't understand one thing. Why did Id make it a Nintendo exclusive? Seems pretty antithetical to their beliefs. An Id game that's not on PC? What's up with that?

Or someone figured we can either shit out the same game 2 years after everyone had it on a different platform and it won't sell or we can make something fresh. SNES Doom was 2 years old at that point.

According to wiki Doom 64 started development in late 1994. So it took 2 - 3 years to develop.

I'm happy the Absolution name was dropped.

Now it seems like everyone is happy having a PC perfect port on every system rather than putting time, effort and money into advertising something fresh even if its not *new* like Doom 4 is. Imagine having a Doom X... an upgraded Doom 64-ish exclusive for XBLA.

I'll also pitch my idea of Doom Wii with bubble guns and plushy monsters that turn happy when they're "defeated."

[Blzut3]

scalliano said:

completely new

There is one level from the base game and one level from The Reckoning. I didn't recognize anything from Ground Zero during my playthrough, but I would assume if they took one level from the other two missions they took something from there? Regardless though, it does indeed play like a third mission pack.

Edit: Oh yeah and of course one level from the Playstation. :P

[geo]

GBA got an original version of Duke Nukem. I remember the first playthrough being pretty cool, but trying to play it now, I just can't get into it.

[DooM_RO]

Quasar said:

I've not ever heard such, just that Williams/Midway wanted to do something fresh and expansive with the Doom IP after doing a relatively straight port for PSX (though granting it its own super-dark aesthetic that would carry over in the process).

The project started as "The Absolution," and from what we know from a discussion between FirebrandX and programmer Aaron Seeler, this game was going to be a journey through many different cultures' conceptions of Hell (from behind the POV of a shotgun, naturally). I don't have any idea what they meant by it precisely, but Tim Heydelaar and Randy Estrella both described the initial project idea as going pretty far outside the Doom mold. I don't know if this would have meant extensive story, cutscenes, intensive puzzle solving ala Hexen maybe? Who knows, can only speculate.

Most of the pseudo-Aztec/Mayan/Egyptian theme textures that carry over into the final game's Hell are there because of this initial concept, and are probably its only surviving legacy. That it was going to be "not a straight port" was definitely always a primary goal though.

I've always wanted to explore that concept too. Medieval hell in castles, cathedrals and torture chambers, meso-american hell and high-tech hell with flesh and technology cobbled together.

[Nems]

Quasar said:

I've not ever heard such, just that Williams/Midway wanted to do something fresh and expansive with the Doom IP after doing a relatively straight port for PSX (though granting it its own super-dark aesthetic that would carry over in the process).

The project started as "The Absolution," and from what we know from a discussion between FirebrandX and programmer Aaron Seeler, this game was going to be a journey through many different cultures' conceptions of Hell (from behind the POV of a shotgun, naturally). I don't have any idea what they meant by it precisely, but Tim Heydelaar and Randy Estrella both described the initial project idea as going pretty far outside the Doom mold. I don't know if this would have meant extensive story, cutscenes, intensive puzzle solving ala Hexen maybe? Who knows, can only speculate.

Most of the pseudo-Aztec/Mayan/Egyptian theme textures that carry over into the final game's Hell are there because of this initial concept, and are probably its only surviving legacy. That it was going to be "not a straight port" was definitely always a primary goal though.

A megaWAD where the player went through many different cultures' conceptions of Hell would be something I'd play the fuck out of. :D

[Avoozl]

scalliano said:

As Blzut said, D64 wasn't the only id game that was console-exclusive. The N64 version of Quake II was a completely new campaign with original levels and could arguably be called the game's third official missionpack.

I found some of the maps in Quake II 64 looked very similar to some of the Quake II mission pack maps, and certain areas of a few maps were similarly designed to a few of the original Quake II maps.

[Da Werecat]

geo said:

Now it seems like everyone is happy having a PC perfect port on every system rather than putting time, effort and money into advertising something fresh even if its not *new* like Doom 4 is. Imagine having a Doom X... an upgraded Doom 64-ish exclusive for XBLA.

Doom is a classic now, so people are focused on its preservation rather than making something new on an obsolete engine.

Although a new campaign on a heavily modified id Tech 1 would undenyably be cool for a Doom fan.

DooM_RO said:

Medieval hell in castles, cathedrals and torture chambers, meso-american hell and high-tech hell with flesh and technology cobbled together.

Clive Barker's Jericho has a similar concept. It has a sort of a city that devours a slice of reality every time a specific bloody ritual is performed, so it has modern, medieval, antique layers. Nothing futuristic though. And a lot of people consider the mechanics of this game subpar.

Painkiller also has a very diverse interpretation of limbo and hell, with levels set in medieval cathedrals, modern cities, etc. Again, nothing futuristic.

[scalliano]

Blzut3 said:

There is one level from the base game and one level from The Reckoning. I didn't recognize anything from Ground Zero during my playthrough, but I would assume if they took one level from the other two missions they took something from there? Regardless though, it does indeed play like a third mission pack.

Edit: Oh yeah and of course one level from the Playstation. :P

I've played through all of Q2 in all its forms and while I knew about the PSX and base Q2 levels, I never noticed the Reckoning level (I remembered the train and that's about it). That said, it's been ages since I played through the missionpacks and my memories are a bit fuzzy. It's worth noting that the Q2 level in particular is heavily edited, much like a lot of the maps in Xbox Doom 3. Still, overall IMO it's still significantly different to be worthy of a port.

[Antroid]

Da Werecat said:

Clive Barker's Jericho has a similar concept. It has a sort of a city that devours a slice of reality every time a specific bloody ritual is performed, so it has modern, medieval, antique layers. Nothing futuristic though. And a lot of people consider the mechanics of this game subpar.

Dude Jericho is freaking amazing. Love that game. It has some flaws, but the atmosphere and the biblical sort of mood it creates are unparalleled. I also really enjoy the gameplay for the most part. I believe the game's immensely underrated.
To expand a bit on it's setting, it has a modern section, a WW2 section, a crusades era section, an ancient rome section, and a shorter ancient sumeria section.

Oh and I also think that the "multiple cultures' hells" would be an awesome idea. Too bad it's probably mostly impossible to gather information on how most other cultures depicted/imagined hell. And if there actually is enough info on that, you'd have to work pretty hard on making a solid stylistic idea to carry multiple levels and be unique and recognizable.

[scifista42]

Antroid said:

Too bad it's probably mostly impossible to gather information on how most other cultures depicted/imagined hell.

Not only not impossible, it's right there on the internet. Put "hell in cultures" into Google and see how wrong you are - even popular articles exist on the topic - and that's before you focus on finding more information about each of the results.