Wad creator looking for testers and creative advice

[Fonze]

*Edit*

Mods please do not close this thread. I am still serious about the project, but I have put it on the back burner while I do some things for the community. Will resume progress after my birthday, Aug. 2nd. (no I will not ask for any birthday maps, lol)

Oh, also, MAP01 will look different in the next version on HNTR and HMP through the magic of teleporters. I haven't begun that process yet because I have more important things to do for the community, but it shouldn't take long once I do. One more thing, MAP01 will have a more interesting-looking grey area, as it would be easy for me to add in a few things to break up the monotony of that area. The new sections for HMP and HNTR will likely begin where the green maze otherwise starts.

1.4 is the current version! Please give it a shot and let me know what you think. I edited in here that zDoom or better is required (Mapspots, optional jumping) and UV is not for the first play through.

IWad required: TNT

Reequired port(s): zDoom. GzDoom and zandronum can be used as well, but make certain things look cheesy. Jumping is needed for certain secrets, but never to finish levels. Mapspots used.

UV and possibly even HMP will be locked from the start in a later version.

UV is only for expert players already familiar with the maps, start on HNTR or HMP. It is best, though, to just start on HNTR as certain levels play through completely differently on each difficulty and gun progression differs as well.

Couple questions for those who do test it:

What would you do to spice up the visuals of MAP01 without sacrificing the disorientation and purposeful lack of landmarks within the maze portions?

In MAP02 on UV difficulty (though no one should play UV on first playthrough) there is a shotgunner on a ledge in the room out the window directly in front of the start location that you do not reach til later, from the opposite end. I have never been able to kill him and make him drop his gun where it is reachable. Can any of y'all accomplish this? If so, I must know so I can change it.

Will not be playable in vanilla and old Doom ports due to tutti frutti effects. Wondering if it's possible to use any 64 pixel tall as middle wall texture (I grass2 for tree leaves). If this is not a problem or a fix is available, I will fix the rest of the tutti fruitti issues.

Meant to have a 1994 feel, but with a few special things not available back then.

The link at the bottom of this post is the most current version.
Thank you for your help and above all else, have fun with these maps :)
*Edit End*

Hello everyone! I'm new here, so I can't say I've done much to keep this great community going, but I was hoping I could get some help from the Doom community to help make my megawad as bad ass as it can be. Unfortunately, Doom isn't popular around here with all the new shooters spoiling our eyes and I've grown tired of having to bribe friends and family to test my maps lol. So I would like to ask any players that love to try new things and give creative criticism for some help testing what I have made. As a megawad, it will eventually have 32 maps, right now I have 4 done, with a fifth on the way. One of my goals is to have certain themes to each level; sometimes simple things like scenery, sometimes more abstract things like different approaches or differences in the map based on difficulty, not involving monsters or items. Also, I have continuity in mind, with both level ends/starts matching up and guns given at what times (ie. the first few levels give few guns, look for a backpack maybe in the secret level much later). Also, the guns given and what time they are given are completely different on the differing difficulties. This is to give me more control over the experience of the game and to give players something to look forward to in later maps, instead of just giving everything up front (like in theater, there has to be some drama, lol). If this sounds appealing to anyone, please let me know and we'll go from there. :)
Sorry for rambling,
Vinny

*Edit*
Screenshots here:
http://imgur.com/gallery/bn6rj
Wad and txt files in zipped folder here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ykije531jxws7q/DFLoE1.4.zip?dl=0

Level descriptions:
MAP01: punching map in tight corridors in a base. Low lighting and few landmarks in the main maze to lead to disorientation.
MAP02: end of base leading to excavations. Super secret shotgun in the starting box room you can get immediately.
MAP03: follows river through a canyon, features 2 different paths to take depending on whether you stealth through the beginning or go in guns blazing.
MAP04: *warning* wormhole detected. A map that I promise all will enjoy, UV is not recommended for anyone but the Doom Gods and this map's creator.

[Jaxxoon R]

I like you already, even if it's only because of your name.

Remember to have lots of height variation or you'll never hear the end of it. And I guess post a link to whatever you want playtesting. I dunno that's just kind of what people usually do first around here. Oh, screenshots help too. Yeah, it's like, you gotta put it right there to tantalize people, you know? Like all those pictures of food they have on the windows at MCDonalds. Only these will actually resemble the things you get, yeah?

It's all good.

[Fonze]

Yeah man, I got you, that was one thing I forgot to mention, I'm kinda dumb with the uploading part to this, and I noticed that this site doesn't want partially completed megawads submitted, so idk where to go with that. As far as screenies, those are no problem. I'll have some up here in an hour if my phone will do it. If not, tomorrow when I reformat hard drive lol.
As for height variation, it depends on what the level calls for. Some have more than others. The first level is a straight up maze that will prolly only be enjoyed by Tyson enthusiasts (like I mentioned earlier with the whole guns not given from start). The second level is where it moves to a more traditional doom layout, (stereotypical box room to a base set-up, leading to excavation. The third level follows a radioactive river in a canyon cave, with the fourth going a bit further, but with a sick twist akin to the name of the map it shares in the tnt iwad. I will say though, thank you for the first tip! I will have to keep it in mind as I create so I don't make anything to dull looking.

[scifista42]

Fonze said:

and I noticed that this site doesn't want partially completed megawads submitted, so idk where to go with that.

No, you are confusing this site with the /idgames archive. The /idgames archive is the place where you upload your finished stuff - and by the way, the archive itself is not part of Doomworld, Doomworld only runs a front end. But uploading your work in progress on common file hosting sites and then posting links to this forum and expecting feedback, that's absolutely valid and everyone does it. :)

[nxGangrel]

I'm not necessarily one for long paragraphs so I'll keep it short: For your design look for inspiration, stick with a style or theme you would like to accomplish (it can be a theme for the wad or one theme per level), and just have fun with your level design.

When I make levels, I usually play other wads and even the Iwads sometimes for inspiration for design or a detail, I also have a kinda style with my levels, that being a fetish for blue, black, and silver tech, as well as an amount of back tracking.

I've said this before though, I don't have that much credibility since I haven't released anything yet.

Also if you need a level tester or even need a map or two let me know, I may be open for both jobs.

[Fonze]

To scifista42:
I see that, but from what I understand doomworld doesn't have their own ftp, so to go through doomworld would mean to go with idgames archive. What would be a good site for this type of thing?
To nxGangrel:
I agree that playing other wads is key for getting inspiration, I like No Rest for the Living for a source of inspiration cause it's maps just scare the hell outta me, (like vivisection) lol. I haven't been here long, but I've been playing through some player created wads too which are really cool. I'll definitely take you up on that offer, though. I really appreciate the help. And I'll extend that same offer out to you whenever you're ready for testing on your maps.

As for the screenies, im a little confused as to how to put them in here. I saw the rules about size and whatnot, but not being completely up to date on electronic sharing is killing me here (like posting them somewhere else and then linking them or whatever). Like I said, I'm dumb. I'm hesitant to make a video on my cell phone and upload that to youtube, as my cell sucks at staying in focus. Though if worse comes to worse I may upload a video of screenshots because I'm like a retarded MacGyver lol.

[scifista42]

Use a public image hosting site like Imgur to upload screenshots, and a public file hosting site like Mediafire or Dropbox to upload your wads, then just post links here.

[gaspe]

Fonze said:

As for the screenies, im a little confused as to how to put them in here. I saw the rules about size and whatnot, but not being completely up to date on electronic sharing is killing me here (like posting them somewhere else and then linking them or whatever).

You can use thumbnails, every image sharing site should have them, I think. Personally I use imgur, the largest thumbnails fit the rules for posting images, and if someone wants to see full size he just click on it and it's done. Also imgur provides you the complete code to post the image here in the forums.

[Fonze]

I guess this'll be a test then:
http://imgur.com/gallery/bn6rj
Hope this works

[joe-ilya]

Classic themes you've got there, just give some height variation to the flat areas.

[Walter confetti]

Cool screenshots, i'm not a real fan of the GRAYRAD sign in the canyon section...

[Whymes5]

In the fifth screenshot, the texture on the steps needs to be changed if you don't want older ZDoom users or ZDaemon users to see tutti fruitti there. New ZDoom versions can display flats as textures, but the old ones can't. It looks to me like you pasted the floor texture to the vertical walls of the stairs. If you actually added a new texture already, then ignore this. If you don't want to change it to a new texture, just make a 128x64 version of that flat, then copy it in paint and add it to the wad file with something like SLADE or XWE. I hope this makes sense. The levels look alright, actually the first screenshot looks pretty awful but the rest is pretty alright. Good start.

EDIT: Similarly, in the fourth screenshot, that little window with the texture between it seems like it will bleed through the floor, even in newer versions of ZDoom. Middle texture's can't exceed the height of the sector they're in, otherwise the texture bleeds into the floor. To fix this, divide the window into two sectors (one on each side of the middle texture), and reduce the lighting by 1 on one side. This makes DOOM divide it into two seperate drawed sectors, which stops the bleeding effect (it will treat the middle texture like a lower or upper then). For example, the light on one side should be 127 and 128 on another side. Another way is to just make a tiny sector 1 pixel wide on both sides and just drop it down to the height of the texture. It's not really noticeable since it's just 1 pixel. But that's a bit harder to explain and the first way is easier. Finally, you could just make a cropped version of that texture and add it to the wad again. If this is what you did already, ignore my comments.

Then again, if you know both of these already then ignore it, they are just common mistakes people have.

I just realized you didn't specifically say it was a ZDoom project, sorry I kept bringing it up. So if it's actually a vanilla project (it seems like it should be compatible with it so far), then these are some critical errors you'll want to fix.

I might playtest it.

[Fonze]

Lotta great replies and thoughts coming in, thanks and keep 'em coming :)

To Joe: thanks man, I hope they look cool and I'll throw some extra height variations in random places that won't break my maps, just for fun ;)

To Walter: that's ok, it's a trap that most people won't see anyway, unless they're running their asses off lol. I could throw some little things in there just for the few that do though. As for the sign itself, that level revolves mostly around that river and falling in means embarassing death. I put the signs so people would know not to jump in. As for the aesthetics of the signs themselves with a cement background in a rock canyon, it's a military base so some sections could have been drilled out to post signs. Also, Hell (me) has taken over and Satan likes to mess with your brain (now I just need some cherubs).

To Whymes: thank you for that info. I have had no problems with zdoom version as of a year ago, nor gzdoom or zandronum for that matter. To be honest, I'm not sure that vanilla players will be able to play these maps as I sometimes use scripts (rarely now, but more everyday), I tend to push things to their limits, which I'm sure zdoom has further limits than vanilla, and although it is not required to play through and beat any map going any direction, jumping is helpful and needed for some secrets (typically the obvious ones, like the shotgun in lvl 2). Oh and with the height variations in certain rooms mouse look is just about a must. Having said that, I will go back and change the floor textures on the wall portions of those stairs and add in the 1 pixel line to the window (I've had to do that before, I was too dumb to realize about the lighting lol, which I will now have to work on as well). There will undoubtedly be some that I miss though in other areas which is why testing by others at their computers with different set ups than mine is important. If you do play test it when I post it up here tomorrow morning though, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks again for the comments and keep 'em comin!

[Whymes5]

Well, you either have to put the texture in a 2 pixel wide hole that goes down (1 pixel on each side) and leave the inside texture of the hole untextured, OR break it into two sectors and change either the floor/ceiling height or lighting on one side (the lighting isn't noticeable so obviously this is the easiest way), OR just make the actual texture smaller.

And whether or not there's problems, I think it's just good practice to do things that support everything. But this is coming from someone who plays ZDaemon pretty much exclusively, even for SP(which is currently based on ZDoom 1.23, several years old), so yeah. A couple of other things that are just good practice: 1. Always make flats 64x64, 2. Always make custom textures a power of 8, like 128x64, or 128x128, etc. Patches don't have to be, but the textures you use the patches in do. Anyways, not sure how much of this you know already or not >.>

So anyways, since we want to test this, where's the download link? Are we missing something?

EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I do dig the very vanilla-esque design of the maps. Just like I said, in rooms like the first one you're gonna want to add little ledges, windows, or something. And change the walls so it's not square orthogonic shapes. People don't like square rooms. Even support beams might help a bit, just don't spam them or make them get in the player's way.

[Fonze]

Nice. To answer what you said about how much I know, I guess this'll do for an answer: retarded MacGyver. I'm a diy'er and unfortunately because of that I am limited to what I encounter. When I encounter a problem I can always find a fix or a workaround. But if a problem doesn't show for me, well it's kinda like when your mom first taught you about cleaning the soap scum in the shower, but you can't see it, so you scrub away and then go to her with a dumb look like, "is it good, I can't tell?" lol. So, certainly, the more info yall give me, regardless of whether I learned it or not yet, is just great. And I agree that it would be best if it were playable on as many platforms as possible, so others testing it is a must. As for the fix you're talking about though, I understand most of it, being farmiliar enough with the doombuilder lingo, but when you say divide the window into 2 sectors, one on either side of the middle texture, I get lost a bit. Matter of fact, I thought you were talking about the inside texture of it, but now I'm not sure which texture you're refering to (like I said, it doesn't show up for me as an error). We may have to rewind a bit lol.

I haven't done too much in creating new textures yet, though I will have to in order to make the ICoS level (I'm thinking dante's 9th circle of Hell with the frozen lake, Satan in middle with 3 heads as just another sinner)

The download link will be tomorrow morning, 6am est, so I have time to address what has already been brought up, so y'all that do test won't have to see (hopefully) any bleeding textures or that first basic room that people seem to hate lol. I'll prolly go ahead and add like a reception desk near the door and some chairs to make it feel more habitable (if you don't mind demons as your neighbors).

[Whymes5]

Here, I whipped up a quick demo wad to see what I mean. You see one of the windows has the texture bleeding into the floor because it's too tall, right?

Here: http://www.theultimatedoom.com/download/WINDOWEXAMPLE.zip

[Fonze]

Ah of course, I was looking at wrong screenshot. Now I'm on the same page as you. Yes, I did encounter that when I made that room, and it had been fixed with the ole one pixel trough. Experimenting around I see what you meant about the lighting option; I like it. After removing the trough to test this I won't be adding it back as this is just as good and uses fewer lines. Thank you bro.

[Fonze]

The wait is over! Sorry it took so long fellas; I should've had everything in the op, but stupid me doesn't cope well with technology and all that. Few things I should mention here:
First, I made a .txt file for a reason; I'd highly recommend reading it (walkthru is optional, obviously).
Second, UV difficulty was made for me, just because you can beat UV in the main iWads doesn't mean you'll be able to beat it here. My maps are also not designed to be speedran, though I'm sure the Doom Gods would have few troubles. A basic rule of thumb: in easy, hp and ammo (depending) are no problem. In normal (hmp), hp is no problem, ammo aside from pistol is. In hard (UV), hp and ammo are constantly a problem.
Third, if you are brave enough to play on UV and make it to lvl 2, let me know if you successfully knock off the shotgunner's gun (you'll know what I'm talking about) as that would break my maps. The point of that shotgunner is to mess with you, not give you a shotgun (I'm a dick, I know).
Last, if you absolutely hate level 1, that's fine. Skip it and give the more normal maps a shot since you've already come this far for me.
With that out of the way, and without further bs, here's the link from drop box (hoping it works):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/co7n6z4qpmr7ln0/DFLoE1.3.zip?dl=0

[Super Mighty G]

Fonze said:

Last, if you absolutely hate level 1, that's fine.

So...

I absolutely hate level 1. It's a big maze with only a berserk so I assume the idea is to punch everything be it cacodemon, hellknight or BARON. Not only is it a slog it looks painfully monotonous. Giving the player a Megasphere and an Invul is not an excuse to force them to punch a room full of Knights and Barons. I felt no desire to attempt it again when I finally died. I'm also not inclined to play further with this kind of opener. Honestly you should throw this map out and replace it with something else.

Sorry for the harshness but it needs to be said.

[Fonze]

Let me start by saying thank you for testing for me.
:( well bro I'm sorry to hear that you don't like MAP01: Fists of Rubber, Mobs of Steel. As I said before, even if you hate MAP01, since you've come this far for me, please go a little further and try the rest. Also, even if you hate it and that's all that you really have to say about it, your oppinion is valuable to me and thank you for posting it here. There are some minor things that could certainly be changed in any map, but the overall concepts will stay the same. Idk to be honest what you want me to say tho as you basically just told me it looks boring and you hate it. I can't attest to the second part, but boring it is not (and I wouldn't call it monotonous because you really don't have time to think about that when you play it). I knew lvl 1 would be... controversial, to say the least. But I've made no effort to hide what it is here or in my txts; it's a punching map. I'll concede that it may be better as a standalone or a secret map, but at the same time it had to be done very specifically in several areas to suit a special purpose.
First, it had to be MAP01. One of my goals is to have at least one level devoted to each instrument of punishment, and I love punching shit. I also don't want to take away players' guns and stuff they worked (maybe) hard for later in the game just to force a fist map (i could also accomplish this with a level or two of no ammo pickups, but that would wind up different for each player and some would get totally fucked).
Second, it's meant to be mostly featureless in the maze portions for the specific purpose of being disorienting. The only real features are in rooms not part of the maze, save the lights for a small amount of guidance. This is so it will be fun for players like me who can't help but remember level layouts and stuff. I want to get lost once in a while too and the expansiveness of the green maze allows for both getting lost and monsters coming from so many places that even after you clear something, you're scared it may still have some mobs lurking around.
Third, in reference to enemies and encounters: like I said, I love to punch shit. How can you have a punching map without barons and cacodemons (I could have put straight chaingunners if youd prefer that)? The map contains almost exclusively projectile enemies for that reason (save easy mode, which is mostly zombiemen so you can use pistol and not punch much). Let me say, too, that any excuse is a good excuse for punching a baron (you may have been pissed at the end, if you made it that far, when a cyberdemon pops out). The most trouble I have is with the cacodemons cause they're a bit harder to predict than the barons (what with their slower attack animation, or at least more telegraphed animation). The invul spheres are put in to give you time to get your bearings and let the monsters fight it out. Frankly, if you use all invul spheres, those portions of the map become almost too easy. Monster infighting is of course key when you have no or low bullets, which on UV ammo is a problem. Which leads me to my last point...
Last, (I think) this map was put in here for almost tutorial-like reasons. If you can punch your way through this map, later on, if you ever run out of bullets, all will not be lost. You will be comfortable enough with punching a baron to death (with berserk packs which I put in almost every map in case the ammo situation goes to Hell). I would never have someone punch shit without it, that's just stupid.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this puts us on same page.
Thank you all, the help and thoughts are greatly appreciated.

[Super Mighty G]

To be clear, it was boring visually. Sprawling tight hallways have never been a popular map element in the community. If you're set on the concept my advice would be to make the hallways at least 96 units wide instead of 64 and put in some more spacious rooms along the maze paths to break up the monotony.

If you're going to put fewer health pickups in a scenario like this put them in a safer place not behind Hell Knights. Honestly you should be more forgiving with the health since you have no weapons to rely on. Using health/armor bonus pickups could go a long way.

The green maze areas shouldn't have low light. The concept is already frustrating enough you don't need to take away the player's sight.

The red key trap needs to have some kind of indicator on the punchable wall as some players will not see a way out.

[Fonze]

Awesome dude, great reply! I appreciate you elaborating more on what you were talking about and getting specific with it, this is stuff I can definitely work with. I'll go line by line I suppose to answer:

Boring visually. That's a tough one right there, and perhaps you and others can give me some things to work with on that. The reason I say it's tough is because of the feel that the map is supposed to have. The goals of this map are (in order): punching, labyrinthine (I want just one in the megawad, and the tight quarters made it seem right for punching map), disorienting, and frightening. The shear fun of playing under such limitations is another aspect of it as well. Having said that, let me pose this scenario for you and others:

with those goals in mind, what would you do to make it look better, without giving too many landmarks and such in the maze portions? Answers to this question would be awesome.

Sprawling hallways are certainly monotonous when put in perspective with the community, so it is best to not overuse. This will be the only map close to this style. As for the size of the hallways, it may be too late to change most of them that would actually make a difference, though I may experiment around with it some more. I had originally made the hallways 96 side, but it made things too easy in the maze portions. As it is, you can dodge anything shot at you in those narrow corridors without relying on cover, but not if you stand in the middle. Clinging to the walls is a fear effect (for me at least). Rooms are always good, but I want to be careful of too many landmarks, though there are spots I could add some. I'll look into that when I get home.

Few health pickups. Now that's an important one. There are actually tons of health and armor scattered about, though most are in secrets. Hp should not be a problem on HMP at all, and even on UV there is tons left over after I test it. For starters I'll tell you that the main portion of the grey maze is symmetrical. Putting small bonus pickups in there is a good idea, I will have to do that.

Green area. That's another good topic, my monitor and computer settings related to display are likely different than most people. That is one of the main reasons why it is so important to me that others test my maps, to make sure everything works just right with differing set ups.

What do you think a good low level light number would be for that area that would be good for the person with the average set up? Note also that there is a light switch somewhere (lol).

The red key scenario that appears to be a trap was something I wondered about since I made it. I debated over how obvious or secret to make the exit. Maybe I could put in a door that only raises slightly when use is pressed, but raises all the way when shot (maybe cut the face of it in two for the two different actions).

As for the concept, I am Hell-bent on it (sorry for the pun, I couldn't resist). But with this stuff in mind, (I'm not suprised that long bare hallways are typically looked down upon. Not to mention there are prolly thousands of them in the community) it has to be done just right. That's another reason I need y'all, to be sure I don't go too far off the deep end. But while long, narrow, featureless passageways are frowned upon, sometimes if you do something just right you can break a rule or two, especially if it's done for the right reasons.

One other thing, it's important to me that I have testers because I can only dumb myself down so much (not that I'm that good). With UV being designed for me, HMP and easy modes are tough for me to test since I end with tons of both resources. So yet another reason y'all are important to me, differing skill levels and I'm sure different approaches to the scenarios.
Well those are my thoughts, let me know what you think

[Fonze]

Little update here, some of the topics of change that have been brought up about MAP01 have been addressed.
I changed the red key trap, putting in a seemingly broken door that is a small puzzle. I've also added in an outside area to replace the small hallway after getting the red key.
Lighting remains unchanged as even a bump up of 8 makes it too easy to see (you can see the ends of every hall).
Aside from the 3 rooms in the green maze already, I will be adding in a couple more tonight and revamping two of the three currently in place.
Will not be playable in older versions of Doom engines that are subject to tutti fruitti as my tree leaves use the grass texture (128 pixels tall would be too tall). If someone knows a fix to that problem I could import a 128 pixel tall version of the wood texture used on my trees to fix the only other issue with tutti fruitti.
Current versions of zdoom, gzdoom, and zandronum have no issues.

Will post a link to updated version tomorrow morning. Maps 2-4 remain unchanged as I've had no input on them yet, so the link in the OP will still let you test them.
Thanks for your support so far y'all :)

[Fonze]

New version is live! The download link in the OP is the current version, 1.4

Small changelog:
Added outside area to replace area after the red key that ties back to the beginning.
Added extra area and functions to the second, square room to absolutely destroy what looked too basic.
Added one extra room to the green maze to bring the count to 5.
Revamped the look of two rooms in the green maze to be outside now.
Added extra doors to the green maze; some work, others don't open all the way (on purpose)
Total time added to the level for 100% completion as a result of the main changes: 10 minutes (sorry, I know it's long enough already, but the changes needed to be made and I hope will make it more interesting to play)

I look forward to hearing y'all's thoughts.

[death112]

Sorry I can't really help out here, as i can't give an objective feedback.
I despise labyrinths and hallway gameplay and i just can't stress enough, that hellknights/barons and long hallways just can't come together.

Take first level for example.
You get no gun whatsoever, you're supposed to fight everything off just tyson style. In my oppinion its a really bad way to kick a mapset off. The first map has to encourage players.

[Fonze]

Well in a way just by giving your thoughts you are helping, so I'd like to start by saying thank you. Unfortunately what you hate about the map (and maybe all others do too, idk yet) is the overall concept and entire point of the map. The limitations are supposed to add an extra chalange to make it more fun (but then again I'm a glutton for punishment and believe in saving once or twice per map).

As for what you said about the first map encouraging players, that I agree with. That may be a big problem for this wad if most people wind up hating the concept of this map and it is the first map. I could move it to, say, MAP31 and feature it as a secret map. Then put in a completely new MAP01 to draw people in. The only problems I have with that are that in order to have a punching map I can't have players carrying guns (or ammo, but that opens a can of worms) so I would have to take away guns upon entrance to this level later, which would piss me off if I were a random player and I'm sure will upset others.

One other thing I'd like to ask, what difficulty level did you play on? I don't recommend UV for anyone's first run through, and I don't remember but 2 or 3 hell knights put in the green maze area on HMP; no full on barons in any narrow corridors on HMP.

Remember also that the second through fourth levels are completely different from the first, so even if you hate the first map and request it changed, which may happen, please test those too.

Thank you once again for your thoughts and for giving it a shot, I really appreciate it!

[death112]

To answer your question about the difficulty.
I played on Ultra Violence. Always have, always will.
Most of the people here do, thats why you probably won't have a lot of feedback for the other difficulties.

Secondly, I'd recommend you to check out other tyson maps (maybe you did that already, so sorry in advance) for reference. One critical point, i believe, is that tyson maps aren't too long. Again, this might be a personal preference.

[Degree23]

In Map 1 I picked up the red key, a wall collapsed behind me and I appeared to be stuck. The door in front of me only half opened and I couldn't open any of the walls around me. I was playing in Zandronum. I didn't get through enough of it to have an opinion yet.

[Fonze]

To death: thank you for the repost, I love these discussions because they help me to understand what others are looking for, so I'm not just pleasing myself.

However, I must stress again that UV is not for anyone's first playthrough; UV was meant so I could have fun with these maps too, as well as anyone already at least somewhat farmiliar with them.

I've seen very few true Tyson maps, most of the time I just play a regular map and make it my own Tyson. What are some of the good ones?

To degree23: you gotta punch the door. The facing of it is split in two halves, one side activates with "use" and only raises the door enough to appear broken. The other side activates only when hit by an attack and fully opens the door.

Thank you both for your time, I hope you'll continue onward and give me some more thoughts :D

[obake]

Well, Fonze, I did playtesting of my own on map 01, and I have a lot to say, so here goes:

First off, I really enjoy the concept. There are some really cool ideas, like the first room with the computers that behave as switches, and the lighting details throughout the maze. I like that there is a switch that lights up the dark hallways, which really helps.

Now to the things I did not enjoy. The concept of punching out imps, cacos, knights, and other baddies in a labyrinth is not a bad idea, and for the first half or so, is quite fun. Then the latter half of the maze happens, and it becomes much more frustrating and tedious. I played on both HMP and UV (though only beat it all the way through on UV), and from what I can tell, HMP is just about right.

UV, on the other hand, becomes extremely tedious and luck based, to the point that I was having to quicksave after nearly every hallway, just so I could successfully get through. Each new group of enemies took multiple tries to take down, especially the Cacos, as they would tear me apart in just one or two hits (I was at low health).

I believe if you cut down on the amount of Cacos and Knights, the map would be much more tolerable.

One of my favorite rooms is the downstairs room with the Baron, the two monster closets, and the boxes. This room is fairly cramped, but still has enough open space that I could really use strategy in how I went about fighting.

Perhaps another of the maps problems were that the health pickups were too few. If there were more full medkits within the later hallways that are swarmed with Cacos and imps, it would make running through them faster and more fun, while still being dangerous.

The biggest issue, I think, was definitely the music. I know you probably aren't going to be using the stock music in the final release, and I myself played the PSX port music and sounds during my full playthrough. I started with the regular D_Runnin, but the long, dark mazes and eerie use of lights did not fit at all. The PSX music (and sounds) were a much welcome addition, and made the labyrinths much creepier.

I will test out the other levels, too, on all difficulties. I will also test out map 01 again on both HNTR and HMP, just to make sure they are balanced.

To be honest, I never got too lost in any of the mazes, except for finding what one of the switches did (the one that opens up the path to the YK door). I found six of the eight secrets.

Edit: I should also add that, yes, the level of detail in the maze is lacking. It's not so much that there needs to be landmarks as there just needs to be a more diverse use of textures, I think. Imagine, for example, if the second half of the maze, instead of having the graywall textures, used computer panel walls instead, and maybe a different floor (perhaps raised by a few 8 unit steps) and ceiling. Just something like that could distinguish the two halves of the maze and give the feeling that the player is progressing. Raising the floor in the second half could also work as a way to make that portion of the labyrinth more claustrophobic and intimidating, as if the very walls and ceiling are closing in to crush the player.

Second edit: Sorry I keep adding to this. I just remembered another idea that I think could work well for the maze: replace a few of the monsters near switches with archviles! Unlike Knights and Cacos, Archies are fairly easy to dispatch using tyson fist in tight corridors. But at the same time, they are super fast, and have the potential to resurrect monsters, so it would force the player into more confrontation.

I hope my suggestions help. I will do more testing soon.