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Lycaon

Dialog driven maps?

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I couldn't help but notice how all kind of things are broadly done in Doom engine, but almost never did i see maps with narrative. I've seen some, such as one which title i cannot remember, but it was a TC that looked like an even emo-er tim burton sort of thing, but I didn't like them at all. And I'm not talking about mere dialogs like those in Stronghold. I mean an actual storyline. It doesn't have to be heavy... just at least have a couple characters. I'd like to play something like that. But also, I wonder why is it there are so few (or none) maps like this. Are they looked down by the doom community?

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One day Doomguy went to the supermarket to buy some milk but on the way got ran over by a bus but it was E1M8 he was transported to hell before he died. Then he went to shot the Nazi but it didn't work and he missed. Therefor he had to go to the supermarket in hell instead to get milk but they had ran out of dairy free so he had to go to somewhere else. So Doomguy asked for directions to Walmart but ultimately couldn't find it because the Imps gave him the wrong information and lead him to B&Q but they don't sell milk. So then he went to a deserted desert and asked the cactus fairy but the cactus fairy isn't real like Santa Claus.
When he went back to hell he asked the Mastermind and she said I have some milk you can have so Doomguy milked the Mastermind till she gave him lots of buckets of milk and then he had a happy ending.

The moral of this story is don't do drugs because they will fuck you up till you have wet dreams about Cyberdemon ass.

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So let me get this straight: Yo are trying to make me look silly for liking narrative elements in games and take pride in playing brainless games only? hahahahahahaha you old-school freaks are funny.

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Thanks for those links. And before anyone says "meh", I too love brainless games. I just like seeing more complex stuff done in doom engine TOO, because it's my favorite FPS engine.

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Lycaon said:

So let me get this straight: Yo are trying to make me look silly for liking narrative elements in games and take pride in playing brainless games only? hahahahahahaha you old-school freaks are funny.

No?

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esselfortium said:

No?


Sorry, i meant FuzzbalFox. I don't like smartasses. I mean, if you gotta say something, don't be a kid about it.

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I thought fuzzballs narrative of the original Doom was funny. As long as you don't take Doom too seriously, a storyline like that would be entertaining and would make me (maybe just me) want to play more to see what happens next. Kinda like the Evil Dead movies lol.

But I would also like to see what you were talking about with a couple characters and some small amount of dialogue. My megawad could have dialogue put in, wasn't planning on it though. It will, however, have a storyline that will be expressed in some areas and implied in others. But that's all stuff I will do near the end of completion.

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Fonze said:

I thought fuzzballs narrative of the original Doom was funny. As long as you don't take Doom too seriously, a storyline like that would be entertaining and would make me (maybe just me) want to play more to see what happens next. Kinda like the Evil Dead movies lol.

But I would also like to see what you were talking about with a couple characters and some small amount of dialogue. My megawad could have dialogue put in, wasn't planning on it though. It will, however, have a storyline that will be expressed in some areas and implied in others. But that's all stuff I will do near the end of completion.



Ummm he wasn't roleplaying he was attempting to mock me. Anyways, i know tons of maps with mapping-implied storyline, but not nearly enough dialog driven maps. Also because most of them are lazy half-finished creations of people who don't seem to have played doom much. I'd like to see actual doom gameplay with some dialogs here and there, it would be interesting. nothing too flashy

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I agree with you bro. I think he was trying to mock you too. It was not warranted, as I find your question to be a good one, but it was funny.

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I wasn't trying to mock you at all don't worry! It was about 5am ish when I typed that fresh during TMD's ASS streaming, and we were all full of nonsense!

...I didn't even realise that it followed "loosely" a plot of Doom but now that you mention it...

Also story driven maps/sets can work- they don't have to be serious and a little originality is nice too- I remember playing Void for the first time and really loving it! :D

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Lycaon said:

narrative... storyline... I wonder why is it there are so few (or none) maps like this. Are they looked down by the doom community?

No, not looked down. The trend comes naturally. Doom attracts players mainly for its gameplay, which is what makes it fun, whereas storyline is a nice "bonus" at best. Mapping and writing are 2 separate activities, each attractive for its own traits. Mappers are people who have found mapping to be attractive for them. Most mappers are making maps particularly for the sake of impressing the player with the map, not impressing him with story. Not all mappers are writers, and not all of them want to combine mapping with writing. Sure, there are exceptions, but as you can see, the majority is not like that. If their primary focus was to impress the player with story, they would most probably write fanfics instead of making maps. Players are mostly eager for gameplay, so focusing on gameplay as well as possible appears to be a good approach - it doesn't matter if the story is good or bad, so the problem of creating good story is handwaved away without a blame. I'm all OK with that, because I'm one of the players who enjoy playing Doom (and mapping) specifically for its gameplay and level design in the first place.

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Lycaon said:

It doesn't have to be heavy... just at least have a couple characters. I'd like to play something like that. But also, I wonder why is it there are so few (or none) maps like this. Are they looked down by the doom community?

Well, first thing first: if you want a map with conversations, your map needs to be done either for Strife (not Doom), or for a port with plenty of advanced fancy-schmancy features (this means ZDoom if you didn't get it).

There are exceedingly few maps made for Strife, and generally they didn't bother using Strife's conversation scripting anyway.

ZDoom maps with NPCs and conversations tend to be made for the Hexen game more than for Doom. Otherwise it's oddball stuff like Massmouth or CIF3.

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Doomone.wad adds some sort of narrative though it's really just each episode put into single maps and doesn't have intermissions between levels. The only narrative is the text at the start and end. It does include "cutscenes" if you can really call them that (the game does)

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Hey Lycaon, after I add the next 4 to 8 maps to my megawad, if you want to work with me on a cool storyline for it I think it would really make it pop. I've only basic elements to my storyline so far, which I have not put into maps yet as it could change, but if you wind up liking my megawad, cowriting a story would make it more enjoyable for you and others I'm sure as well (since I tend to take things less seriously. I may make it too cheesy or just plain stupid at times, which is gonna be hit-or-miss for most people).

Anyway, not to ramble or anything, lol. Let me know what you think about the idea.

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Obambirthday had a grand plot with great twists and presidenty dialogue, and much narrative that was told with and without words.

If you want a more an actually good example, there was that one wad with the sergeant that went crazy and made his computer crazy and you went there on a shuttle an then at the end you fought him twit the airguns. And theta other one with the lady woman that wanted you to get the radio but it was made in a bazillion old version of x doom so ch radio did;t appear so you tried to use the ventilator aha the s=just like "bros get me my sucking radio bitch" and you either had to get the old z doom from 1777 or wait for the author to make a better new and shiny version that he released alongside the sequel where you went to a hotel full of demons that didn't let you have a room and there was some angst about here getting kidnapped by bad dudes oar something boring but at least it had dialogue s tries nut unfortunately the problem is ti used arrow underwater oh the move keys

And the other one whether the arch vile steak you how to jump high and then the scientists lady looks you up and is all like "ha has ha you have demon junk in you".

it's 1 am I shouldn't be online.

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Fonze said:

Hey Lycaon, after I add the next 4 to 8 maps to my megawad, if you want to work with me on a cool storyline for it I think it would really make it pop. I've only basic elements to my storyline so far, which I have not put into maps yet as it could change, but if you wind up liking my megawad, cowriting a story would make it more enjoyable for you and others I'm sure as well (since I tend to take things less seriously. I may make it too cheesy or just plain stupid at times, which is gonna be hit-or-miss for most people).

Anyway, not to ramble or anything, lol. Let me know what you think about the idea.


Sure am interested, i'll send you a pm

I'll look into all the links you've given me, thanks a lot

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