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TheVoid

Good wads for monster-specific practice?

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Ive made a post in the past about wanting to do a slaughter-style Wad, specifically Sunder, using the Brutal Doom engine. I asked for a few Wads to get me started on that path, and got a nice list. I kind of put Doom on a back burner for a while, but got back into it again and am working on my list. Something I've noticed, however, is that Brutal Doom has a few enemy tweaks, such as Mancubus fireball effects, the change to Revenant missiles, which seem to be a bit more accurate in their homing, and the Cyberdemon's rockets being faster and more frequent. Im having issues with these, mostly because my muscle memory reacts in ways that Brutal has changed. Are there any good Wads to practice against monsters specifically, as apposed to just fighting them in random Wads? The only Wad I can think of that I can use to practice these monsters is 1 Monster, as its designed to only have 1 kind of monster per level. Are there other mods that you guys can recommend?

Btw, anyone whom is curious on which Wads Im doing to prepare for Sunder, here's my list. Some of these I've already done and are redoing, and others I will be doing blind.

Plutonia 2
Plutonia Revisited
Speed of Doom
1 Monster
Alien Vendetta
Hell Revealed
Eternal Doom
Kama Sutra
Scythe 1
Scythe 2
Hell Revealed 2
Extreme Slumber Party
Sunder

If anyone has suggestions in how to reorganize that list, that would also be highly appreciated, to give me a nice curve. Plutonia 2 must be the first one though, as I'm on map 26 currently, being the one I've worked on for the last 2 days.

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You could use OBLIGE to play some randomly generated levels (with settings for level size, monster type, difficulty, etc).

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TheVoid said:

Brutal Doom engine


heh

Quick tip: I would highly recommend that you don't use Brutal Doom on Scythe 2, considering it replaces monsters with DeHackEd and therefore will screw up if you use a mod.

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Obsidian said:

Quick tip: I would highly recommend that you don't use Brutal Doom


That's as long as it needed to be :^)

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Obsidian said:

heh

Quick tip: I would highly recommend that you don't use Brutal Doom on Scythe 2, considering it replaces monsters with DeHackEd and therefore will screw up if you use a mod.

Scythe and Scythe 2 fall under the category of "blind". If any wad doesn't word with Brutal, I'm going to skip it. The plan is to do slaughter hacks with Brutal, so turning off Brutal is counterproductive.

Ive been told that slaughter maps arent possible on brutal, which I dont know if your "heh" was referencing that, or referencing the Scythe wad itself, but I intend to make it possible.

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Eternal Doom seems out of place in that list; it's mostly about atmosphere, puzzles and stuff. I don't think it's something you are looking for by looking at your intents.
Also all the wads you have listed were made with the vanilla game in mind, and some put you in extreme situations; Brutal Doom changes the core gameplay which may make your game harder.

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I like the idea of practice in general, so my response will be a bit tilted in that direction. Specific monster training is always a good thing to practice.

My best advice, first and foremost, is to just make a map yourself with a few different well-thought encounters, such as a wide open area, a narrow corridor, a room with obsticles, a room with many floor heights, a trap, etc. Afterwards make a dummy start area with as many teleporters as you want, with triggers in front of them that spawn the monsters you want to practice with. Place map spots around the map where enemies will spawn and voilla, you have one quick map that allows for practice with different enemy sets that doesn't need to be edited every time you want to practice on a different monster.

Of course, being a training map for yourself, it doesn't have to look good, just serve its purpose.

On a side note, as I also like the idea of honing my Doom skills, I have looked and not been successful in finding any kind of good tutorial wad, so I have created a thread here to see if anyone else wants to see one and so that when it does come about, it will be able to serve all players well. Specific monster training would be a good concept for several levels of a tutorial wad, though. It you do wind up making your own map for this, I may ask you later if it could be used for the tutorial wad.

On a side note, as I still need to do more for the community, if you still need a map after I have finished my other community projects, I could design you one similar to what I described. This may be a couple weeks though.

Best of luck mate!

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gaspe said:

Eternal Doom seems out of place in that list; it's mostly about atmosphere, puzzles and stuff. I don't think it's something you are looking for by looking at your intents.
Also all the wads you have listed were made with the vanilla game in mind, and some put you in extreme situations; Brutal Doom changes the core gameplay which may make your game harder.

Eternal Doom was recommended, but if it's out of place, it can easily be removed from the list. The rest of the Wads being built for vanilla is fine to me. The gameplay will be harder, but that's the nature of Brutal. Part of the fun will be dealing with the change. I've seen several occasions where the Wad will pit me in, for example, a narrow hallway with a Mancubus in it. In vanilla, no problem. But in Brutal, where the flames have a splash and remain present for a few seconds, this becomes dangerous. Part of my challenge, and my fun, is adapting and destroying.

Fonze said:

I like the idea of practice in general, so my response will be a bit tilted in that direction. Specific monster training is always a good thing to practice.

My best advice, first and foremost, is to just make a map yourself with a few different well-thought encounters, such as a wide open area, a narrow corridor, a room with obsticles, a room with many floor heights, a trap, etc. Afterwards make a dummy start area with as many teleporters as you want, with triggers in front of them that spawn the monsters you want to practice with. Place map spots around the map where enemies will spawn and voilla, you have one quick map that allows for practice with different enemy sets that doesn't need to be edited every time you want to practice on a different monster.

Of course, being a training map for yourself, it doesn't have to look good, just serve its purpose.

On a side note, as I also like the idea of honing my Doom skills, I have looked and not been successful in finding any kind of good tutorial wad, so I have created a thread here to see if anyone else wants to see one and so that when it does come about, it will be able to serve all players well. Specific monster training would be a good concept for several levels of a tutorial wad, though. It you do wind up making your own map for this, I may ask you later if it could be used for the tutorial wad.

On a side note, as I still need to do more for the community, if you still need a map after I have finished my other community projects, I could design you one similar to what I described. This may be a couple weeks though.

Best of luck mate!

I will probably create a map if no one can give one. I just figured that it would be a bit of a waste of time if there was already a map made.

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Alright man. Well if I get time I'll hook you up, otherwise I will look forward to what you put out, whichever comes first.

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Fonze said:

Alright man. Well if I get time I'll hook you up, otherwise I will look forward to what you put out, whichever comes first.


I've actually got something in mind already, I just need to get to my mother-in-laws and use her router to download a level-creator until I can get my Internet hooked up lol. Basically, Im going to just going to create portals, with unaccessable monsters behind them to simulate which monster is at which portal. Using the portal teleports you to a room with that monster, 1 on 1 in a decent-sized room. Behind the monster will be a set of doors, 1 leading back to the start room, and 1 leading to a bigger room with more monsters or a tighter room with monsters and little room to move.

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TheVoid said:

I dont know if your "heh" was referencing that

You said "Brutal Doom engine". Brutal Doom is not an engine, it's a mod, which is compatible with either GZDoom or Zandronum engine (source port). It was almost as if you implied that the author of Brutal Doom made a whole engine, but no, he just created his mod to work with existing advanced Doom engines.

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Heh

Nah, but seriously what you said basically sounded like what I said, but with the monsters represented behind the teleporters ;)

But anyway, that sounds good man, should be a quick and easy project and I'd love to play it if you ever release it.

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What exactly is this, gez? The descriptions the link gives are very vague, and the reviews are horrible. Not that I care about that, as long as one person thinks it was good. But from what I'm gathering this is a wad of many one-room levels that force you to fight every enemy with each different weapon, is that correct? If so, I'm down for it when I get time, but I like some info on stuff before I download it.

Not that this is my thread or anything, but I am interested in this.

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The original Plutonia I think is the best wad for training a Doom player. It really doesn't ease up on throwing Doom's toughest monsters at your right from the beginning -- particularly monsters one would have trouble with in other mapsets, but it gives you plenty health and ammo to be fair and relieve mistakes.

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Fonze said:

What exactly is this, gez? The descriptions the link gives are very vague, and the reviews are horrible. Not that I care about that, as long as one person thinks it was good. But from what I'm gathering this is a wad of many one-room levels that force you to fight every enemy with each different weapon, is that correct? If so, I'm down for it when I get time, but I like some info on stuff before I download it.

Not that this is my thread or anything, but I am interested in this.


He actually posted what I was going to post. It's basically a "your Doom license has expired" (you suck at Doom after all these years of not playing it or some stupid shit storyline) and now you can train on all the different monsters in different situations with different weapons. There's even a test to train up using the BFG right by seeing how much damage you can do in 1 shot on a Cyberdemon complete with damage numbers.

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scifista42 said:

You said "Brutal Doom engine". Brutal Doom is not an engine, it's a mod, which is compatible with either GZDoom or Zandronum engine (source port). It was almost as if you implied that the author of Brutal Doom made a whole engine, but no, he just created his mod to work with existing advanced Doom engines.


I know that brutal isn't an engine, but honestly, I didn't know what to call it. No idea why "mod" didn't come to mind. I guess just because of the nature of the mod, that it's more of an engine mod than anything else, as far as I can think of.

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OK, this isn't "monster-specific", but I consider it good practice: Pagan's Run. Try it with classic Doom's
Nightmare (or UV-fast) or Brutal Doom's Black Metal. And I think I can tell you one thing: if you can't finish it on either difficulty, chances are you won't be able to finish Sunder with Brutal Doom.

Good luck.

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But it's not an engine mod. It's purely a gameplay mod. Also, I'm not sure why you are looking for this specifically, shouldn't you be more worried about fighting a specific monster while also fighting other monsters? If not, just make a quick map yourself.

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