Things Doom 4 is doing right

[DooM_RO]

scifista42 said:

After watching a cinematic of putting your helmet on, and then a cinematic at every weapon pickup...

They are brief and one happens at the very start of the level. Not sure what's the problem.

[Tetzlaff]

40oz said:

This bears repeating. From what could be seen, there seems to be little to no story-driven elements of it, like reading PDAs, listening to people talk, etc. You just start the game and get right into it. I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.

My comment was mainly aimed at movie cutscenes. I actually really liked how Doom3 provided extra story detail through the PDA messages, because reading them was completely optional. The "I just wanna shoot things" players could largely ignore the PDA, while players like me could find a save corner somewhere and start reading and listening to the voice logs. It added an additional layer to the game.

[illYay1337]

Personally, i'm happy Doom 4 is going to be what it is. I think I'll have quite a lot of fun playing this even if there's random stuff that I feel nitpick about.

I'm making my own game anyway. If doom was exactly what I want it to be, my game has no point in existing at all.

Not sure why people are so excited about taking out reloading and aim down sight. Killing floor is a great example of a game about slaughtering large amounts of monsters and having fun doing it. And guess what, that game has slower movement, reloading, and aiming down sight.

Somehow id didn't seem to think of adding reloading back then to some of the guns, so now people think that that's the definition of good gameplay. They could've just made your gun lower like in Golden Eye I guess if they wanted to avoid the work of adding animations.

And I'm sure running at 65 mph wasn't done necessarily on purpose. You walk by default anyway. It was kindof more of a happy accident I guess and people take advantage of it by making sure run is always on when playing in source ports. I think running was always something you had to hold a key down for.

I just remember rolling my eyes a bit when playing the modern ROTT game. Like really? Giant floating coins, moving even faster than doom guy, and not reloading are what they think is the definition of hardcore classic shooter? Yet they have friggin doors that permanently lock behind you for no reason when I'm not even done exploring the whole area for secrets yet?

[Obzen]

potnop said:

Somehow id didn't seem to think of adding reloading back then to some of the guns, so now people think that that's the definition of good gameplay. They could've just made your gun lower like in Golden Eye I guess if they wanted to avoid the work of adding animations.

You are assuming this wasn't a gameplay decision. That id Software didn't bother making reload animations for their weapons until 2004's Doom 3 simply because they couldn't be bothered animating them. Even though Quake II 7 years before Doom 3 had detailed idle animations for all the weapons.

It is apparent to me there was never meant to be reload animations in the game because of how it effected gameflow specifically. I come to this conclusion based on what has been stated about the design philosophy by Romero and Carmack. The game was a streamlined action game emphasizing the speed of the engine Carmack created. It had deep roots in an arcade game philosophy, which explains why the game initially had a finite amount of player lives, and why every level was designed with pistol-start in mind. It would only make sense to remove anything that would curb the action when making an arcade game.

The way a game plays is dependent on decisions which may seem small in the grand scheme, but add up to how a game flows and plays in the end. Stuff like no reloading, no iron sights, fast walk speed and no sprint animation all add up to a game that plays vastly different from a game like Call of Duty, or a game like Killing Floor for that matter. It's the same reason that, while sharing many core mechanics, a game like Street Fighter IV plays completely differently from Mortal Kombat X, for example.

[illYay1337]

It makes me think why they bothered adding a pistol and fists then. The pistol slows the game down quite a lot and in a way has no reason to even exist. And same with the fists when you don't have the berserk pack. If they really wanted to streamline it, they could have made you always start with a shotgun or chaingun, which they sortof did in Quake. They could have also done away with a ton of other things that slow the game down, like exploring, puzzle solving, etc...


They could've also added looking up and down easily but probably didn't even think that moving your eye height up and down would simulate looking up and down. Heretic may possibly have done that first. Not 100% sure. It may have been an accidental discovery. Also not many people had good gaming setups with mice, etc... They optimized it to play well with keyboard I guess. Which also goes to show that the game was likely played slowly by default for about 90% of the players since there's no way the average gamer is going to be precise and fast without a mouse. It took me years of playing to become pretty good with keyboard only and I was just trying to imitate the play style in the Plutonia demos, not realizing it was probably played with a mouse until later. I never even strafed, I always only turned while running backwards to dodge projectiles.

Well, dammit, now I'm getting off topic...

[Jaxxoon R]

Let's just remove the game, then none would have a reason to complain about it.

[dsm]

I think several of the monster designs are very satisfactory and I consider them better than the Doom 3 ones, so in my book, they're done right (the ones they did get "right" that is).

I think the shotgun's design is badass while being very faithful (as faithful as a futuristic design of that weapon can be hoped to be) to the original one. The other guns are a mixed bag for me, but the shotgun's the one I think nails it the best.

And speaking of the shotgun, I'm very pleased to see the way it knocks Imps off their feet - that is what a Doom shotgun needs to be able to do >:D

Changing the player character's outfit to an exosuit that gives you super strength, super speed, double jumping capabilities and the ability to drop down from great heights I think is a superb gameplay decision and the right way to update Doom's gameplay.

And a lot of other things that have already been mentioned and explained better than I could.

[illYay1337]

I've been seeing people complaining about the plasma gun sucking in the reveal. I on the other hand thought it looked and sounded awesome. It's a whitish more detailed version of the doom 3 plasma gun and I recognized it immediately.

It was a bit quiet but I noticed the shotgun was also pretty quiet. Maybe in the demo they balanced the guns to be a bit quieter to not overwhelm the stage or something.

[Koko Ricky]

Design-wise, the plasma gun is pretty rad. I really like the sleek futuristic look of it. My problem is that it doesn't seem like a plasma gun when fired. In 1993, it was acceptable to not have burn marks and this innate sense of heat, but we really need that feedback in 2015. I want to see crispy, charred corpses like in Brutal Doom.

[Javulas]

dsm said:

...Changing the player character's outfit to an exosuit that gives you super strength, super speed, double jumping capabilities and the ability to drop down from great heights I think is a superb gameplay decision and the right way to update Doom's gameplay...

I loved to think that all that falling without damage and incredible strength and speed regardless of health was always Doomguy himself, and everything he wore was for protection.

my only wishes are that the guns sound badass, aren't boring, and the music is only the best music to go on demon stomping rampages with.

They got the movement down, that's probably my favorite part of the reveal E3 thingamahoozit

[Dinosaurs]

Hardbash said:

I loved to think that all that falling without damage and incredible strength and speed regardless of health was always Doomguy himself, and everything he wore was for protection.

Yeah, he should be able to run berserk-naked too and just murder everything with his dick. I just always imagined Doomguy as a steroid and adrenaline injected lunatic, a last resort type of experiment.

[larrypotter]

Dinosaurs said:

Yeah, he should be able to run berserk-naked too and just murder everything with his dick. I just always imagined Doomguy as a steroid and adrenaline injected lunatic, a last resort type of experiment.

I don't know if you are being serious or sarcastic, but I agree.

[Dinosaurs]

Nah I wasn't being sarcastic, I hate that shit. I just genuinely imagine him as a murderous roid-monkey who, if his ammo ran out, would just drop his pants and fuck an imp to death; then run around naked, covered in blood and guts.

[snapshot]

Didn't see anything wrong With Doom 4, i'd love to say for those who want Doom 4 to be Classic Doom "Simply go play Classic Doom", the game looked very simple with not too many stuff odd ,That's the kind of games i love .

[Clonehunter]

A Doom 4 version of H-Doom would not be out of place

[SavageCorona]

Dear fucking god no ^
I've been scarred by that enough.

[illYay1337]

Well that was interesting...

[VGames]

All I can say is they already got my money. Can I get an Amen??

[Reisal]

The good:

-Movement speed
-Multiple paths
-No reloading
-No weapon limit
-No "cinematic" cutscene nonsense
-Nonrestrictive level design
-Infighting
-User created content support
-Multiplayer
-Most monster designs

The eh:
-General color palette used
-Mancubus design

The bad:
-Fatalities ala Brutal Doom
-Not enough hitscan zombies
-Cyberdemon design
-Non-zombie monsters dropping generic health/ammo drops

[Avoozl]

Seeing as how the original Doom's at least had reloading for their shotguns I wouldn't know how to feel if reloading was taken away completely.

[Ixnatifual]

There are appropriate animations for the shotguns, although the Doomguy doesn't lift the regular shotgun up before pumping. Just look at the gameplay footage.

[Koko Ricky]

I've watched the gameplay and trailer footage numerous times now, and I have to say that everything about the game is looking good. All of the designs, from weapons to enemies and environments, have really grown on me. The cyberdemon looks...cuddly. That's a dirty word, I know, but for the last few weeks I've been trying to figure out why his new look bugs me. Id managed to make many of the enemies look downright ghoulish, especially the hell knights and imps, so I think they ought to do the same with the cybie. It wouldn't take a whole lot of work, it's almost there already.

[illYay1337]

Personally for me, these definitely go under "eh" instead of the good.

The eh:
-No reloading
-No "cinematic" cutscene nonsense
-Double jumping


Especially no reloading.

[Koko Ricky]

I do not get the whole no reloading gimmick. It personally never bothered me to have to reload in a game and in my 21 years of Dooming, I've never seen that lack of a function as some special advantage or "Doom-y" thing.

[Obzen]

GoatLord said:

I do not get the whole no reloading gimmick. It personally never bothered me to have to reload in a game and in my 21 years of Dooming, I've never seen that lack of a function as some special advantage or "Doom-y" thing.

It's been a staple of id software's from wlfenstein 3d to Quake 3, and it's one of the reasons, among many, why their games are considered so fast paced.

What do you do in most games where there is a reload function and you're about to run out of ammo? You probably sit back, run away, or go find cover. As brief as that is, it is actively changing how you play the game and approach certain situations.

To me, it isn't just this one thing in a vaccuum that excites me. What DOES excite me are all the small things added up: no reloading, no ADS, very little head bob, and the ability to shoot while sprinting; because all those things show that id cares about how their games used to play and are actively trying to capture something they lost post Quake 3.

[DooM_RO]

I am looking over reactions on the internet and it seems to me that people only take what they want to prove that their opinion of the game is true.

For example, people on NeoGaf and other forums are calling the game linear and slow when plenty of proof on non-linearity (check my thread) and fast speed is present. Baaah, why am I even wasting my time with these retards? Why do I even care what people outside Doomworld think?

It's really funny to me that Doomworld has the most balanced opinions about the game, I was expecting it to be the other way around.

[Koko Ricky]

Doomworld's members range from 14 to 40 and then some. We're anywhere from casually interested in Doom to absolutely hardcore, and as gamers we gravitate to any number of genres or eras. It's probably no surprise that a good chunk of DW is being sensible about their analyzation of neo-Doom.

[ChickenOrBeef]

GoatLord said:

I do not get the whole no reloading gimmick.

It's one more gameplay aspect that encourages the player to keep moving and not take cover. That's one of their main goals with Doom 4.

[illYay1337]

I'm probably still going to take cover heh.

It's how I play Doom normally already.

If there's a room with a huge amount of monsters on the other side I take potshots at them with the chaingun or rocket launcher. And if I'm in some tight corridors I'm usually going to be running around with the shotgun hiding behind pillars and corners and taking shots at enemies. I don't play it like some kind of first person dual stick shooter.

Also watching my guy put shells into the shotgun actually adds to the action for me. I feel like I'm in an action movie.


I feel like DooM would be fine with reloading but unrealistically large mag capacities. Like a shotgun with 12 shells and reload 2 at once like in Doom 3 to speed it up or an assault rifle that holds 99 rounds. That way you still get the run and gun feel but also don't get brought out of the suspension of disbelief because you realize your weapon magically held 100 shells all along or the pistol held 400 rounds. And it's fine I guess if a Minigun never needs to reload. It's like an ever lengthening ammo belt. Whatever....

That whole "Doom Logic" thing is going to ruin it a bit for some of us. That's really the only reason taking out reloading bugs me. It ruins suspension of disbelief.



Doom 3 had descent cutscenes. They were like 10 seconds long. I watch some cutscenes and I'm bored and would prefer they were absent but still force myself to watch them. Doom 3 though had cutscenes that instantly hooked me. I enjoyed the atmosphere and attitude of the characters. And they were short enough to not overstay their welcome. Of course, after playing DooM 3 like the 5th time I may get a bit bored by the long UAC text intro, but the part where you get off the ship is a cool little cutscene. Shows off the engine nicely too back when that was still a huge deal.

[Jaxxoon R]

>reloading hurting suspension of disbelief

>magic monsters from an evil magic land of evil

ye