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VGA

Doom 2 as a single episode?

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The original Doom has episodes. I think of them as 1-2 warmup maps to set the setting, then bigger, more challenging maps gradually, with a meaty map 07 and with a boss battle as map 08. And a quirky map as the secret one.

If you could choose Doom 2 maps to make up a single episode, how would the maplist look?

Another outlook: How would you present a condensed version of Doom 2 as a single episode?

I think MAP01 should still be the first map and MAP29 at slot 07. I am not sure about goddamn MAP30 as boss battle, though, it's bullshit.

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it would sure be cool to have a doom 1 episode 1 replacement that reinterpreted doom 2 as a doom 1 episode

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I've always felt that Doom 2 would be better with episodic splits. Just split the episodes where each "cutscene" with text happens and maybe add in some boss stages. Then again, the whole one episode thing makes Doom 2 unique compared to 1.

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raymoohawk said:

it would sure be cool to have a doom 1 episode 1 replacement that reinterpreted doom 2 as a doom 1 episode

E1M1: Entry Halls
E1M2: The Waste Crusher
E1M3: Fuel Factory
E1M4: Circle of Simple Death
E1M5: Downtown Tenement Zone
E1M6: Citadel Courtyard
E1M7: The Abandoned Chasm
E1M8: The Living Spirit of Sin
E1M9: Barrels o' Tricks and Traps

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Yeah I'm pretty sure every 6 levels is an episode.

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History lesson mode: Enabled

This is what the gaming market was like back in the day - you'd release a shareware game with episodes (e.g. Wolf 3D and Doom), and if it turned out to be successful, you'd also release a "commercial" game, which is not split into episodes (Spear of Destiny and Doom II, respectively).

The Blake Stone series followed the same pattern - shareware first game (Aliens of Gold) and a commercial sequel (Planet Strike).

The Doom Bible also describes the game as having six episodes and a commercial sequel.

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Fredrik said:

E1M1: Entry Halls
E1M2: The Waste Crusher
E1M3: Fuel Factory
E1M4: Circle of Simple Death
E1M5: Downtown Tenement Zone
E1M6: Citadel Courtyard
E1M7: The Abandoned Chasm
E1M8: The Living Spirit of Sin
E1M9: Barrels o' Tricks and Traps

So
MAP01 + MAP02
MAP05 + MAP06
MAP10 + MAP12
MAP07 + MAP11
MAP13 + MAP15 + MAP17
MAP18 + MAP19
MAP24 + MAP27
MAP28 + MAP29 + MAP30
MAP08 + MAP23

Sounds like it would be better than Doom II. I'm not sold on Waste Crusher, though, how about having The Monster Dens instead?

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purist said:

And there was also this thread 2 years ago, basically the same as this one. I've posted in that one, so there's my answer to the topic question.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-general/63825-if-you-had-to-turn-doom2-into-a-nine-level-episode/

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MAP01: Tricks and Traps (8)
MAP02: Circle of Death (11)
MAP03: The Tenements (17)
MAP04: Gotcha! (20)
MAP05: The Catacombs (22)
MAP06: Bloodfalls (25)
MAP07: The Abandoned Mines (26)
MAP08: The Living End (29. Final map, would be better if you couldn't just run past the Cyberdemon though... The exit should be a teleport to a cool Cyberdemon arena, similar to Tower of Babel from Doom1. If that were the case, this would be a good ending. Either that or a teleport to the IOS battle... Heheh.)
MAP09/Secret: Grosse (32. This still makes for a great "Easter Egg" secret map. Come on, you know it's cool.)

If Doom2 was condensed into one episode, that'd be it for me.

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So you get the BFG on the very first level?

That's something I hate about Doom 2, the fact you pretty much plateau once you get to level 08.

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Too bad editing the original maps is forbidden. I imagine an episode like the ones suggested with tweaked weapon/enemy progression and difficulty adjusted for modern doomers. The Cyber fight on MAP29 made mandatory and trickier etc.

Not sure if I would waste one of the precious 9 map slots to put Grosse in it, though.

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If I were to condense Doom 2 down into 1 episode, it would look like this

ExM1 Map 2
ExM2 Map 5
ExM3 Map 12
ExM4 Map 13
ExM5 Map 16 secret exit
ExM6 Map 18
ExM7 Map 15
ExM8 Map 20
ExM9 Map 14

With an episode title of Hell On Earth I picked what I feel are the most realistic earth like maps, except for map 20, but I think that would be a fun final level.

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VGA said:

Too bad editing the original maps is forbidden. I imagine an episode like the ones suggested with tweaked weapon/enemy progression and difficulty adjusted for modern doomers. The Cyber fight on MAP29 made mandatory and trickier etc.

Theoretically, I think it should be possible to make a ZDoom wad with custom MAPINFO, DECORATE and ACS scripts specifically made to alter player's experience with stock Doom 2 IWAD maps without reincluding the maps into the PWAD, which should make it legal. I'm talking about something much more complex and specific than a common gameplay mod. MAPINFO would change map order, and ACS scripts would for example spawn new map objects (items, monsters, blocking objects to some paths...) to specific x/y/z places within the maps, assign actions to be performed when certain monsters die (for example remove a map object that was previously spawned to block player's path), etc.

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VGA said:

I imagine an episode like the ones suggested with tweaked weapon/enemy progression and difficulty adjusted for modern doomers. The Cyber fight on MAP29 made mandatory and trickier etc.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking :) Those were the maps that immediately struck me as cool or interesting even as a youngster.

A Mapinfo lump to go through the Doom2 maps in that order would be pretty cool. Expanding on that idea, a PWAD with only the maps in question slightly edited would also be cool. It wouldn't be allowed on idgames, sure, but it could be fun in a multiplayer server or for SP without being a massive release or anything like that. I only suggest this because I definitely don't have the ACS knowledge to do as scifista suggested ;)

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Hoodie said:

So you get the BFG on the very first level?

That's something I hate about Doom 2, the fact you pretty much plateau once you get to level 08.

Not like The Ultimate Doom did this much better. In E4 you get a BFG on M2; sure it's technically in a secret area, but not secret enough that it's actually hidden from view. At least in MAP08 it's not just sitting there to be spotted by any clown with at least one functioning eye!

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scifista42 said:

And there was also this thread 2 years ago, basically the same as this one. I've posted in that one, so there's my answer to the topic question.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-general/63825-if-you-had-to-turn-doom2-into-a-nine-level-episode/


So there was. And I posted in it too. I have dumped Focus, Dead Simple and Suburbs for Refueling Base, Courtyard and Barrels of Fun, which I think is a fair trade-off.

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BaronOfStuff said:

Not like The Ultimate Doom did this much better. In E4 you get a BFG on M2; sure it's technically in a secret area, but not secret enough that it's actually hidden from view.


I feel like E4 is different because it's Thy Flesh Consumed, it is annoying though. Still, I have always kind of felt that E4 could of been a second part of E3, like E3 would be 18 maps instead of 9 each. That would of given the hell part of the game a very special and weird feel to it.

This is Doom 2 discussion though.

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Hoodie said:

I feel like E4 is different because it's Thy Flesh Consumed, it is annoying though. Still, I have always kind of felt that E4 could of been a second part of E3, like E3 would be 18 maps instead of 9 each. That would of given the hell part of the game a very special and weird feel to it.

This is Doom 2 discussion though.




To me, episode 4 always seemed the odd-man out... it just didn't fit with the rest of the episodes. Felt entirely different... more alike DOOM 2.

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