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Zed

What you think about death?

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I am not afraid of death. There are some circumstances/living conditions where I would welcome death. I fear personal suffering and having to watch others undergo the same physical pain. I don't faint at the sight of real blood, but detest torture scenes in movies.

Some other brothers are talking about ego death. I believe you can reach that through meditation or certain drug experiences. I've taken a lot of hallucinogens and dissociatives which basically taught me to not fear death. Part of the trip experience a lot of times (especially with dissociatives) is entering a state of partial consciousness, and feeling reborn as your brain comes back online so to speak. I became reminded that my whole perception of the universe is a bunch of electrochemical interactions happening in organic tissue. I start to value myself less and the fate of humankind a lot more. The health of the community is so much more important to me now.


I think Technician posted this here a long time ago, I'm probably off

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You were dead before you were born, and it didn't seem to bother you then, now did it? Why be so terrified of going back to that?

My assumption is genectic material breaksdown, may or may not carry fragments of what you previously were. I think we are just "recycled" into whatever we become next through our decomposition and just "assimilated" into the environment around us, which we may come back as whatever at a later time.

Either way, you're guaranteed to be born and you're guaranteed to die, and you're never guaranteed a tomorrow. It's what you do inbetween that makes it count. So why waste time worrying when the clock's already working against you? Worrying about it won't stop it, so find something more constructive to do in the interim.

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I keep flipping out about reincarnation. I don't know exactly why, but the thought of living life again is revolting. I guess because I want this one unique experience and I don't see the point in doing it all again in some other vessel. I am very slowly reaching the point, existentially, where I can let go of individuality. But I don't want to keep living, over and over, living every person's life, including really unpleasant individuals (such as hardcore criminals or greedy CEOs). I'd like to think that something more interesting is in store for us than just doing this all again.

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In fact, it's the only action that you really are required to perform (or suffer).

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Charlton Heston said it best - "Guns don't kill people, Apes with guns kill people!"

By the power of Ben-Moses Death trembles at the sight.

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I had this theory a while ago about how we're really all the same person being reincarnated as different people, so basically when I die I'm born as someone else and I live their life without a single hint in my brain I used to be me (cause it's a different brain) and it could be anyone at any point in time, even someone in medieval times or in the far distant future from now.

I was fucking drunk off my tits at the time though so what do I know
apart from maybe alcohol is my maree-joo-any

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ASD said:

How would it feel like to live as a tree, or a virus?



For all intents and purposes, Humans technically meet all requirements to be a virus.

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Buckshot said:

For all intents and purposes, Humans technically meet all requirements to be a virus.


Apart from viruses having no metabolism and the whole "only being able to reproduce by replicating inside the living cells of organisms" thing.

Look, I know being an edgy misanthrope is for some unfathomable reason fashionable in this day and age, but could such people at least make the effort to get their science right?

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ASD said:

How would it feel like to live as a tree, or a virus?

Neither of them has a nervous system, and their behaviour seems to be dictated by physical factors rather directly, so if they had sentience at all, it would be extremely low-level. So much low-level that you (as a tree or a virus) wouldn't be able to "think" otherwise than about things that currently physically happen with your body. Definitely not think about your own "mind", past experiences or future plans. The amount or quality of senses you have doesn't actually matter. It's the lack of a complex system of molecules or cells that "mediate" connections between inner body states (and senses) directly and fast (?) enough. In my theory, even if you were a sentient tree or virus, you wouldn't be able to influence what's happening with you. You would only feel some primitive stimuli, similarly like you feel touch as a human, but in far less quality (and in case of a tree, probably also "slowed down") - and these stimuli would reflect not only your senses and inner body states, but your entire mind, no other "thoughts" would be present. If it's even possible to call it a sentient mind, that is. It might be far below threshold of sentience, if such a thing exists, because I've just made it up. End of hypothesis.

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NoXion said:

Apart from viruses having no metabolism and the whole "only being able to reproduce by replicating inside the living cells of organisms" thing.

Look, I know being an edgy misanthrope is for some unfathomable reason fashionable in this day and age, but could such people at least make the effort to get their science right?


...unless you're suggesting we aren't pretty much doing to everything else on this planet that a virus does to it's host. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it is what it is. I can't see too many other species out there that look to cause as much destruction to everything around them other than a virus. It exists simply to destroy.. though I wonder in doing so, would the virus know that once it's used up all of it's hosts, it's ultimately destroying itself?

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Viruses only can kill organisms. If we were like viruses we would climb into cows and impregnate them with little humans xenomorph-style.

People in reality like to smash up all the mountains and drink up all the rivers, and then we suck out all the makos from the planet for ourselves and then build cities on the dangerous bits and cry whenever they get destroyed. Then we build there again. And the planet screams or whatever, like in that one painting.

But for some reason we're not interested in putting forward the effort to spread our wild antics to the other parts of the Solar System, which is kind of odd. If we're gonna destroyernate one planet we might as well eat them all.

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Buckshot said:

...unless you're suggesting we aren't pretty much doing to everything else on this planet that a virus does to it's host. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it is what it is. I can't see too many other species out there that look to cause as much destruction to everything around them other than a virus. It exists simply to destroy.. though I wonder in doing so, would the virus know that once it's used up all of it's hosts, it's ultimately destroying itself?


If you're going to insist on using biological analogies, then there are far more appropriate ones that already exist in the sub-discipline of ecology. Look up the concept of "carrying capacity", bearing in mind that in the case of humans, carrying capacity is influenced not just by intrinsic biology and extrinstic environmental factors such as total area of arable land, but also by factors such as technology (which determines how productive a given area of arable land can be).

It's perfectly understandable why things are looking bleak on the environmental front. Non-trivial ecological damage is being done on a global scale and not enough is currently being done to mitigate it. But as far as I'm concerned, giving in to hopelessness and despair won't save us if we can be saved, and will only make us miserable if it turns out we can't be saved.

Ever heard a guy called Thomas Malthus? He was a scholar in the 19th century who predicted starvation on a global scale, resulting in mass die-back of the world's population. But his prognostications turned out to be incorrect, because he didn't predict the advent of the Green Revolution, which hugely boosted agricultural productivity. Since human ingenuity has yet to show any signs of slowing down, we can at least rest assured that solutions can be found on the technological front (look up vertical farms for an example).

The real challenges are on the political and economic fronts. There are some self-correcting mechanisms there in the form of popular anger and dissent, but that kind of thing needs to be channeled and directed in a bottom-up fashion, along with a willingness to resort to extra-parliamentary measures and civil disobedience (voting for politicians ain't gonna cut it so long as they can go back on whatever election promises they make).

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NoXion said:

If you're going to insist on using biological analogies....



pretty interesting read.

Let's hope you're right... though is there enough time to convince the rest of the world to followsuit, or is there just enough people in the world who don't care that wont comply in these advances and attempts to save ourselves? do our efforts truly matter with so many factors weighing against us (after all, who's stopping some country from deciding to push a few buttons annihilating human existence, or some natural disaster that wipes us out before we have a way to flee safely away, or some superbug that mysteriously appears and kills off the population.)

What if the sun decides to have a little fart of gamma larger than normal and disentegrates everything here in a couple seconds? could happen anytime.

What if the planet decides it's tired of this nonsense and actively evolves countermeasures to kill us like fleas on a dog? nature's got ways of handling problematic things, perhaps we've just been out smarting it lomg enough.. though I don't think it's improbable to consider it'll eventually do the same


I'm not arguing with you Noxion, you're far more an expert on the subject matter at hand, and I am not so much.

interested in hearing your response, actually, as it's rare to hear educated responses... and could answer alot of my thoughts. I'll admit... the thought of some of these doomsday theories is kind of spooky.

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Buckshot said:

pretty interesting read.

Let's hope you're right... though is there enough time to convince the rest of the world to followsuit, or is there just enough people in the world who don't care that wont comply in these advances and attempts to save ourselves? do our efforts truly matter with so many factors weighing against us (after all, who's stopping some country from deciding to push a few buttons annihilating human existence, or some natural disaster that wipes us out before we have a way to flee safely away, or some superbug that mysteriously appears and kills off the population.)

What if the sun decides to have a little fart of gamma larger than normal and disentegrates everything here in a couple seconds? could happen anytime.

What if the planet decides it's tired of this nonsense and actively evolves countermeasures to kill us like fleas on a dog? nature's got ways of handling problematic things, perhaps we've just been out smarting it lomg enough.. though I don't think it's improbable to consider it'll eventually do the same


I'm not arguing with you Noxion, you're far more an expert on the subject matter at hand, and I am not so much.

interested in hearing your response, actually, as it's rare to hear educated responses... and could answer alot of my thoughts. I'll admit... the thought of some of these doomsday theories is kind of spooky.


To answer your queries in turn;

1) A sufficient level of global will required to effectively deal with our environmental crises doesn't currently exist, but that could well change as more and more people are affected by climate change. Developments in popular political culture could result in increased awareness and action concerning environmental issues, but since I don't have a functioning crystal ball I have no idea how such developments would turn out assuming they happen at all. I guess that there's some kind of critical mass kind of thing where a sufficient number of ordinary people being pushed out of their comfort zones results in action leading to meaningful change. My advice, for what it's worth, is that if there's any cause related to environmental, social or economic justice that you really care about, then doing something, no matter how small, is better than doing nothing. I mean that in a non-partisan way as well; I'm a communist, but the way things are going now I don't care what you call yourself as long as you're working to further the material interests of the ordinary Joe and Jane.

2) Nuclear warfare is a risk, but the likelihood of that has to be balanced against the considerable influence of those with an interest in a stable global economy, which would be severely damaged if not threatened by even a regional nuclear conflict. It's much harder to make money when globally significant amounts of people and resources have been blasted into radioactive ash.

3) Natural disasters such as a supervolcano eruption or a repeat of the Carrington event also have a non-zero chance of happening, although I can't recall what the actual odds of such events are within the next century or so. All I can say is that if either such event comes to pass, things will be bad but we can at least take solace in the knowledge that their occurrence is not our fault and would have happened even if we had been perfect custodians of this pale blue dot. I'm not sure what preventive measures can be taken in case of a supervolcano eruption, but it might be possible to upgrade our electronic equipment and electrical infrastructure so as to better withstand powerful solar storms.

4) I wanted to address the issue of superbugs seperately. Naturally occurring (i.e. those evolving without direct human intervention) virulent diseases are inherently self-limiting. Nasty shit like Ebola "burns-out" the local susceptible population before it can get too far, although the disease can travel further these days because of air travel. But as recent events have shown, Ebola best spreads opportunistically in areas with poor medical provision. In areas with the resources for decent quarantine protocols, Ebola is far less scary. What we should be more concerned about are intentionally engineered pathogens. Controls on bioweapons are essential.

5) Finally, while the Earth's ecosystems constitute a diverse and complex array of heavy interlocked networks and cycles, I think it's a mistake to assume that the sum total of Earth's biological systems constitute a singular organism (a.k.a. the strong version of the Gaia Hypothesis). I don't think James Lovelock originally intended the idea to be taken that way; instead I think he was using an extended analogy in an attempt to put across the semi-chaotic and unpredictable nature of the Earth's living and life-related systems, i.e. that the whole is greater than the mere sum of its parts. Certain "deep green" and New Age types have taken this idea and run with it, and in the process they have obscured what I consider to be the most important lesson that Mr Lovelock was trying to convey; namely that environmental damage and stripping the planet of its biodiversity seriously inhibits the various self-regulating mechanisms that have built up over billions of years, mechanisms which we still rely on as a species to keep us alive.

These are my thoughts on such matters; take them as you will.

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The real question is what death thinks about YOU.

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It will come, there's no point debating about it, all you can do is choose wether you want to prepare yourself for it by living a measured, apollonian life or live an hedonist life that will come at the price of a burden of fear.

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Bring it on. I'm tired of this planet. I'm ready to get my mansion and be happy for the rest of eternity. This place just gets worse and worse. It saddens me that my children have to grow up in these times. Would be nice if the world ended before they got old enough to know just how tough this world is. Cmon Jesus. I want my front row seats already to watch this world burn.

Just so you guys don't get the wrong idea. I love everybody. I hate no one. It's this world we've changed for the worse with our decisions. It's got to go.

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Death?

Death scares me, I know it is there and that it is coming for me and absolutely nothing can stop it. I know that I can just so easily cause it, postpone it, witness it and even experience it in one wrong move...

But that isn't what scares me, what scares me is what comes of it, do I go to hell/heaven? Do I become a spirit? Do I simply cease, and if so what is that like? Is reincarnation a real thing?

I don't want to find out but I will, and that really scares me.

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Dude u need to make a decision now on what's gonna happen to u. Don't wait until it happens. It's to late then.

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I do not fear death. You are going to die at some point and there isn't any escaping it. So why waste your time fearing the enviable?

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Death is something we can already see in ourselves because we live in the present where our past is already dead. Your self of the past is dead and you can never go back to it. Being dead is not very different from not being somewhere, except you're not here nor there.

Kontra Kommando said:

Even when I kill an insect, I feel some remorse considering the fact that a life has been completely wiped out. I don't even kill spiders; I move them outside of my house.

EDIT: Though, I have no remorse for killing Roaches/Giant Waterbugs, they make my skin crawl. Also, bed bugs, termites, and mosquitoes, because they're destructive.

I mostly leave the spiders (generally small web spiders) be and throw out the roaches. Catching them with a plastic cup is not so hard, although sometimes they're really fired up and move very fast, which is potentially bad for their welfare because they occasionally get squished by the rim of the cup. Fortunately, most of the roaches that show up here are the smaller "German" cockroaches, not the larger "American" ones. Names notwithstanding, they're really from Africa or Asia. The smaller ones do reproduce much faster, though, and their females carry their egg sacks on their abdomen, giving "live birth" to their offspring. That's why there's usually a few crawling about in some nook even though I take the bulk of them out.

They look even more disgusting when they're dead; because you have to see their underbelly. Even worse is if they're not quite dead yet, and you see their legs flailing around.

I accidentally crippled one the other day and it was doing that. Some small ants found it struggling and it disappeared completely, rather fast.

EDIT 2: As I'm thinking of enemy placement for my Alien maps, I sort of envision the Xenomorphs as giant roaches. So I place them in areas that remind me of places you might see a roach and get startled; like darkened corners. Even the movement of the wandering xenomorphs i modeled after roaches; crawling around frantically, then coming to a halt to survey its surroundings; back into the frantic crawling. Roaches are creepy, disgusting, and startle me, so I want to translate that into my maps with the xenomorphs.

I'm pretty sure they're more or less the main inspiration for the xenomorphs. Consider that part in Alien where Ash's head starts to praise the alien and he rants about how it's a perfect survivalist. Roaches have that sort of reputation, too.

PS: Oh, and if I see a bug (or anything) that's in danger, like drowning or whatever, I save it. There's a strange satisfaction in saving something that doesn't know you helped it. Maybe it's like thinking that if there's a god or something it'll do the same for you regardless of how insignificant or imperfect you are.

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Thank you for making this Thread, Zed. There are some truly incredible responses on here.

Death will embrace us all. There's no avoiding that. But until it/he/she does, my recommendation is to embrace life as well as you can. Meaning...find what is most meaningful to you and make that a primary focus. We don't have much time on this earth, considering history and all of the people that have come and gone so quickly...not enough time at all really.
The main thing is to never take your own life; giving in to death before a natural...or accidental...end meets your known existence.

For whatever reason, a sentence came to my mind when I was young. And it was...embrace death as it becomes you. It was something I would say as I would take out a particularly tough enemy in games. Or to roaches in general.

Live long and prosper y'all (not talking money here).

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