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ClumsyDoomer

What's your favorite TAS category?

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Every TAS category requires lots of effort and optimization (except nomonsters, haha). What's your favorite one? Which TASes do you like to make, and which do you enjoy watching?


- UV-Max. They're rare because there's a LOT of room for improvement - tool assistance lets you manipulate monsters, damage, use different tricks and stuff. A good UV-Max requires a lot of patience and effort.

- UV-Speed. Pretty simple category, but it's also the most entertaining one for us TASers. Lots of tricks, action and stuff. A good UV-Speed usually doesn't require lots of brains, just good skills, patience, and imagination for shortcut finding.

- NM-Speed. They're rare, too, but not because it requires many brains, like UV-Max. On Nightmare, it's nearly impossible to manipulate monsters, so you have to kill some of them and lose time. Also, projectiles and monsters are extremely fast, so you have to use a different strategy to survive.

- Pacifist. It's a really funny category because you have to manipulate monsters and (sometimes) avoid rocketjumping. What about making a pacifist TAS of some slaughtermap? :P

- Others: Respawn, Tyson, Reality, NM100... In my opinion, they're not as enjoyable as, for example, UV-Speed, but when I think about Akse's 10st728...

EDIT: spelling!

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Well made, polished TAS UV-maxes are really enjoyable to watch. Stuff like vdgg's and Andy Oliveiras Eternal Doom TASes for example. I'm not as interested in the speed categories in general but if the TAS is good quality then yeah, I'll watch it.

I don't make TASes myself nor do I have any real desire to start doing them so can't comment on that part.

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UV Max for single maps and UV speed movies, mostly. I have always wanted to build demos myself with XDRE 2 but I can never for the life of me work out how to do it. I would get around to it one day but I rarely have time anymore.

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Turbo TAS is my favorite! :P

I'd say it'd be cool to see more Tyson/Pacifist TAS runs, especially D2ALL runs where it is possible (like Doom 2 Tyson, or maybe TNT Tyson or Scythe Pacifist). At the same time, as a TASer I can envision categories like that taking a lot of work to optimize, so I don't know if I'd be willing to do it myself even if I think that the final result could be very interesting to watch.

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What Veinen said. I'd watch any TAS, regardless of the category ( although I have a preference for UV Maxes, UV Speeds and NM runs ), as long as it's polished.

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definitely Uv-MAX TAS

they give a real hint of how things can go, or how the players hopes and force the events- to let the things go "right"

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The TAS runs I enjoy the most are generally ones of games (or in this case, WADs) that I've actually played myself. I spent countless hours playing games like Sonic the Hedgehog and Streets of Rage, so I know the effort I put into trying to complete those games on hardest difficulties, as quickly as possible, etc... Seeing what is theoretically possible in a game if we weren't limited by human reflexes, coordination or the fact we make mistakes is what I enjoy seeing.

So it's really the ones that are super optimised, and/or show off something that is not very likely to occur without tools. A polished NM run is probably my favourite category to watch, but I enjoy UV Speed, UV Max and UV Fast runs just as much.

Besides, techniques that used to be TAS-only have over time worked their way into realtime runs. Not every trick can be done in realtime, but it's been an interesting progression. ZeroMaster010's NM runs are a good example of this.

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I like UV-MAX, UV-Speed and NM-Speed. UV-Fast is cool too. 'Respawn' is most stupid category in my opinion.
As i know D2ALL 'reality' exist only on Doom and Doom2 and that (option) is most painful for building.
If UV-MAX requires some patience to make it good then NM-Speed requires steel nerves because I'm mad from my NM project now.
Any WAD completely changes on that damn skill.

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UV-Speed and UV-Max. I'm not a big fan of NM-Speed as it is the same as UV-Speed in the end except pinkies can open doors like Doom 2 map27 exit.

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UV-Max because there is the largest gap between human possibilities and tool assisted.
Especially build ones - do it more please!
UV-Speed movies are awesome too.

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UV-Speed movies are great popcorn time material when they utilize many shortcuts (Kama Sutra, Speed of Doom, etc). If it's just rushing through everything with not much tricks, I usually get bored.

Another favorite is high quality built UV-Maxes (pretty much only by Andy Olivera and vdgg).

And then there is that 4 player coop demo by Looper... We need more of that sort craziness!

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I like my imaginary UV-Max TASes! So much action, so very difficult to optimize!

I dream of these things:

* Mancubus projectiles go through walls regularly to awaken/kill monsters faster. If a weak monster is in a far away room, this trick might save significant amount of time.

* Monsters are often left behind and luck is manipulated so that the monsters kill each other. An easy example would be Doom 2 map 06 where the spider demon kills all the imps and the player wastes no time/ammo on the imps at all. I imagine that the perfect UV-Max TAS looks like a random dance through the level. Monsters will just magically die all around the place. Damn, the game is hard to TAS when the best weapon is not BFG, but RNG.

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Agreed, UV-max is immensely impressive if incredibly improbable infighting is initiated.

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I agree with most here. Getting a perfect UV-Max just got to be impossible, and I feel like it is easy to notice just how much work some put into them when you see a really high quality TAS.

I never really do max\tyson\respawn etc demos myself, so I preffer UV-speed most of the time. I don't care for NM-Speed TAS, even though some runs are not really possible non-TAS doesn't mean there needs to be a TAS to show that it can be done, because it's TAS afterall, just use more segments and you eventually get through (of course I've never done a TAS so I have no idea :) So I preffer a high quality UV-Speed, anything that looks like the player is just doing a casual playthrough with TAS is not worth watching imo.

In other words, doesn't matter to me as long as it's a high quality (a lot of work has been put into it.)

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I'm really surprised by this:

Looper said:

I'm not a big fan of NM-Speed as it is the same as UV-Speed

If purpose of category are same :exit level: it doesn't mean they are same.
Or you never tried to make NM-Speed or i don't even know what to think. Try for example repeat your Heal Revealed 2 TAS in that category... you will be amazed.
On skill 5:
- You are slower than Imp, Caco, Knight, Mancubus's projectiles.
- You are slower than Pinky.
- Everyone shoting without stopping.
- Pain elemental on complevel 9 in this skill spawn endless amounts of enemies.
- Hundred revenant's rockets with 80% damage which want hug you.
This is not enough? And if it even TAS it doesn't mean it's super easy.
Endless using segments and slow-mo do not make it easy. It's not make you invulnerable. It's hard, it's really hard. It's hard to optimized and it's hard to survive.
If it was a same then on SDA existed much more D2ALL with that category isn't?
I don't impose my opinion just NM category requires much more skills and patience than on UV because some tricks impossible to repeat.
For example Doom 2 MAP 23. 'Thing run' from barrel impossible because Mancubus destroyed it, but i found it in my Pseudo Tyson, how to cut there by Barrel Explosive which takes a lot of health. SAME? Ага....

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I think in this case he means it uses the same criteria and requirements, only change is it is tiny bit harder.

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Please, Azu, don't start another stupid argument.
...

Spoiler

Azuruish said:

And if it even TAS it doesn't mean it's super easy.

Should it?
In my opinion, TASing skills and normal playing skills are different things. There must be no such things as "too fast projectiles, too hard to optimize, too hard to survive" when there's a good strategy and opportunity to manipulate RNG.

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NM tas is notably harder than UV tas only if you suck at making tases.

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ClumsyDoomer said:

Respawn, Tyson, Reality, NM100... In my opinion, they're not as enjoyable as, for example, UV-Speed, but when I think about Akse's 10st728...

Same here. That's why in my 10st728 i tried to combine Tyson with No Damage.

ClumsyDoomer said:

Which TASes do you like to make, and which do you enjoy watching?

To make: UV-Speed of course.
To watch: Mostly UV-Speed, but any other polished, well optimized run will do just fine as well.

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Wow, so I'm mentioned a few times, nice. I admit I like re-watching my demos as well, so at least all the painful building process is kind of rewarding.

Of course, Andy's stuff was the inspiration. It is cool to notice some evolution: et04 (second half) and d204 were like experiments, d204 had these funny TL16 turns. From et06/d206 starts "the golden age", these are now mature demos, reaching the peak with d209 and d211 which I watched dozens of times. I do notice inaccuracies in d209, but it is so *elegant*, and d211 being reality and faster than UV Speed is crazy. These darken2 demos deserve more recognition!! I don't know what happened after et15 and Squadron demos, is there a beginning section of et31 built at all? If yes, can I see it?

About my "evolution", there are clearly two branches: eternall stuff follows Andy's turns style and "little violence" rules, while in the rest I'm more liberal. In et29 I first introduced no maximum damage on purpose, in one of the latest demos I eliminated sharp turns caused by (berserk) punching effect; I turn towards the monster beforehand. And so on.

I like all categories, but I tend to ignore demos if the level/WAD in question is not my favourite.

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Looper said:

NM-Speed as it is the same as UV-Speed in the end except pinkies can open doors like Doom 2 map27 exit.


And you get double the bfg ammo!

Azuruish said:

- You are slower than Imp, Caco, Knight, Mancubus's projectiles.
- You are slower than Pinky.
- Everyone shoting without stopping.
- Pain elemental on complevel 9 in this skill spawn endless amounts of enemies.
- Hundred revenant's rockets with 80% damage which want hug you.


Ok, in NM everything is faster, but that isn't much of a difference when you can just make the game half slower, I'd rather watch a not too optimized UV-speed with the purpose of showing all the possible tricks over a random tas NM-speed

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vdgg: I concur entirely. The tedium of building is offset by the pleasure of watching the awesome results that simply can't be achieved by any other method.

As for unreleased work, there isn't any; et15 was the last. I began routing odessa1 (as a showcase, before the series was re-released), but lost interest before building anything. I guess after twenty years and who knows how many hundred (thousand?) hours I'm just DooMed out. Disappointing, but I guess it had to happen someday. :-(

Favorite TAS category? I've always loved max demos (UV, Fast, Tyson). Few things are more entertaining than watching a good level get completely destroyed in record time.

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