My biggest fear about the new Star Wars movie...

[hardcore_gamer]

...is that it will just be a typical disney movie taking place in the star wars universe. What I mean when I say "a typical disney movie", I am mean a movie that features a young adventurous teenage protagonist/protagonists that's intended to appeal to kids, that goes around doing whacky stuff and having generic adventures.

Already we can see examples of this with the Star Wars: Rebels cartoon's main protagonist:



To be fair I actually rather like that show overall, but ONLY because it expands the star wars lore in interesting ways and because it has enough interesting characters OTHER than Ezra, whom I utterly despise. Even if for no other reason than that he decided to turn his lightsaber into a blaster thus defeating the entire point of being an awesome jedi :(

I can't help but fear that the new star wars movies will be more of the same disney crap but in a new setting. Say what you will about the wars wars prequels. At least they felt like actual star wars movies.

[SavageCorona]

Well if it's directed by JJ Abrams he should know what he's doing. The man likes his practical effects too so we won't end up with another set of films they may as well have just fully animated in CGI like some kind of (all)Star Shrek The Fairytale Menace

That joke would've worked better with Star Trek and I feel disgusting.

[Clonehunter]

hardcore_gamer said:

I am mean a movie that features a young adventurous teenage protagonist/protagonists that's intended to appeal to kids, that goes around doing whacky stuff and having generic adventures.

This sounds a lot like the original Star Wars.


And fuck you, A lightsaber-blaster is fucking awesome. It's actually practical and makes up for a Jedi's lack of range (Minus their sniping skills with deflected laser bolts, which I thought was stupid when used en-masse)

[geo]

I have no fears. I haven't even seen the trailer. I have a clean slate.

It will either fall into 2 categories Disney can do no wrong with other franchises or people just want 30 - 40 years ago. They'd rather see Luke as a grey old man destroy the Death Star over and over again than see a new adventure.

[Tarnsman]

Clonehunter said:

And fuck you, A lightsaber-blaster is fucking awesome. It's actually practical and makes up for a Jedi's lack of range (Minus their sniping skills with deflected laser bolts, which I thought was stupid when used en-masse)

Double fuck you for supporting this dumb nonsense. We need less lightsaber shit, not more. Here's a fun fact did you know in The Empire Strikes Back Luke and Vader's fight is only 6 minutes long of which half is them talking and not swinging lightsabers?

[esselfortium]

hardcore_gamer said:

I can't help but fear that the new star wars movies will be more of the same disney crap but in a new setting. Say what you will about the wars wars prequels. At least they felt like actual star wars movies.

They felt more like sand. Coarse and rough and irritating and gets everywhere.

[Clonehunter]

Tarnsman said:

Double fuck you for supporting this dumb nonsense. We need less lightsaber shit, not more. Here's a fun fact did you know in The Empire Strikes Back Luke and Vader's fight is only 6 minutes long of which half is them talking and not swinging lightsabers?

Lightsabers are overdone, but it's still a practical combo that makes more sense than carrying two separate weapons. I hear the Rogue One film won't feature Jedi, fortunately.

[SavageCorona]

The prequels suffered from too much lightsaber action with no substance behind it. In the original trilogy you know who is fighting who and for what reason. The reason behind the duels in the prequels seemed to be just to have some pretty flashy lights and cool flips for the kiddywinks to go "oooh aaah" at.

[Mithran Denizen]

From what I've seen, the shit Disney has been putting out lately is leaps and bounds more mature and thought-provoking than the drek from Lucasfilm over the past decade and a half.

[Kontra Kommando]

If anything, Disney may help to preserve much of what makes star wars, star wars.

Young boy fights for the forces of good, against the forces of evil; saves a princess; uses magic powers; lots of furry creatures, and robots as companions. Sounds like it could be a Disney film to me.

[hardcore_gamer]

Clonehunter said:

This sounds a lot like the original Star Wars.

The original Star Wars is different in a number of ways though. For starters Luke doesn't get the princess in the end. Secondly he isn't really a teenager even though he is young. Thirdly the big bad turns out to be his dad and he doesn't actually kill him. The original Star wars isn't really as generic a story as many people make it out to be. Not to mention that the sequels are considerably different.

SavageCorona said:

The prequels suffered from too much lightsaber action with no substance behind it.

It's not that I just want shiny lightsiber fights. I just think the lightsiber is a big part of what makes the jedi so badass. The lightsibers are basically the jedi's way of showing that they are so powerful that they don't need guns like everybody else does. By just using a gun instead, what are they then? Just glorified wizards with guns.

I also don't buy that having a lightsiber/gun combo makes sense for ranged attacks, because the jedi need the lightsiber to defend themselves from blaster fire if they are at a range.

[SavageCorona]

I was more on about the fact that the movies sucked balls rather than what makes a jedi so cool.

[Clonehunter]

The first Star Wars was kind of generic, but had enough flashy effects, and told an old story in such an awesome way (With some twists, admittedly, though I'd kind of argue about Luke and the Princess, since even in that film, they kiss several times, quick as they may be. Of course, early on it's alluded to the Smuggler/Princess arc. In hindsight, though, the Marvel Comics were really incestuous.)

ESB changed everything though. I was just talking about the first one.


Now of course, no Star Wars discussion is complete without ReviledJedi. Where did he wander off too again? Oh... right...

[Enjay]

Clonehunter said:

ESB changed everything though.

Skip to about 5.35 if you don't want to watch all the deleted scenes.

[SavageCorona]

no stOP THAT RIGHT NOW

[Technician]

Lucas making them siblings was one of the dumbest ideas ever, IMO. "OH... We surprised the audience with Vader being Luke's father... Let's surprise them again by making Luke and Leia siblings!" *The boardroom stares blankly*

I'm glad they played down the lovers triangle in ESB just so the reveal in RofJ wasn't so weird. I mean, it was already weird, you could tell Fisher thought the idea was stupid just by her deadpan performance and laughable line delivery. I swear George wrote that scene himself.

[Enjay]

People often go on about how Lucas had a "grand plan" and how everything was mapped out from the beginning. However, even the most cursory of research will show that is not the case and if you've read early script drafts and seen cutscenes like the ones I linked to, you can see that it isn't merely "not the case" but "utter bullshit". He may have had a sort of bigger overview of some of the stuff but most of the detail, even some very important detail, simply wasn't there at the start and a lot of what was there got changed or dropped too.

That was also the case for the prequels. IMO, the very early drafts for Episode 1 were much neater, much more efficient, much more satisfying story telling and far more in keeping with the original movies than what eventually appeared on screen. In fact, much of what annoyed the fans and is generally agreed to detract from the movie was actually added in later drafts and the often better options from the early drafts got revised or replaced with Lucas' brain-farts.

Having seen the Ep VII trailer, I'm pretty stoked about it and I expect it to be much better than the prequels. Disney is a very intelligent company and I believe that they will do a good job at targeting the movie appropriately, will honour the old movies and bring in some very genre-appropriate new stuff too. I also think that Abrams has the capacity to do it for them. Here's hoping that I'm right.

[dew]

hardcore_gamer said:

The original Star Wars is different in a number of ways though. For starters Luke doesn't get the princess in the end.

No, he becomes a prince instead. With magic powers. Who needs the princess anyways? Although she does come with a private stash of magic powder...

hardcore_gamer said:

Secondly he isn't really a teenager even though he is young.

I dunno, Mark Hamill was in his mid-20's, but he could easily pass for a 19yo or something. But I get what you mean. You can aim a movie at teen audience, but it can be "when I grow up I'm gonna kick ass like Han Solo", or it can be "these kids just like me are having CRAZY adventures elsewhere right now!" It's like a fairly clear line between inspiration/fantasy and blatant spoonfeeding. I'd say your worries are misplaced though, Disney production is not as single-tracked as you made it to be, don't forget Pirates of the Carribean are Disney too.

hardcore_gamer said:

Thirdly the big bad turns out to be his dad and he doesn't actually kill him. The original Star wars isn't really as generic a story as many people make it out to be. Not to mention that the sequels are considerably different.

Uhhh, I'd call a showdown with your evil father (and his sudden redemption) pretty generic, but that might come to personal taste. Sequels are considerably different indeed. They're an unfocused mess where any semblance of the intended story, Anakin's fall from grace, is ruined by wrong pacing, story telling, character development, etc etc.

hardcore_gamer said:

It's not that I just want shiny lightsiber fights. I just think the lightsiber is a big part of what makes the jedi so badass. The lightsibers are basically the jedi's way of showing that they are so powerful that they don't need guns like everybody else does. By just using a gun instead, what are they then? Just glorified wizards with guns.

Riiiight... heh. Anyways, variations are good. And I don't mean wielding a menorah-shaped lightsaber or a rectally-inserted lightsaber, I mean not limiting Jedis to glorified Errol Flynns with rave sticks for swords. Lightsabers are cool, but I think it's wrong to define Jedis through them. They don't need guns, but why would they in turn need lightsabers? It's about the Force, not a badge they wear. Palpatine didn't need a sword and he was so much more badass for it. Yoda didn't need it either and I'd say that having both of them scrap was one of the biggest mistakes of the prequels. Disgusting pandering to fans that cheapened the "wizard" part of the Force despite constant claims how it's pretty much omnipotent.

hardcore_gamer said:

I also don't buy that having a lightsiber/gun combo makes sense for ranged attacks, because the jedi need the lightsiber to defend themselves from blaster fire if they are at a range.

Do they now? Vader would have a word with you, he stopped Han's shots without a stick.

[Clonehunter]

Enjay said:

Skip to about 5.35 if you don't want to watch all the deleted scenes.

Heh, that scene was also in the Marvel Comics adaption. They had a thing for it. What's funny is that the end of the film manages to infer some kind of "Force" relation between them at the end of ESB, despite these earlier scenes.

George: So, guess what: Vader is Lke's father!
the DP: HOLY SHIT NUGGETS, George! That's a hell of a surprise. Imagine the character turmoil!
George: And Luke and Leia are siblings. We'll imply that at the end.
DP: Siblings, huh? Hmm, okay. Some fate that they meet. So she's like a Jedi too. That's cool... Wait, am I reading this right?
George: What's wrong?
DP: You have them kissing romantically, and then she fucking smacks him with some tongue to show Han up.... Uuhh...
George: It's not like they know.
DP: Why is she also kissing him after it's inferred they're related?
George: It's not like they know. Oh, call up the guys at Marvel, and tell them to do some romantic arcs for the next season of comics. Maybe they have some more romantic tension between them.
DP: Who?
George: Luke and Leia.
DP: B-But... Why? We're inferring they're related? Why push it?
George: IT'S NOT LIKE THEY FUCKING KNOW. NOW GET THEM FUCKING, OR YOU'RE FUCKING FIRED.

[Enjay]

Heh, I'm going to have to go back and listen to the radio plays again too. It's been a while and I don't remember how they handled that aspect of the relationship.

A lot of people hate on the radio plays but they were made before there was an EU to speak of and, IMO, they added quite a few interesting nuggets of information and back story (much of which was later disposed of). This included (as I remember it) a scene with Leia and Bail Organa having a meal on Alderaan with an imperial dignitary of some sort and them finding out about the Death Star as a result. "A New Hope" was probably the best of the plays and expanded things the most. "The Empire Strikes Back" was somewhere in the middle (although John Lithgow as Yoda was amusing). "Return of The Jedi" added very little. It was a more direct "porting" of the film to radio and did feel a bit like "well, I suppose we'd better make the last one too" (kind of like how the final Family Guy one ("It's A Trap") starts out).

[Clonehunter]

I haven't a chance to listen to the radio plays, but I wish more audio dramas were made in general. I can only ever think of the various other Star Wars dramas, like Dark Forces, Tales of the Jedi, and the original Radio Plays. It's such a fun medium, which can, perhaps surprisingly for something audible, can go into more detail about certain situations, such as a character's thoughts or opinions on a matter. Most audio adaptions now is just one guy reading a story (Or the pretty humorous Watchmen animated comic adaption. Of course, even that guy has a more convincing Lori than the film, so).

[geo]

My biggest fear is that Luke Skywalker will go to the past to kill Anakin Skywalker to keep Darth Vader from happening.

[DoomUK]

The problem with Star Wars is that it's held in such high regard that TFA is almost guaranteed to disappoint, no matter how good the story is or how exciting yet meaningful the action is. It's sort of like Doom in that way, except I've never seen reaction videos of people weeping with joy over the mere prospect of a new Doom game.

[FireFish]

Luke Skywalker as a character visually looked like a guy somewhere between his 25 and 28 thanks to the actor, and i think this helped the movies a lot. Kids had a character to look up to, while older viewers could still connect.

it will be different but it surely must be good entertainment even if it possibly could not reach more than a decent Star Wars level.

I just hope they realize that the original and prequel Starwars movies contained woman and black men so they wont try to show off or be (fake) subliminal like this ; "hey look we have a strong woman and a black guy kids, we are great and special yaaay !"

[dew]

FireFish said:

I just hope they realize that the original and prequel Starwars movies contained woman and black men so they wont try to show off or be (fake) subliminal like this ; "hey look we have a strong woman and a black guy kids, we are great and special yaaay !"

Uh, what do you mean? Isn't Lando Calrissian exactly that?

[Technician]

I think he means gender and color over character. I'd rather have a nobody like Carrie Fisher with lots of personality than some high-tier paperweight like Portman.

It's too bad Samuel L. Jackson was wasted on AofC.

[Maes]

hardcore_gamer said:

...is that it will just be a typical disney movie taking place in the star wars universe.

Kinda like this one? It was actually made by Disney, though the plot was more reminiscent of a Star Trek episode, with some Star Wars elements thrown in.

Overall, it was not a bad movie. It even had the peculiarity of being the last major sci-fi movie to use traditional special effects.

Interestingly, I came to know about it thanks to this techno track, which used samples from the Italian dub of the movie:

[geo]

I think the characters are designed to be paper weights. Very restricted and wooden. Like Batman. While Obi-Wan is like Bruce Wayne.

Guardians of the Galaxy is the new Star Wars.

I remember people being pissed that the Star Trek reboot was a fun adventure movie rather than serious, stodgy and dramatic about a submarine in space.

Something I never liked about the prequel movies is the low HIGH volume. The series always stands out in that way. I can fall asleep and get woken up several times when each action sequence starts.

[FireFish]

dew said:

Uh, what do you mean? Isn't Lando Calrissian exactly that?

I cant detect any attempts to actually advertise themselves as special for using a non white actor in the old movies, so to me lando is not like that

geo said:

I remember people being pissed that the Star Trek reboot was a fun adventure movie rather than serious, stodgy and dramatic about a submarine in space.

Starwars-trek never felt right to me... people did not watch and make a success out of star trek(s) because of the braindead action, but at least it proves the director should be able to direct a george lucas styled starwars movie.

[Clonehunter]

To be fair, First Contact was sort of a Star Wars-Star Trek film. In fact, a couple of the Next Generation films were.... Oddly enough, the series always seemed to be a bit more stoic. In contrast, I always thought the original Star Trek series episodes had a lot of far flung (If poorly choreographed) action scenes, while the films were rather stoic (or flat out uninteresting).