Using invisible holes to control monster movement

[Memfis]

In my -complevel 2 maps I like to use tiny invisible holes in ground to control monster movement. For example, at the beginning of the fight some monsters are surrouned by holes that prevent them from coming closer to the player, so these monsters are kind of like turrets. Then at some point of the fight I feel like this isn't necessary anymore, so I silently remove these holes by rising them and the monsters are free to roam around now. Is it a bad habit? I mean it's not obvious for the player how this works and why the "rules" suddenly change, and people often say that Doom's gameplay is nice because you know exactly how things work and what to expect. Or am I overthinking this? I'm gonna continue doing this in any case because it's my maps, but still it would be interesting to hear what others think.

[Chris Hansen]

I think it's a cool idea and one I never thought about. It's just one more of those tricks that expands the game even further in a simple yet innovative way. No over thinking here, just creativity :)

[Ribbiks]

yeea. very nice cl2 behavior, if there was an elegant cl9 alternative it's definitely something I'd use more

[scifista42]

I think it's a great trick. Aside from being able to remove / raise the holes anytime, they also don't block flying monsters, which gives a definite advantage over monster blocking linedefs (you often want flying monsters to surmount obstacles that ground monsters shouldn't be able to surmount). I'm not worried about anything like "unnaturality". It's good as long as you use it for a gameplay related purpose. I think most players won't even notice it, and if they will, they will just mildly wonder, smile (in their minds), and move on.

[Urthar]

Interesting, I had noted behaviour like this, but had never considered deliberately using flat bleeding to hide the hole, or to raise the hole at some point.

[tourniquet]

Hm that sounds really interesting, gonna try it at some point.

[gaspe]

This is a really cool trick. Also like Scifista42 said it doesn't block flying monster. Maybe it will look weird if there isn't a "logic" reason for the monsters to be blocked, like a flat ground; but I don't think the player will notice it too much.
Also, I wish I could come up with interesting ideas like this when I make my stuff.

[40oz]

How is this different in cl9? Do monsters just walk over ledges? I've recently gotten in the habit of using monster block lines around doorways and stuff that might keep monsters from navigating fluidly through areas in a map. I don't like wondering why the monsters in my trap are taking too long to show up.

[Memfis]

In Boom monsters can get stuck on ledges, this is why I refuse to work in this format most of the time. I hate this stuff: play any -complevel 9 wad and you'll see it happening all the time even if the author put some effort into preventing it by using block monster lines.

[Obsidian]

Oh hey, someone else who uses this idea. Neat. :P

[scifista42]

40oz said:

How is this different in cl9? Do monsters just walk over ledges?

No, they will not walk over the holes deliberately. However, if you push them by dealing damage to them, they might move above the hole and probably get stuck there.

[mouldy]

I think i experimented with this to stop monsters from climbing up on window ledges that I still wanted the player to be able to climb over (and flying monsters). I don't think I used it in the end though, so there might have been a problem with it (or a better solution), but I like the idea of controlling monster movement with it.