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hardcore_gamer

How long until people stop hating smokers and drinkers?

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I know nanny government and anti-alcohol/anti-smokes is all the rage these days and has been for a while, but how long do you think people will continue this bullshit before it stops? Most people my age (I am 24) appear to agree with me that these anti-smoking and alcohol laws that are common in the west are crap and so are the super high taxes often collected on them.

How long do you think we will have to wait until we can just smoke and drink in peace?

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It's a quagmire here in Canada. The government has done everything in it's power to deter people from smoking to the extent of adding disgusting labels, hiding packs in stores from general view, hiking taxes and prices, and banning smoking from any government facilities and public facilities only to then try everything in their power to ban e-cigs because big tobacco doesn't want competition. I guess they figured people would smoke regardless of the hurdles and, much like drugs and alcohol, this is true.

Ironically they created a market for aboriginals to exploit selling cheap, shitty cigarettes without having to pay any taxes to the federal or provincial government. Of course, much like gas *snickers* they're only suppose to sell them within aboriginal communities, but they are virtually untouchable because muh genocide and about three-quarters of whitey buys their shitty low-priced smokes.

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Anti-smoking is pretty much universal now, but anti-alcohol campaigning has remained a typically Scandinavian thing. Even the USA, with its dumb 21-yo legal drinking limit, is far ahead from that.

Then again, in Scandinavian (and English/Anglo-Saxon countries, with the USA being a special case) they also have a very, very bad drinking culture that favors binge drinking and (especially in Scandinavia) drinking yourself to death to "cure" your depression, so perhaps you guys really need your alcohol prohibition.

Russia is another special case in that they drink as much as Scandinavians would like to, and yet somehow survive *grin*

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Smoking is such an incredibly inefficient way to get a quick nicotine fix. That junk they put in ciggies really isn't worth it. Nicotine gums for the win.

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Nicotine is also a key ingredient in many pest control poisons.

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Yup. Dosage is the key.

The harm (read: cancer or chronic pulmonary disease) from ciggies comes from benzene and carbon monoxyde. The mild high and addiction comes from nicotine. Alone, at 2-4 milligrams in gums it's pretty much harmless, no known detected side effects. Observed people hooked on nicotine gums or sprays haven't shown any signs of side effects you get from smoking.

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I am about to go out tonight, and I will certainly be drinking and smoking.

Sodaholic said:

I just want pot to be federally legal in the US.


FT Fucking W!

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I hope the taxes on cigarettes and alcohol continue to climb. Have fun paying for my roads, you addicts.

Nothing is more annoying than vapers though.

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What's wrong with hating alcoholics? They just get in car crashes in Wisconsin. Annoying as Hell.

I'm not really sure anyone hates smokers themselves, though. At least I haven't seen it. There's Smoker Shaming, though. Everyone's always complaining about how Smoking is unhealthy (Which, admittedly, it is), but then it's like you can't shame obese people. That's unhealthy too, but I guess we need to see them as "beautiful for who they are, unless they're smokers in which case shame them for smoking."

I don't like cigarettes, personally. I hate the smell, and think that the smell fucks up everything and anything. Hate buying things that smell of smoke off eBay, or rummage sales, or anywhere. Awful shit. I don't hate people for smoking though. That's stupid.

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Maes said:

Then again, in Scandinavian (and English/Anglo-Saxon countries, with the USA being a special case) they also have a very, very bad drinking culture that favors binge drinking and (especially in Scandinavia) drinking yourself to death to "cure" your depression, so perhaps you guys really need your alcohol prohibition.


lol. Do you know why binge drinking was (well probably still is, though not as much as before thankfully) such a big problem? Because the fact alcohol was illegal and/or hard to get (I don't think beer was even legal here until the 1980's) people would take full advantage of their chances when they actually got their hands on booze. More often then not they did this by buying it under the table from US troops station at the Keflavik air base, who were for some reason given an exception from the alcohol ban. The natives took advantage and bought stuff from them.

Once alcohol became legal and started getting sold in stores (albeit, only state stores) the drinking culture slowly started getting better but it's still not perfect. The idea that banning alcohol causes better drinking culture is a joke.

That said, there is one great advantage of the state owned alcohol stores. While the taxes on alcohol are insane since these are government stores they don't sell to make a profit, so the actual prices themselves minus the tax is very low. If the taxes were less insane then some of the high quality alcohol would actually be shockingly cheap considering their quality.

Clonehunter said:

I don't like cigarettes, personally. I hate the smell, and think that the smell fucks up everything and anything.


I agree about the smell. But I don't think it really makes sense to compare some junk smokes to fancy cigars. It's like comparing Scotch and moonshine.

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Technician said:

try everything in their power to ban e-cigs because big tobacco doesn't want competition.


My e-cigs are made by Salem-Winston (Vuze).

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hardcore_gamer said:

If the taxes were less insane then some of the high quality alcohol would actually be shockingly cheap considering their quality.

Sure, but none of that really matters when you're still paying significantly more than the rest of the world.

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Here in Virginia, Beer and Wine are sold in pretty much every grocery and convenience store, with some specialty shops here and there. Hard liquors are only sold by state ABC stores, though.

Smoking in public is pretty much dead at this point, unlike say 15-20 years ago. It is probably best for public health for it to stay that way.

I don't mind too much pipes and cigars, still has a fancy bit to it, probably cheaper and better for you than cigarettes.

Vape has become a big thing here, and I hate it. Its probably the worse for you, considering we cut out the natural leaves and just leave the chemicals. Also, consider that you always have access to the vapor, unlike cigs, which you usually take a break to light and use. My grandmother sucks on one of those vape sticks like a kid with a lolipop.

You want smoke? Take these leaves, wrap them in more leaves, and take that shit and ignite it between your lips like a real man.

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Last I checked, alcohol and tobacco are still legal. Whether or not people hate it is very much a matter of public opinion, not the "nanny government". You have the right to partake in your disgusting habits and others have the right to voice their disapproval.

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Sodaholic said:

Sure, but none of that really matters when you're still paying significantly more than the rest of the world.


Actually this isn't really that true. Or at least not always. It really just depends where you are importing the product from.

Here is JW black for 24 uk pounds: http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/tesco-price-comparison/spirits/johnnie_walker_black_label_scotch_whisky_700ml.html

Here it is in our state store: http://www.vinbudin.is/DesktopDefault.aspx/tabid-54?productID=00732

24 pounds is 4.998kr.

4.998 is less than the 7.590 charged here, but our taxes are also much higher. The UK isn't very far away. Anything imported from the US however is generally crazy expensive. Shit Mexican beer like Corono is actually more expensive than much better European beers.

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Inkie said:

Its probably the worse for you, considering we cut out the natural leaves and just leave the chemicals.

The leaves are just the medium for the tobacco oils. You're just removing the stuff that you have to burn to get to the drug.

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Apparently smoking is going to be eradicated in NZ by 2025. I wonder if National are actually planning on holding parliment until then or if it's going to get offloaded on the poor sods next in line.

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I hate smoking. It's a dumb habit that bothers bystanders. I had a relative die of lung cancer too, so I'm biased against it. Girls who smoke are turn-offs for me, no matter how visually attractive, even worse if they're proud of it. It's like they can't control themselves and give in to self deterioration. What's attractive about a woman is her health and longevity, and smoking comes to cancel this. And it's repulsive anyway.

What's with all this hate on e-cigarettes?! At least they don't smell at all! I'm totally okay with someone next to me vaping.

Alcohol on the other hand seems socially acceptable and seems even expected: it's actually hard to go out past 10 PM and not encounter guys who sound a bit drunk. I don't drink daily, and I usually drink beer or some spirits. Wine makes me drowsy. I never drink alcohol alone.

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hardcore_gamer said:

I know nanny government and anti-alcohol/anti-smokes is all the rage these days and has been for a while, but how long do you think people will continue this bullshit before it stops? Most people my age (I am 24) appear to agree with me that these anti-smoking and alcohol laws that are common in the west are crap and so are the super high taxes often collected on them.

How long do you think we will have to wait until we can just smoke and drink in peace?

How long? You're out of luck. If anything it will get worse for you. The moves are still towards increased levels of restrictions on smoking in public places, the workplace and so on and it's much the same with drinking and restrictions on what you can do when drinking. High taxes on these items are great revenue generators for the various governments and are generally accepted and expected by the population.

As for your "Most people my age (I am 24) appear to agree with me", I suspect that, more accurately, that would be "Most people my age that I know and have spoken to about this appear to agree with me". I suspect you speak to people you know and who share your PoV on this, and not to a representative sample of 24 year olds.

On the whole, I agree with the principles of what exists. I used to hate coming home smelling of smoke after a night or even a day at work because smoking was not banned in pubs, clubs and the workplace. Now it is banned in the UK and I no longer smell of someone else's smoke and nor do the places I visit. Smokers often go on about their right to smoke but happily trash the right of the majority to not have to smell, and smell of, their smoke.

Smoking is, of course, a major health hazard and one of the few products that, even when used correctly, damages health. Even if it doesn't reduce your lifespan (and, of course, often it does) it decreases your quality of life and general health much sooner and much more dramatically than age alone does. In countries where there is a centrally funded healthcare system, the burden put on the tax payer by smoking related illness has to be covered somehow and the tax on tobacco will at least help to offset that a bit.

As for drinking, the antisocial and dangerous aspects of irresponsible drinking (addiction, violence, drink driving etc) also need to be managed and, yes, there are potential health issues there too.

However, if a smoker or drinker isn't causing anyone else a problem, then crack on.

I don't give a shit whether someone drinks or smokes (I don't smoke, but I do drink). Just don't make someone else's life harder because you do these things. The problem is, people are dicks and they do make other people's lives harder.

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Because smoking is fucking disgusting and pollutes the air. I shouldn't have to endanger my lungs and potentially get lung cancer every time I walk 5 feet outside the door.

Alcohol on the other hand is a fantastic way to get over depression issues without confronting them. I'm so healthy lol.

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I'd think that you'd be more in danger of getting sick from car exhaust than you would cigarettes out in the open.

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Car exhausts aren't a problem in areas you aren't allowed to drive cars. I also don't have a hypersensitive choking fit reaction to car exhausts.

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I'm sure it'll happen when either pigs fly or Hell freezes over.

That's not to say I personally hate smokers or drinkers, though. It's their life.

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Smokers and drinkers cost tax money (cancer medical expenses), put other people at risk (road accidents, second-hand smoke). All for the sake of their personal pleasure. Let me grab my violin for you, might take a while because it's really tiny.

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Thirding Enjay and phml. Go smoke yourself to death, but please don't make my clothes and hair smell in the process. Also do it quickly so we don't end up paying the cancer treatment bill for you. Keep in mind that the average smoker is *spits* a poor person these days, possibly even on benefits, so they add exactly nothing to socialized healthcare (if it exists in your country).

Combating alcohol abuse should be the norm, shouldn't it? I haven't seen much hate against social drinking, but if you go as far as to lose the first word in "functioning alcoholic" and become an anti-social unguided missile, that is a bit of a problem, I'd say. Isn't alcohol abuse pretty much a constant companion of, say, domestic abuse?

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So in this thread I have heard 2 common anti-smoking and anti-alcohol arguments, both of which are bullshit:

1. "These things need to be taxed to make up for the cost."

2. "Smokers don't have the right to make me smell or make me be around smoke."

1. Sugar is also bad for you. So is fat. And yet there is no special fat tax, and the sugar tax in my country was actually abolished recently on the bases that it's other peoples concern what you eat. THIS WAS SAID BY THE SAME PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THE ALCOHOL AND SMOKES TAX!!!

In addition, the nanny leftists who defend super high taxes on these things also fail at economics. If you tax something so much that people buy less of it then you just make less money of it. This means that even if the state may not end up spending as much money on healthcare costs it won't matter because they will also make less money of booze/smokes. Nanny leftists know this even if they pretend they don't, so their main goal is merely to tell others what to do.

2. I agree with you if you are in a public place, like when you are waiting for the buss. But using this argument when you are located on another individual's property just makes you sound like self-entitled pieces of shit. A bar is not a vital public service. Nobody owes you the right to go to a bar and not be around smoke. If you can tell a bar owner to not allow smoking just because you don't want to be around it, then why not also tell people they can't smoke in their own homes in case you are visiting?

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