The sergeants and zombie men

[Goosepants]

Is there a tactic to dodge or strafe from them? Just seems they automatically hit you.

[Vermil]

Goosepants said:

Is there a tactic to dodge or strafe from them? Just seems they automatically hit you.

There is no way for the player to prevent or decrease the chances of taking damage from a hitscan/line attack (Zombie, Spider Demon etc and also the players non-projectile weapons) other than putting a wall (or cliff edge etc) or other shootable mobj between you and them.

A hitscan/line attack works by drawing a line from the attacker to their target. This line is then offset by a random amount (IIRC it's up to 15 degrees or so; there is no way for the player to influence this) to simulate a miss or inaccuracy.

The first shootable mobj along that line then instantly takes damage.

[Enjay]

Yeah, the best thing you can do is learn what their attack sequence looks like so that you can recognise it starting up and get behind a wall or something by the time they fire (or just shoot and kill them).

Facing a horde of hitscanners is one of the few times where a blur sphere can actually be useful because it causes them to randomly mis-aim.

[40oz]

If you're close enough to s corner and your reaction time is fast enough, you can catch them for that brief half second where they point their gun at you. Playing on -fast helps you practice that twitch skill.

Other than that, there's not really much in the players control. For me, those monsters are the #1 cause of death

[CapNapalm]

Enjay said:

Facing a horde of hitscanners is one of the few times where a blur sphere can actually be useful because it causes them to randomly mis-aim.

God I hate actually ending up taking more damage from projectile enemies because I dodge INTO their projectiles rather than the blur sphere helping me.

[Doomkid]

Yeah, blur is just as helpful with hitscanners as it is hurtful with projectile enemies.

[Job]

I've always wondered why the zombieman's hair is green. I can understand why a higher-ranking soldier would have a shaved head. But the green hair, it's lost on me.

[Maes]

Job said:

I've always wondered why the zombieman's hair is green. I can understand why a higher-ranking soldier would have a shaved head. But the green hair, it's lost on me.

I'd like an in-depth analysis of this relationship between rank and hair style.

Now, green hair is kinda punk, so since zombiemen are the weakest monsters, it means that they are like jail punks, aka everybody's bitches,

[Job]

Maes said:

I'd like an in-depth analysis of this relationship between rank and hair style.

Now, green hair is kinda punk, so since zombiemen are the weakest monsters, it means that they are like jail punks, aka everybody's bitches,

Interesting theory.

I believe the sergeants shave their heads because it is, in part, a physical embodiment of the order that has been impressed upon them during their military training. This is why they're progressing through the ranks. However, their fatigues are covered in blood, which would be unacceptable to a zombie of commissioned or warrant-officer ranking. Unfortunately, it's unclear what rank the chaingun guy is, so I can't really extrapolate further.

[Pencil of Doom]

Oh please, the sargent is just a shinny headed bald fuck, like Hitler's objector Jodl in the parodies.

[GuyMcBrofist]

The chaingunner always struck me more as a revolutionary militiaman than anything else.

[Combinebobnt]

I juke them to throw off their swingshots

[Demon of the Well]

To clarify, in the long term the best way to avoid damage from any of the zombie variants is not to try to dodge their attacks per se, but to make sure they don't get the chance to make many/any attacks at all by killing them ASAP, usually very doable given their low HP. Naturally this gets complicated when there are large groups or enemies attacking you from several directions, but you'll get the hang of the most health-conducive target priorities soon enough.

[Zulk RS]

Does changing the distance and between hit-scanner and yourself as well as the direction frequently (like circle strafing while also backing away and) help reduce hitscan accuracy?

I once used this to beat a Spider Demon in a moderately large arena with NO cover. I used the Rocket Launcher at the time 'cause I didn't have a Plasma Rifle or BFG.

I don't know if my "technique" helped or if I just got lucky.

[purist]

Job said:

Interesting theory.

I believe the sergeants shave their heads because it is, in part, a physical embodiment of the order that has been impressed upon them during their military training. This is why they're progressing through the ranks. However, their fatigues are covered in blood, which would be unacceptable to a zombie of commissioned or warrant-officer ranking. Unfortunately, it's unclear what rank the chaingun guy is, so I can't really extrapolate further.

I thought I read somewhere that chaingunners were commandos.

[40oz]

Zulk-RS said:

Does changing the distance and between hit-scanner and yourself as well as the direction frequently (like circle strafing while also backing away and) help reduce hitscan accuracy?

YES thats a good point i forgot to mention. It's not always guaranteed, especially with shotgun guys, but moving backward as far as the size of the room permits will reduce the chances of getting shot as well.

[TwinBeast]

I think I remember commando being in some editor.. maybe in DEU?

[Job]

purist said:

I thought I read somewhere that chaingunners were commandos.

I couldn't find an official equivalent ranking for a commando in the military. That said, based on what I read, they are essentially considered part of an elite group or squadron (i.e. Green Berets, Navy SEALs). The assignment of a heavy weapon indicates that they've undergone the rigorous training necessary and have the required discipline to operate solo or in groups. You'll notice that they're actually fairly clean compared to the other zombie soldiers. They are also equipped with light armor integrated into their non-standard issue uniforms and additional bandoleers with the ordnance necessary to complete an assigned mission. Their heads are shaved, therefore, not only as a condition of their inclusion in a specific group, but likely for convenience and combat purposes.

[Maes]

First of all, a "commando" is not a rank in any regognized army in the world. When the term is even acknowledged at all, it is used (often informally) to designate the members of certain units which have received special training. They might be "Special Forces", "Frogmen", "BUD/S", "Navy Seals", "SAS", "Rangers", "Airborne", even "SWAT", among others (by no means an exhaustive list, as each country has their own units and corps which could qualify for "commando").

Rank has nothing to do with it: you may be a Special Forces soldier, as well as a sergeant or a Second Lieutenant or Colonel.

"Sergeant" is also too broad a rank, to use without any qualifier. It may range from being a rank just above corporal, to one just below Warrant Officer, with up to half a dozen different intermediate "Sergeant" ranks depending on the army you are considering (First Sergeant, Gunnery Sergeant, Master Sergeant, Staff Sergeant, Sergeant Major etc.)

But if we accept that Doom's zombies have a power commesurate to their (former) ranks, then the Zombie must be a private, at most a Lance Corporal. The "sergeant" must have been a pretty low ranking one, a plain Sgt. or a Staff Sgt., to be available is so many numbers.

The "commando" or heavy weapon dude appears to be wearing an armored uniform, not just plain old dirty & bloodied fatigues (but then again, being red, you can't really tell if they are stained). His face/beard is also bloody, so I doubt he would pass spit n' polish inspection, too ;-)

However, no definition of the term "commando" used by any serious army, includes an overweight dude wearing a red armored uniform and carrying a 20 kg minigun in one arm, and a backpack full of ammo. That would be a "support minigunner" or "assault machine gunner, at best".By "commando" you usually think of lean, mean, stealthy, lightly armed guys on a precision "black op", quite the opposite of what Doom's "commando" seems able to do :)

If he had an actual rank, maybe he would be a Specialist or maybe a Gunnery Sergeant.

[baja blast rd.]

The Doom bestiary could use flying chaingunners.

[TwinBeast]

Maes said:

By "commando" you usually think of lean, mean, stealthy, lightly armed guys on a precision "black op", quite the opposite of what Doom's "commando" seems able to do :)

Those are ninjas. Commandos have big bulky muscles and big weapons that they can use single handedly. Regular people need them supported on something, like bolted on a vehicle.

[VGA]

Doomkid said:

Yeah, blur is just as helpful with hitscanners as it is hurtful with projectile enemies.

Blur also makes aiming a little bit more difficult. Because normally there is no crosshair.

[Inkie]

Maes said:

By "commando" you usually think of lean, mean, stealthy, lightly armed guys on a precision "black op", quite the opposite of what Doom's "commando" seems able to do :)

They have a nasty tactic of popping out of closets and gunning down lone marines.

[vadrig4r]

VGA said:

Blur also makes aiming a little bit more difficult. Because normally there is no crosshair.

I usually focus on lining up the enemy with the centre of Doomguy's face on the HUD when blurred.

[Maes]

Jimi said:

Those are ninjas. Commandos have big bulky muscles and big weapons that they can use single handedly. Regular people need them supported on something, like bolted on a vehicle.

Real-life commandos are more like ninjas, than just a meaty heavy weapon-carrying grunt. No serious army (other than guerillas, perhaps) actually has any use for such a role, it'd simply be too exposing for the trooper carrying it out, as he'd have limited mobility and draw all the evemy fire onto himself. It'd be quite a disposable "cannon fodder" specialty, actually, not something that you'd sacrifice an expensive-to-train commando in.

And yeah, I've seen "Commando" the movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger. If you want to see how real commandos operate, watch something like "The Guns Of Navarone".

[Lila Feuer]

The Sergeants and the Zombie Men sounds like an indie-pop band name.

[Aaron Blain]

One of the things that I think makes Doom really brilliant is the blending of relatively naturalistic military-themed scifi-horror cover-based shooting gameplay with fantastical high-powered arena shooting. I really enjoy maps that explore the lower end of the weapon/enemy spectrum. Anything that starts with supershotguns and revenants is disappointing to me.

Play Doom The Way iD Did. When you're coming around corners, you'll see that hitscanners actually have incredibly slow reflexes. It ain't Ghost Recon, that's for sure.

I find it so fascinating that Doom's enemies generally have an inverse correlation between their hp/damage and their ability to control space. Possessed marines are accurate hitscanners. Bruisers have projectiles that are very easy to avoid. The one exception to this rule, naturally, is the end boss, an enemy which is in fact so effective that it is very difficult for mappers to construct fights with.

[VGA]

vadrig4r said:

I usually focus on lining up the enemy with the centre of Doomguy's face on the HUD when blurred.

I play in Doom Retro's fullscreen widescreen HUD :-D