Three HKs in a small square room with a berserk pack and an unguarded exit.

[baja blast rd.]

I'm curious how easy or difficult the average passerby finds this to max.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/hrm8e89mitqaxhi/bphk.wad



Completing UV speed in under a second is trivial, because that's the exit switch right in front of you, but try to max it. I've been setting up battle scenarios for fast-twitch practice, after realizing that I'm not so good at Doom (berserking a lone HK in a 360x240 room commonly leads to me taking damage).

(Eta: Boom format map, not that it uses any non-Vanilla stuff.)

[AD_79]

Got it second try, would have been first try but I'm terrible at Doom.

[dannebubinga]

http://www.mediafire.com/download/obg2698im3ucqw5/bphk-danne.lmp

[PsychoGoatee]

For the record, in GZDoom 2.0.05 I get this untextured weirdness on half the floor and ceiling. With standard Doom2 iwad. Also happens in latest dev build.



After about 15 tries I can sometimes take one HK down with me, but that's the best I can do on UV.

I've beaten some Ninja Gaiden games, my Doom melee is just not that strong I guess. Maybe if I had nunchucks.

[40oz]

https://www.mediafire.com/?k9pww1hn35qvv0m

my controller's directional buttons are so mashed in lately that I can't move as easily as I like, so after all the non-berserk punching I've had to do in STRAIN this month, this should have been easier for me than it was.[/bitchtalk]

but got it in 25 seconds on first try, took 48 damage. Thanks for the low-commitment map :)

EDIT: just noticed you said it was a boom map, but I recorded in prboom cl2, in case you wanna watch.

[tourniquet]

Not really tricky, the room is still spacious enough to herd those 3 fellows, i'm not good at tyson so beating it without taking damage still took me a few tries but generally this was rather easy.

[Kotzugi]

Definitely doable, but I might get a few stings along the way. Now try to do it with -fast. Or with barons. Or both. Now I want a j4rio demo for this.

Anyway, I've always had this idea of having a mega WAD but with each map actually being a practice scenario such as this one. You don't play it for fun but to hone your skills. It can contain basic stuff such as two-shotting cybies and then as you advance, the scenarios become more difficult. Perhaps it can even involve tricks such as arch-vile jumps or gliding. Maybe there is something like this around?

[baja blast rd.]

Kotzugi said:

Definitely doable, but I might get a few stings along the way. Now try to do it with -fast. Or with barons. Or both. Now I want a j4rio demo for this.

Anyway, I've always had this idea of having a mega WAD but with each map actually being a practice scenario such as this one. You don't play it for fun but to hone your skills. It can contain basic stuff such as two-shotting cybies and then as you advance, the scenarios become more difficult. Perhaps it can even involve tricks such as arch-vile jumps or gliding. Maybe there is something like this around?

TimeOfDeath has some wads like that.

[dannebubinga]

Kotzugi said:

It can contain basic stuff such as two-shotting cybies ...

Check Time of Maps (tom19.wad) map 11 and 31. There you have to 2 shot 101 cyberdemons.

[RjY]

First try in 0:28, doom2 complevel.

If the box were smaller, it would be nasty*. But it's big enough to circle around the monsters.

________
* alternatively, replace berserk with a rocket launcher

[Andrea Rovenski]

11 seconds first try.

[Pure Hellspawn]

RjY said:

If the box were smaller, it would be nasty*. But it's big enough to circle around the monsters.

________
* alternatively, replace berserk with a rocket launcher

100% kills: did it in 15 seconds. second try.
0% kills: beat it as soon as it loaded.

[PsychoGoatee]

For those rating this a 1 or 2, what do you rate the usual Doom battle? a -40?

Also, if you rated it a 5 or lower and you took more than one try, I say shenanigans on that rating.

I'm the one 10 so far. :D I figure if I can't do it, 10's the only rating I can give it.

[baja blast rd.]

PsychoGoatee said:

For those rating this a 1 or 2, what do you rate the usual Doom battle? a -40?

Also, if you rated it a 5 or lower and you took more than one try, I say shenanigans on that rating.

I'm the one 10 so far. :D I figure if I can't do it, 10's the only rating I can give it.

Spoiler

There's a little dance you can do at the start to get two punches in on the lone top HK for free (usually). Punch him in the back (don't get too close or you'll wake him), then preemptively DODGE to his left immediately after the hawwwwwwwww (because he will connect with a swipe like instantly if you're too close) and get another punch in, and then RUN all the way to the empty corner. Then you can decide whether to swoop in and attack the weakened one again or do something else. The optimal position for the HKs (for your survival) is when they are bunched up so that they'll fire into each others' backs. If three are alive and they are spread out or sort of side to side, don't try too hard to get a punch in. Run around from corner to corner a bit. This usually herds them. It becomes a lot easier when you kill one, especially if you have a lot of health left, so run from corner to corner, trying to take shots at the weakened one until he's out.

Hell nobles telegraph their attacks quite a bit, so be prepared to gtfo when you see them raise their arm.

[PsychoGoatee]

rdwpa said:

Spoiler

There's a little dance you can do at the start to get two punches in on the lone top HK for free (usually). Punch him in the back (don't get too close or you'll wake him), then preemptively DODGE to his left immediately after the hawwwwwwwww (because he will connect with a swipe like instantly if you're too close) and get another punch in, and then RUN all the way to the empty corner. Then you can decide whether to scoop in and attack the weakened one again or do something else. The optimal position for the HKs (for your survival) is when they are bunched up so that they'll fire into each others' backs. If three are alive and they are spread out or sort of side to side, don't try too hard to get a punch in. Run around from corner to corner a bit. This usually herds them. It becomes a lot easier when you kill one, especially if you have a lot of health left, so run from corner to corner, trying to take shots at the weakened one until he's out.

Hell nobles telegraph their attacks quite a bit, so be prepared to gtfo when you see them raise their arm.

Thanks for the advice, I'll try that. Good training. Generally when I run in to punch one I die from another one hitting me and I didn't see it hit me.

[40oz]

PsychoGoatee said:

For those rating this a 1 or 2, what do you rate the usual Doom battle? a -40?

Also, if you rated it a 5 or lower and you took more than one try, I say shenanigans on that rating.

I'm the one 10 so far. :D I figure if I can't do it, 10's the only rating I can give it.

I guess I rated it based on the entire map as a whole. Most maps have puzzles to solve, a sequential traps that damage you or cost you ammo making the following ones trickier than the previous, etc. But 100 health plus a berserk pack is a pretty huge safety net in most circumstances because the fight doesn't cost you any ammo and you have enough health to take a hit or two before dying.

Make the same scenario and copy paste it 6 more times and I may have rated it a 5 or 6.

[PsychoGoatee]

40oz said:

I guess I rated it based on the entire map as a whole. Most maps have puzzles to solve, a sequential traps that damage you or cost you ammo making the following ones trickier than the previous, etc. But 100 health plus a berserk pack is a pretty huge safety net in most circumstances because the fight doesn't cost you any ammo and you have enough health to take a hit or two before dying.

Make the same scenario and copy paste it 6 more times and I may have rated it a 5 or 6.

Fair enough, and I guess you could look at each level individually. I just wonder, in the context of Doom, is it possible to rate this a 1 and still be able to rate the first map of Doom 2 on scale of 1 to 10? Would they both be a 1?

Six fist fights with groups of Hell Knights in a row would be just above average difficulty to you, for example?

And genuine question to the lurkers out there, if you didn't beat this did you just not vote? I'm okay with being the only one, I just sort of doubt I'm the only one. :P

[baja blast rd.]

There's probably at least one person who just read the first line and voted 1 -- it's true that an actual dog can be trained to move Doomguy to the exit and press space -- so I added "to max" there too.

[Andrea Rovenski]

Also, if this was played in a Zdoom port, it would be extremely easy since punching works differently and almost every hit lands, whereas in prboom (or another port similar to it) it would be more difficult. Either way, punching HKs is a joke of a task for someone who has hours and hours of tyson experience :)

[PsychoGoatee]

Cyberdemon531 said:

Also, if this was played in a Zdoom port, it would be extremely easy

I disproved this hypothesis earlier in this very thread. :D (I know about the random number generator thing, but being able to miss a punch just seems like hilarious difficulty)

I didn't even know what Tyson-ing meant until I think yesterday, so I'm in a different Doom tax bracket.

[baja blast rd.]

RNG rolls are pretty important here, for a fast run*. You can kill all of the HKs in 9-24 hits, and they can kill you in 2-6. So I guess it's possible to grind out to like five seconds or something -- especially if you get lucky with pain chances too.


*And for me finishing at all. I'll occasionally survival it but usually get hit at least 3 times.

[Cynical]

Finished it first try, but got hit twice. I'm pretty bad at Tyson against nobles, though.

Still pretty easy.

[baja blast rd.]

-- deleted post --

[Fonze]

I cheated >.< I used zDoom
Took me a few tries, this new laptop's thin keyboard apparently takes some getting used to. Also, the wind. As a side note, I think my shift key will be broken within the year.

I love little practice maps like this. It's always a welcome challenge, to me, to practice my skills at even the basics.

Ideas like this are what make me want to someday create a "Tutorial Doom" type of thing. One map for each specific facet of Doom with each map specifically designed around it's training concept.

Maybe someday... *Looks hopefully off into the distance*

[Kotzugi]

rdwpa said:

TimeOfDeath has some wads like that.

dannebubinga said:

Check Time of Maps (tom19.wad) map 11 and 31. There you have to 2 shot 101 cyberdemons.

Uhm, yay? :) (thanks)

[BaronOfStuff]

[Pure Hellspawn]

is it just me, or is zerking nobles easier than zerking cacodemons?

[Fonze]

It is.

[40oz]

Pure Hellspawn said:

is it just me, or is zerking nobles easier than zerking cacodemons?

Cacodemons have a fatter radius which makes them a little harder to land hits on, and a faster attack sequence. Hell Knights and Hell Barons have to swing their giant arms over so you get a free second to react and get out of the way, while Cacos are a little less predictable in that regard. Common misconception that less health means easier monsters. Just ask the Chaingunners and Lost Souls.

[baja blast rd.]

40oz said:

but got it in 25 seconds on first try, took 48 damage. Thanks for the low-commitment map :)

Almost forgot.

*puts on advertising hat*

Speaking of low-commitment maps, drop by my speedmap thread for a batch of several-minute-affairs. :D (They are quite a bit tougher than this, apparently.)