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Kontra Kommando

What are we allowed to talk about?

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http://www.doomworld.com/vb/everything-else/71373-sanity-pit-sfw/4/

Being that the Sanity pit was shut down for becoming another, "Stupid political thread"; I guess talking about politics is a no-no. Or maybe just politics some people don't agree with. Which is actually a shame considering everything going on in both the GOP and Democratic primaries. I guess we just have to bury our heads in the sand. This thread will certainly be sent to hell. But if its really such a big deal, than perhaps you should amend your FAQs.

as it stands, all it says is this:

The Amerikkkans are the new Nazis. Same shit different asshole lol. Doomworld debate 101: Conducting yourself in a political or religious shitfest.

Most threads about touchy or controversial issues quickly turn into an argument between two or more people with differing views. These debates are probably the most stressful use the regulars will ever make of their brains while on the Doomworld Forums. Often, decency, logic, and the forum FAQ are disregarded entirely by enraged members trying to show each other the "right" way to think. Please lessen the headache for everyone and follow a few basic rules:
◦Address fully all relevant points made by another poster. Use the quote function. Do not make your "opponent" (as it were) think that they are talking to a brick wall.

◦Always state your source when necessary or when asked.

◦Stick to the topic.

◦Avoid stereotypes/generalizations and the rumor mill.

◦Be civil. Someone is not asking for flames when they express an opinion you do not share, no matter how crazy it is. Flaming makes you hard to take seriously, and it speeds the death of the thread. And if you are flamed, you are not required to flame back.

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Eris Falling said:

Outright closing the thread seemed OTT. Could've just been split off, it was like maybe, 6 or 7 posts.


I agree. Most of the posts from the beginning of the thread had no relevance to politics. They could have either deleted or post helled those posts IMO. I'd rather see people post political shit in a Political Insanity Pit thread instead of making new threads about politics. Let all the bitchin' and butthurt happen there instead of occurring in multiple threads in the Everything Else section. That probably won't happen though, but it's just an idea.

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the_miano said:

I agree. Most of the posts from the beginning of the thread had no relevance to politics. They could have either deleted or post helled those posts IMO. I'd rather see people post political shit in a Political Insanity Pit thread instead of making new threads about politics. Let all the bitchin' and butthurt happen there instead of occurring in multiple threads in the Everything Else section. That probably won't happen though, but it's just an idea.


Political Insanity Pit would be a great idea IMO.

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After the past 5 threads I've posted have been condemned to Post Hell, I just don't start threads. After being banished to loser land for the first and only time in ten years with no explanation, I feel hesitant to talk about anything in this forum or elsewhere on Doomworld outside of the Doom Battle Chess thread.

I'd rather be at the party and not talk to anyone here than get stuck in loser land quarantine by myself. It also made me feel unwelcome here at Doomworld in general. Now I just stalk threads rather than participating in them.

From the look of who's "heh"ed on the wall most of us have been there.

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geo said:

After the past 5 threads I've posted have been condemned to Post Hell, I just don't start threads. After being banished to loser land for the first and only time in ten years with no explanation, I feel hesitant to talk about anything in this forum or elsewhere on Doomworld outside of the Doom Battle Chess thread.

I'd rather be at the party and not talk to anyone here than get stuck in loser land quarantine by myself. It also made me feel unwelcome here at Doomworld in general. Now I just stalk threads rather than participating in them.

From the look of who's "heh"ed on the wall most of us have been there.


Yep, I've heh'ed once on that thread. A month ago, I posted a thread about a woman and her children getting attacked by a mob of youths from Chicago and 10 seconds later it was post helled.... I did not even say anything offensive (and you guys know I take the cake at saying offensive shit on Doomworld) I just was looking for a civil discussion on why the police department did not label it a hate crime.

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Look at this movement to change "Everything else" to "Some things else"

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geo said:

After the past 5 threads I've posted have been condemned to Post Hell,

Oh, good, a verifiable statement! Let's see.

#1: a thread literally titled "post hell me"
#2: a content-free thread titled "how does exploding barrels make you feel?" which... was intended as some sort of dumb parody thread I think.
#3: a thread literally devoted to discussion of eating shit. I can't imaaaagine how that thread ever got so bad as to be post helled.
#4: a parody thread to ride the wave of "brutal *"-named threads at the time
#5: a thread about an island full of cats which instantly turned into "jokes" about asian people killing and eating them because they love to eat our pets

So in conclusion, stop posting bad threads, and stop having some sort of grudge about your bad threads ending up where they deserve.

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the_miano said:

Yep, I've heh'ed once on that thread. A month ago, I posted a thread about a woman and her children getting attacked by a mob of youths from Chicago and 10 seconds later it was post helled.... I did not even say anything offensive (and you guys know I take the cake at saying offensive shit on Doomworld) I just was looking for a civil discussion on why the police department did not label it a hate crime.

Oh, you're referring to the thread where you referred to them as youths to the extent that you attempted to highlight the word youths in the title of the thread. I can't imagine what youths you were referring to, or why you wanted to discuss racial issues surrounding youths.

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After an hour or so has set in. I think I needed that wake up call.

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Linguica said:

Oh, you're referring to the thread where you referred to them as youths to the extent that you attempted to highlight the word youths in the title of the thread. I can't imagine what youths you were referring to, or why you wanted to discuss racial issues surrounding youths.


Ummm yeah, because if you read the article, the teens who attacked the woman and her children were youths (Youths: meaning people between childhood and adult age, i.e: teens). The point of the thread was to discus why racial incidents like that are not considered hate crimes. Am I not allowed to talk about that in a civilized manner? Did I say anything offensive, derogatory, or inflammatory? No I didn't. Attempting to highlight youths does not constitute for attempting to incite flamewars. Crime like that happens on a daily basis and nobody seems give a damn about it. (90% of interracial crimes are committed by blacks against whites. Source, US Department of Justice). I wanted to discuss racial issues to bring awareness to it.

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Technician said:

Don't even try. This here be liberal country.


Yeah they would probably send me to the Doom gulag for mentioning these touchy subjects.

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Yeah I'll keep quiet. Its just that simple.

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Hey guys,

In light of this thread (and others), I figured I'd help folks out and post up a simple userscript (get Greasemonkey foo') that fixes Doomworld forever, 100% malicious-code-free:

https://gist.github.com/XaserAcheron/65735e6009b14fd64bda/raw/09dc787332d3f3168c1ec3d8ad7b42576815d252/fix-doomworld.user.js

There you go -- ready to install. Enjoy a better Doomworld, folks!



[Also, I forgot to test this in Firefox because idgaf]

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hard headed, naive gamers and politics do not combine well. This has been proven a lot trough the Internet where they invent racism, sexism, and oppressions scandals and problems where they are not relevant, in existence, or more than imagination in the first place...

And they eventually explode in a fight of walls, where one wall is standing in front of the other one.. insulting each other for holding on to their anchor points no matter how bad, good, or insane one of them might be.

Its understandable that the Doomworld managers are sick and tired of all of that.

the_miano said:

(Youths: meaning people between childhood and adult age, i.e: teens).


I really don't care for the possible racial implications and i will not judge or complain about that at all... but ;

05 to 10 ;
small, fragile, children.

10 to 18 ;
naive children. but not to insult the 'fragile' 15+ range also naive teens.

18 to 25 ;
young adults, and the last years where one counts as youth.

30 and up, to make the jump ;
full blown grown ass, old, out of the loop men and woman looking down on younger people music, and general progress which did not 'rule' when they where young... At least thats the old-school way those age groups behave. hating on everything and anything newer than they are.

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Shoulda just Hell'd the offending posts instead of causing an even bigger shitstorm by locking everything and ruining it for everyone.

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the_miano said:

Ummm yeah, because if you read the article, the teens who attacked the woman and her children were youths (Youths: meaning people between childhood and adult age, i.e: teens). The point of the thread was to discus why racial incidents like that are not considered hate crimes. Am I not allowed to talk about that in a civilized manner? Did I say anything offensive, derogatory, or inflammatory? No I didn't. Attempting to highlight youths does not constitute for attempting to incite flamewars. Crime like that happens on a daily basis and nobody seems give a damn about it. (90% of interracial crimes are committed by blacks against whites. Source, US Department of Justice). I wanted to discuss racial issues to bring awareness to it.


There's certainly a right to discuss statistics. Sometimes they may offended ideals for a harmonious society. But not discussing issues because they are too controversial creates an odd situation for posters. I get that the mods want to maintain the forums from bad threads. But political views are subjective; not everyone views them the same. That's why I think 1 poltical insanity pit thread is a good idea. Everyone gets to express their views and have it surveyed impartially.

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Kontra Kommando said:

There's certainly a right to discuss statistics. Sometimes they may offended ideals for a harmonious society. But not discussing issues because they are too controversial creates an odd situation for posters. I get that the mods want to maintain the forums from bad threads. But political views are subjective; not everyone views them the same. That's why I think 1 poltical insanity pit thread is a good idea. Everyone gets to express their views and have it surveyed impartially.


Thank you. This "sweeping statistics" under the rug because they may offend people is utterly ridiculous and flat out wrong.

Kontra Kommando said:

I get that the mods want to maintain the forums from bad threads. But political views are subjective; not everyone views them the same.


And yes, obviously we don't want stupid-ass posts like this on doomworld and post helling these garbage posts along with losering/banning people for posting like that is the appropriate thing to do.

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Xaser said:

Hey guys,

In light of this thread (and others), I figured I'd help folks out and post up a simple userscript (get Greasemonkey foo') that fixes Doomworld forever, 100% malicious-code-free:

https://gist.github.com/XaserAcheron/65735e6009b14fd64bda/raw/09dc787332d3f3168c1ec3d8ad7b42576815d252/fix-doomworld.user.js

There you go -- ready to install. Enjoy a better Doomworld, folks!



[Also, I forgot to test this in Firefox because idgaf]


If you do that, the bilge will just spill over onto the other boards!

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You're not allowed to talk about anything at all. This is communist america, no?

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Political discussions are tough to discuss, since people have established certain mantra, dogma or philosophy to perceive the world they see to fit. Along with that, the personality adds the flavor, be it smug asshole or calm, pondering person, and the intention, either to troll or offering different angle, put them out to internet, and we have nice soup of heated discussions.

Just my opinion why some sites lock the discussion from the thread. World would get slightly better if offended people could just reign their feels for the moment. At least that's what I try to strive for.

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CorSair said:

Just my opinion why some sites lock the discussion from the thread. World would get slightly better if offended people could just reign their feels for the moment. At least that's what I try to strive for.


Its true what he's saying, being "offended", is really not harming anyone. It may be a challenge to that particular person, but as adults, we need to cope with it. If we want to have democracy, with freedom of speech, than social disharmony is inevitable. Democracy is the most socially confrontational form of government ever created. Because citizens compete with one another for establishing how the society should be administered. But if we can mitigate the conflict to just talking it out, than that would be an ideal situation. Because in other parts of the world, people slaughter one another for their differences. Its much better to live in a society where you are "offended", instead of one where you are likely to be decapitated.

the_miano said:

And yes, obviously we don't want stupid-ass posts like this on doomworld and post helling these garbage posts along with losering/banning people for posting like that is the appropriate thing to do.


Yea that would be the political discussion equivalent of the guy that posted the cat gore pics in the Insanity pit. That guy was also in violation of the established FAQ rules.

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Kontra Kommando said:

Because [in democracy] citizens compete with one another for establishing how the society should be administered.


Actually, that happens in all forms of government. It's the form and accessibility of the competition that makes all the difference.

E.g. you don't like how your king/feudal lord run things and think things should change? Well, good luck organizing a peasants' revolt to get past his pikemen and knights then :) (Hint: a single peasant might not be able to initiate change here, but a rival nobleman might, even against the king or higher-ranking nobleman that he's subservient to. Competition thus still exists, but restricted to a higher level).

Are you in Weimar Germany and think that the right/left is wrong? Well, grab the biggest stick that you can carry, some firebombs, and go down the street with your Kameraden to bust some heads open and bring social change through your fists.

With democracy, there's simply an uneasy truce between people with often starkly conflicting interests. It's a form of bloodless war with strict rules. You're only allowed to "fight" against your "enemies" (aka the supporters of opposing political parties) by voting for your party and against theirs. Whoever wins has absolute control over the rest until the next elections, and everybody agrees to quietly suck it down until then (for the most part).

That "absolute control" thing is valid even if the winning party has by no means 50% of the absolute number of voters on his side, which is admittedly hard to accept sometimes. The very fact that uncontested majority wins are considered only possible in authoritarian regimes/with rigged elections speaks lots.

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like 50% of the posts I make end up in hell. Why? Because they were dumb. Plain and simple, pretty much every post I ever made that does end up getting hell'd honestly deserves to be there. You win some, and you lose some. No reason to get all bent out of shape.

With that notion, maybe adding a new forum channel "dumb rants" could be a consideration where discussion can continue unlike PH, which is reserved only for the public humiliation and discussion is locked. such a "dumb rants" section could be used where the OP questions if it's probably going to end up in PH, but they have some reasonable doubt. And it could be filtered there to keep from cluttering other sections, without as much scrutiny.

Hmmm. maybe that's what the "loser" section is anwyays. Who knows. just thinking outloud.

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Buckshot said:

Hmmm. maybe that's what the "loser" section is anwyays. Who knows. just thinking outloud.


When I was loser'd I thought there would be a big party in the loser forums full of off-color discussion and crazy humour. I was pretty excited at first but then I quickly discovered I was the only one there. That wasn't much fun.

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Buckshot said:

With that notion, maybe adding a new forum channel "dumb rants" could be a consideration [...] it could be filtered there to keep from cluttering other sections, without as much scrutiny.

We already have blogs. Do we really need another subforum that specifically encourages an even lower quality of discussion than what EE and blogs already embody?

Do people really need Doomworld as an outlet to blab about stupid bullshit and get pointlessly pissed off at each other? As much as I like the spirit of "variety discussion" in EE, a good chunk of it is borderline unreadable.

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Mithran Denizen said:

We already have blogs. Do we really need another subforum that specifically encourages an even lower quality of discussion than what EE and blogs already embody?

Do people really need Doomworld as an outlet to blab about stupid bullshit and get pointlessly pissed off at each other? As much as I like the spirit of "variety discussion" in EE, a good chunk of it is borderline unreadable.



Heh. I've never noticed the blogs section before. Pretty much that was what I was reffering to.

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So, do we get to talk about politics or not? That's what the point of this thread was. If not, than I suggest it should be noted in the FAQs. The current ones imply that it is okay, as long as you meet a certain level of debating etiquette. But since political discussions have been getting closed, I made this thread asking if its even allowed anymore. That's all.

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