*** The "ask a miscellaneous editing question" thread ***

[lunoir]

All of the linedefs are tagged

 

None Of them have more than the required switch texture

 

-

 

I tried changing the action, and it still does not work

so I guess it's tied to the textures

[scifista42]

7 minutes ago, lunoir said:

I tried changing the action, and it still does not work

so I guess it's tied to the textures

So try changing the texture too, find out which textures work and which don't, then open the wad's TEXTURE1 in SLADE3 and check for anything unusual about the non-working ones.

[lunoir]

For all the switches that are not working, the corresponding SW2 textures are missing

 

I don't know how to "undo removing them"

Is there a way to readd the missing textures?

[scifista42]

3 hours ago, lunoir said:

I don't know how to "undo removing them"

I thought you'd scrap the wad with the removed textures and go back to a previous version of the wad that still contains all textures.

3 hours ago, lunoir said:

Is there a way to readd the missing textures?

You can open Doom2.wad's TEXTURE1, manually select the respective entries, copy them and paste them into your wad's TEXTURE1.

[Koko Ricky]

How do you stack sectors to make multiple 3D floors in UDMF, either on DB2 or GZDB?

[scifista42]

Just make multiple dummy sectors with different floor/ceiling heights, put one 3D floor line action into each one, and use the same tag on all of the lines, so they will all affect the same sector in the map.

[Koko Ricky]

Just now, scifista42 said:

Just make multiple dummy sectors with different floor/ceiling heights, put one 3D floor line action into each one, and use the same tag on all of the lines, so they will all affect the same sector in the map.

Is there a way I can see a visual explanation?

[scifista42]

I don't know. But it's as simple as you'd make several 3D floors in several sectors. You just use only one tag in total.

Edited November 21, 2017 by scifista42

[Kappes Buur]

24 minutes ago, GoatLord said:

Is there a way I can see a visual explanation?

 

Lots of floors  

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ju1xfakqaf811cd/staircase3b2.wad  

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Empyre]

MAP12 in my empyrion has eight bridges that cross over each other. Each bridge has twenty sectors. The control sectors are in the top left. Some sectors have as many as three stacked on top of each other.

MAP09 has a smaller, relatively simple tower with three bridges.

To look at a map in GZDoom Builder, use Slade to extract the wad with that map, and use the pk3 as a resource in GZDoom Builder to see the textures.

[Koko Ricky]

Thanks, this was very helpful. How do I color an underwater sector?

[Dragonfly]

Assuming you mean ZDoom, the same way you colour a normal part of the map, except you apply the colour to the dummy sector. :)

[Kappes Buur]

 

More specifically :)

For example

Spoiler

where the sector with water is tag1, the control sector is tag3.

 

1. Using the Doom in Hexen format

Use either Sector_SetColor or Sector_SetFade or both, targeting the control sector

 

#include "zcommon.acs"
script 1 OPEN
{
//  212:Sector_SetColor ( tag, r, g, b, desat ) ;
//  213:Sector_SetFade ( tag, r, g, b ) ;
    Sector_SetColor ( 3, 55, 55, 55, 24 ) ;
    Sector_SetFade  ( 3, 55, 55, 55 ) ;
}

for a really murky water.

 

2. Using UDMF

Set the control sector colors in the Sector Mode - Colors menu

[Koko Ricky]

Can UMDF allow for non-coplanar points on sloped 3D floors, or is this only possible on floors and ceilings?

[Gez]

The 3D floor is defined by the control sector, so the slope is defined by the slope of the control sector.

[Koko Ricky]

Right, but the terrain editing feature in GZDoom Builder allows for individual vertices to be pinched. I noticed that when sloping a 3D floor, you can't really do this. It seems to suggest that a non-coplanar triangle is impossible to construct? Or am I missing something? Like if I wanted to construct a very crude sphere or torus, is that possible?

[Gez]

You can pinch the vertices of the control sector...

 

 

Yeah, it'd be simpler to move the 3D floor directly; but that's a question of implementing some editor magic to do it.  In practice it would end up being written in the map by the editor as sector plane equation properties.

 

[Koko Ricky]

When I've tried pinching vertices on the control sector, it causes some weird issues, even if the control is perpendicular to the 3D floor. Are there any videos or tutorials that address this?

[Bauul]

5 hours ago, GoatLord said:

When I've tried pinching vertices on the control sector, it causes some weird issues, even if the control is perpendicular to the 3D floor. Are there any videos or tutorials that address this?

Sloped 3D floors have weird properties where the slope is extended all the way from the control sector to the destination sector (where the 3D floor appears).  So you have to align the control sectors perfectly.

 

To be honest, if you wanted to make like a giant floating sphere in a map, there might be easier methods than multiple 3D floors.  I would suggest either a model (if the player doesn't physically interact with it), or a sector portal.

 

Edit: @GoatLord I chucked this together to show how using a sector portal might work: floating_sphere.wad  Much easier than worrying about 3D floors.

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Bauul

[Kappes Buur]

Some years ago, when the 3D feature was in its infancy, Solarsnowfall made this spheretest

[Zemini]

Okay for the life of me I pressed some button that made it so I can't see the highlight in visual mode.  

 

What did I do?

 

And how do I put these settings back to default?  It took me a month before I figured out G turned gravity back on ...

[Bauul]

33 minutes ago, Zemini said:

Okay for the life of me I pressed some button that made it so I can't see the highlight in visual mode.  

 

What did I do?

 

And how do I put these settings back to default?  It took me a month before I figured out G turned gravity back on ...

H turns on and off highlights.

 

The Preferences menu lists all the hotkeys.

[Empyre]

There is also T for Things.

[Koko Ricky]

So I've been playing with 3D floors and got stumped experimenting. In the screenshot, you can see that there is a logical polygon that would be filled in the yellow space; it would have to be non-coplanar in order to "complete" the implied shape. The only way this would work would be to take the perpendicular vertex and pinch it to meet the vertices at the top of the shape. Is this even possible with 3D floors?

[Gez]

You can align that floor; however that's not simple. The 3D floor is projected from its control sector, so the slope has to be set on the ceiling of the control sector. Remember the "projection" thing!

See how the ceiling of the control sector in this illustration is so far above the ceiling of the actual 3D floor? It's because of that slope projection. Depending on where your control sector is located, the ceiling could also be far below the floor!

 

Extrapolating the proper angle to give to your control sector's floor or ceiling slope so that the 3D floor will be sloped as desired is a question of maths.

 

[Koko Ricky]

3 hours ago, Gez said:

You can align that floor; however that's not simple. The 3D floor is projected from its control sector, so the slope has to be set on the ceiling of the control sector. Remember the "projection" thing!

See how the ceiling of the control sector in this illustration is so far above the ceiling of the actual 3D floor? It's because of that slope projection. Depending on where your control sector is located, the ceiling could also be far below the floor!

 

Extrapolating the proper angle to give to your control sector's floor or ceiling slope so that the 3D floor will be sloped as desired is a question of maths.

 

I think the issue here is that the slope function slopes based on the edge, not the vertex. I just realized this. Hmm. Any way around it? I've tried pinching the vertices of the dummy sector but haven't had much luck. I have definitely made non-coplanar triangles but can't seem to direct the shape in the exact way I want (usually it's on the opposite side, either vertically or horizontally, of what I intended to connect it to).

[Gez]

It's possible but you're going to have to bust out maths. In UDMF you can define the plane equation for the floor and ceiling.

 

Now what's a plane equation? 2 Airbus = 3 Boeing? no. Let's start with a line equation. If you have a line on a plane, and you have coordinates, then you can define the equation with a line. It'll look something like 2x - y = -3 for example. (That same equation can also be written as y = 2x + 3.)

 

If you have the coordinates for two (distinct) points, you can derive an equation for a line that passes through these two points. Say you want your line to go through [1, 2] and [10, 12]. You need to find the coefficients a, b, and c so that ax + by = c. You already have two points on the line, so you can make two valid equations with these coefficients:

• 1a + 2b = c
• 10a + 12b = c

So from there you do maths. Long story short, you play with the equations around a bit and eventually you get y = 10x/9 + 8/9. For example, on the first point (x = 1, y = 2): 2 = 10/9 + 8/9 = 18/9 = 2. Works. Second point (x = 10, y = 12): 12 = 100/9 + 8/9 = 108/9 = 12. It worked again.

 

Okay. Line equations are covered, now let's move on to plane equations. If a line equation describes a line within a plane, a plane equation likewise describes a plane within a volume. So you will get three coordinates, x, y, and z. And you will get four coefficients, a, b, c, and d. And while you need two points to describe a line, you need three points to describe a plane. (Alternatively, you can describe a plane with a line and a point outside of that line.) Just like the points need to be on different positions to describe a line (there's an infinity of lines that passes through any one point, but just one that passes through two separate points (bringing in non-Euclidean geometry will not help at this juncture)), you need your three points to be unaligned (form a triangle that's not completely flat) to describe a plane.

 

So what you're going to do is note the coordinates of the vertices. Suppose we have a square that we want to slope. Being a square, it is defined by four points. To make it simple, I put one of them on the origin: [0, 0]. The other three points are at [32, 0], [0, -32], and [32, -32]. We need three points, so we'll just ignore the last one.

 

The slope we want should be in diagonal, moving from height 96 at point [0, 0] to height 72 at points [32, 0] and [0, -32]. So our full coordinates are [0, 0, 96], [32, 0, 72], [0, -32, 72]. And we fall back to the same kind of things that we had with line equations, except a bit more complex.

• 0a + 0b + 96c = d
• 32a + 0b + 72c = d
• 0a - 32b + 72c = d

And you do maths at this! In fact, if you have stuff aligned to the grid like this, you can kind of simplify it by looking at it as a pair of line equations. On the Y axis, you have a line equation defined by [0, 96] and [32, 72], and on the X axis you have one defined by [0, 96] and [-32, 72]. The first gives you the coefficients a = -3/4, c = 1, d = 96; the second gives you coefficients b = 3/4, c, = 1, d = 96. You combine them and you plug these values into the plane equation UDMF properties. (ceilingplane_a, b, c, d; or floorplane_a, b, c, d). And then you spend some time fine-tuning stuff because you wonder why the values don't work out of the box.

 

Anyway, I got one thing working in the end. You can look at it as an example. The values fed to the plane equation parameters are extremely sensitive to location, in other words, if you decide to just copy-paste these sectors in another map, it won't work, you'll have to recompute the values. A widget to compute these fiddly values automatically would be a great thing to add to an editor...

3dslopetest.7z

[scifista42]

Or just make another dummy sector adjancent to the 3D floor's control sector at an appropriate position and use Plane Align (Slope) on the line between the two sectors.

[Koko Ricky]

18 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

Or just make another dummy sector adjancent to the 3D floor's control sector at an appropriate position and use Plane Align (Slope) on the line between the two sectors.

The problem is, unless I'm missing something here, the extrusion ends up being perpendicular to X and Y, rather than tilting at a non-coplanar angle to fill in the gap. What ends up happening is that one vertex will be in the right position, but the second, third or both will not be. I can't really follow @Gez's instructions because I do not understand algebra and never passed it in my schooling years.

[scifista42]

The angle of the line with the Plane Align (Slope) action defines the slope's direction. Make the line non-orthogonal and you'll get a non-orthogonally directed slope.