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Chris Hansen

THT: Threnody - released!

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Awesome, thanks for your thoughts and feedback dobu :D

Yea I wasn't too happy with the poor cues on the YK track. I did make an attempt to highlight the second-half of that mechanism with some markers, but I haven't touch the first-half (where you drop down on the METAL platform and press that switch). I'll do something there to help make it stand out a bit more.

Also yes I can get rid of those METAL vents in the opening room. They do get it the way and don't really mesh well with the architecture there, I agree.

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My new mouse came in yesterday, so I've spent my free time working on graphic stuff and updating my map yet again.

First off, here is a new interpic candidate. I think this one came out pretty decent, though I'm still not too fond of the hazy sky (it probably won't get any better though).



So I pulled the buildings closer together to the little guys on the hill, and then did some manual highlights/shadows and a chopped up a bit more scenery to try and get with a bit more detail. Then I fiddled with the contrast/brightness a bit so it looked like Chris's attempted a few pages back. At the very least it looks much better than my first attempt!

I've also made very slight updates to the TNT space sky. You can download the updated .wad here (interpic is in this wad as well): http://files.project-retrograde.com/duum-temp/newskytest5.wad

And finally here's v3 of Fomalhaut, along with a changelog.
Fomalhaut v3

Lemme know what you guys think of that interpic.

*edit*

Forgot to take out STEP2FIX from the map (since its in the resource wad now). So I've updated the link with that change.

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Looks good! Chris did well with picking those out and you made some great adjustments to these pics.

I also forgot to mention that I didn't like the midi to your map. I think the song is alright, it's just that since your compound is a 45 minute adventure, the short repeating guitar melody gets abrasive some ways into the map. It's up to your discretion whether to change it or not of course—just wanted to add my two cents.

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Thanks!

Oh yea, that does remind me, I'm looking for a different track. I meant to mention that in my previous post, but I forgot. If anyone has some recommendations, let me know.

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Yo we do need some longer MIDIs for this project. I think at least 5 of these so-far are 45-minute (or longer) treks.

Speaking of which, what is the limit for song length in PrBoom?

I'll have to check the INTERPIC later on tonight when I can get on my desktop, but on my phone it looks cool.

Speaking of that thing, am I the only one that doesn't actually see any people in it? I see the three lights on the right, but they look like they're floating to me.

Also, perhaps itd be cool to knock two of them out so there is only one person/floating-light/whatever, like in the TITLEPIC. A thought for now.

One last thing, glad to hear there's another update to your map Mech; I'll use that instead when I play it again.

Spoiler

I hope I'll be able to make full demos so y'all can get the most out of them, assuming the long maps don't drive me insane in the process. I about shit myself when I was almost 30 minutes in last night on Sky Pillar and I was put face-to-face with a cybie. I'm totally fine with that (I kinda did that too on WormHell, so even if I wasn't I better stfu; but I am), but man that makes me a bit nervous and antsy about making a full demo (which is probably where the booze entered the situation last night; prolly shouldn't have done that). Still, I got tomorrow off and plenty more booze so I'll try and try again. Might wind up doing these out of order as a result, but I'll try and get them all done. Worst case scenario I'll use saves, f*ck the demo, and just provide a massive wall of text; outfitted with a border of text on the ceilings and floors and maybe some support text to make it look nice.

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The interpic looks great in-game, Mech! Good job! I don't see any reason to change. I like the presence of the three characters. It's like Ty is the lost marine floating in space and these guys are searching for clues to his whereabouts. The titlepic and interpic ties together nicely this way, I think.

I also like the changes to your map. Some of them are very subtle, but they have a good effect!

I have updated sepTYtex so it includes the new version of the night sky - and I've added SKYSTRN1 which wasn't there in the previous versions. But I was seriously in doubt what sky you've updated, as I couldn't really see any differences to the various skies in SLADE. But it might be more noticeable in-game. Take a look at the sepTYtex2c and double check that I've included the right versions and let me know if something needs to be changed.

Fonze said:

I really liked the new theme to this map! The texturing you've done, Chris, looks great!

Ammo balancing felt perfect for my playthroughs tonight.

I felt like there could have been a tad more health in/right before the real red key room with the four chaingunners from tough angles. That was probably the toughest spot of the map, but all-in-all it was a very easy map that would fit a MAP02 spot.

Oh, and pardon the extra couple minutes at the end of the demo, I had to take another look around at the level, which I also spent looking for secrets as well (and inspecting the "generator"-thing). Final length was, I think 8-something. But that demo likely isn't important as there's really not much to show. Maybe if I made all the runs one long, continuous demo so the failures could be seen as well but being such a short, easy map there's just not much worth watching. Though the HK and imps from outside did try to sneak up on me on that last one. The one before just an imp came right as I walked into the real red key room, got perforated, and retreated. Guess what happened ;p


Thanks for the demo! It dragged on a bit in the end, but overall it was nice to see you play it. You actually starred into the wall that activates the backpack secret multiple times; too bad you were too drunk to notice! ;) I've added a some more healtpots and changed a stimpack to a medikit.

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Awesome, glad you like the interpic! I really liked the ideas behind both the interpic and titlepic and they fit the theme of the project well in my opinion.

The sky updates was just super subtle editing on the hellish galaxy in the TNT space sky. Really probably only stuff that I would notice, but I tend to be a perfectionist with these things sometimes :P

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Ok, haven't had much time, but I failed at Sky Pillar v2 and Fomalhaut v3 a few times a piece and completed TY45-15 from Didy. So here's my stuff on that.

TY45-15
By: didy


First off, demo -complevel 9 15 minutes or something like that.

Man I really like how this level has changed since I first played it. The new texturing looks just great and I love the way the level flows. I also notice a dirt path on the ground leading to the area that contains the yellow key or switch for it or whatever. You know what I mean. Dirt is outside and that narrows it down pretty good.

Back on subject, everything about the way that this map looks is very pleasing to the eye and I can't think of anywhere you could improve it. I think there were a couple of grate flats thrown in on a couple floors that were new (to me) that added a nice extra little touch that I appreciated.

I noticed that some monsters were gone this time around and there were one or two more traps in here than I remember; I like the changes!

Ammo felt great on this map; health was a bit tight but with the soulsphere it was pretty forgiving.

I know I got that green armor before, but I forgot how to get it this time around and I didn't want to drag the demo on with the b/s of finding it too much, so I skipped it; but I liked the secrets.

Speaking of which, to Chris: sorry for the end of that demo; that was what I meant when I said that I went around and took another look. Don't look at it as dragging on; look at it as me admiring your work ;)

Back to TY45-15 from didy: as I said I liked the monster placement. Still, given the maps placement, there could have been a few tougher encounters; this map does not play like a map one would expect (in terms of difficulty alone) after all four of the previous maps. Still, the current enemies matched really well with the health and ammo, and there's nothing wrong with a shorter, easier level to break up the tough maps.

All-in-all, this was a fun map to quickly run through and I am really wouldn't mind seeing more like it added to this project! Great job didy!



I'm gonna try to record a demo prolly once or twice more for the two remaining maps; the tequila is starting to wear off so I think I can do better now. If not; giant, mono-textured walls of text incoming.



Fomalhaut
By: Mechadon


Failed Demo -complevel 9

Well this is as far as I'm gonna take it this time around. I made it almost to the end, in retrospect, but died with 658/782 at 44:54 right before picking up the red skull key.

I then finally swallowed my pride and played it in zDoom with saves... and didn't die once. Well f*ck me. Thanks Murphy, whoever you are.

Apparently there was only one big wave of cacos/revs/other that I had to face in that open area, plus a few guys and a pack of revs near the exit. If I wouldn't have died to that b/s that killed me I definitely would have made it. Shame. But this takes it pretty much all the way so hopefully it'll do good for you. Also, in this run everything associated with the yellow key (from the point I grabbed it) was blind, so hopefully that'll make it more useful to you. I got a bit lost in the red skull key area; but sorry for the long demo in general, as there were certainly areas that could have been done much faster and some needless backtracking.

Ok, so let me start by saying that I like how non-linear this map is. Apparently I was blind before when I missed the yellow key, go figure. I noticed that there was an optimal path to take on my final run, as reaching the SSG before the red key made that fight much easier and faster.

Speaking of fights, I didn't find the end to be as bad as people were saying it was. Then again on my final run I felt like the map wasn't that hard at all, but then again zDoom so that accounts for some of the ease. Still, I found the map to be much easier when the player goes for the BFG, then the SSG, then the red key and in all honesty cells were totally optional, so not picking up the plasma gun would prolly have been a good idea, lol.

Speaking of ammo, I really liked the way that it was balanced here. I constantly ran out of ammunition, forcing me to use everything at my disposal and to play conservatively. To the point where without that BFG I might've been hurting for ammo at a few points, but at the same time I bet it wouldn't be too bad to go through this map without cells at all. Towards the end ammo became vastly overabundant (especially with my use of cells and more specifically the BFG), to the point where I thought that something really bad was gonna happen, like a team of AV's and a cybie appearing in that big red skull key area, reviving all the dead monsters and shit. But nope; just more revs, meatballs, bulls and friends.

Speaking of those two monsters (AV and Cyber), props on not using them at all in the map. And props on using an SM.

I found 7/9 secrets. I did not figure out how to get the soulsphere by the switch that raises the bridge and there was one other that I couldn't find at all. Got the megasphere, the soulsphere by the beginning, and the SS by where I died in the demo, among others, but there was one that totally eluded me.

Health was nicely balanced for the opposition.

I think this map is perfect as-is! It's a ton of fun to play and I look forward to my next chance to tackle this thing, whenever that comes. Great job on this map; Mech!

Oh, I forgot to look at the updated sky and INTERPIC; guess I'll tackle that tomorrow.



Also, Sky Pillar v2 will be tomorrow. Prolly won't get a demo finished for it because of that Cyber, but I'll try one more time for it before zDoom-ing it up.

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Mechadon said:

The sky updates was just super subtle editing on the hellish galaxy in the TNT space sky. Really probably only stuff that I would notice, but I tend to be a perfectionist with these things sometimes :P


Somehow, looking at your work for Doom, this doesn't come as a surprise at all actually! :)

Fonze said:

Speaking of which, to Chris: sorry for the end of that demo; that was what I meant when I said that I went around and took another look. Don't look at it as dragging on; look at it as me admiring your work ;)

Back to TY45-15 from didy: as I said I liked the monster placement. Still, given the maps placement, there could have been a few tougher encounters; this map does not play like a map one would expect (in terms of difficulty alone) after all four of the previous maps. Still, the current enemies matched really well with the health and ammo, and there's nothing wrong with a shorter, easier level to break up the tough maps.


Ohh you, stop it! Hehe!

I totally agree with you on TY45-15 regarding its difficulty. It's one of the maps that really had me scratching my head as to where it would fit in. It would have been much easier if it was a tad more difficult. As I mentioned earlier, I am considering two things when it comes to making a map order: 1) Looks (aestethics and size) 2) Difficulty. And in this case #1 has precedence. But as you mention, I guess it's OK with a map that breaks up the toughness of the other maps a bit. Unless Didy feels like adding some more meat, I'm fine with the way it is. Afterall, it's a damn good map!

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I would really like to contribute! This contest...erm, I mean project has been really interesting for me to watch.

But how would I make a reference to Ty? I have no idea! (except ACS masterpiece, which, you know, can't be done :/ )

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Gustavo6046 said:

But how would I make a reference to Ty? I have no idea! (except ACS masterpiece, which, you know, can't be done :/ )


You are correct because this project runs in a source port which does not support acs.

If you really want to help, playtest these maps! As I and many other awesome people have been doing. It's extremely helpful to the mappers to get some thoughts on their maps before the final release, because we actually have time to change things now if they need it.

If you can't think of an appropriate tribute for Ty; don't worry about it. You don't have to submit a map to help this project. This project favors quality over quantity so it'd be better to make sure the maps we have are top quality!

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So what map should I FDA and share my thoughs in?

By the way, I think the best reference to Ty would be 69 candles in a outdoor area visible by a window. And a word "TY" carved in a stone!

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Gustavo6046 said:

So what map should I FDA and share my thoughs in?


Any and all :)

By the way, I think the best reference to Ty would be 69 candles in a outdoor area visible by a window. And a word "TY" carved in a stone!


Didy's map has got that first one covered. And a few maps got the second one. Go give em a shot and find em for yourself :)

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Thanks for the new demo Fonze, I enjoyed watching it :). I was trying to guess where you were going to die, and I was surprised it was in the water valley switch area (adding those Arachnotrons in a later update worked pretty well as additional pressure, heh). At any rate, I did find a few more tiny things that I wanted to fix and change after watching it, so here's yet another map update from me.

Fomalhaut v4
Changelog

There's probably not a whole lot left for me to tweak at this point, so I'll calm down on the revisions. But of course if there's anything gameplay-related you guys want me to address, I'll get right on it :)

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Fonze, thanks for the demo and the comments. As for the green armor secret room, you are right. After picking up the yellow key there is no way to get the green armor anymore. I will find a solution and fix it.

Chris, Fonze, you both are thinking it could have got a bit more action. Ok, I'll think about it...

Mechadon, Fomalhaut is absolutely beautiful with a fantastic progression - great map. When I got lost twice it was a pleasure to wander around. After researching I found out that Fomalhaut is the name of a star. I was a bit irritated when I pressed the switch tag 26, l27716 for rising s78, because nothing happened. I mean, I think that the floor didn't rise up, but maybe I just was blind (playing v2, Zandronum 1.2). After running around for a while I came back pressed the switch again and the floor was moving up as intended. Btw, your map gives me a lot of impressions for another project I am working on.

I have not yet played all the maps, but what I have seen so far, is really nice.

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Mechadon said:

Thanks for the new demo Fonze, I enjoyed watching it :). I was trying to guess where you were going to die, and I was surprised it was in the water valley switch area (adding those Arachnotrons in a later update worked pretty well as additional pressure, heh). At any rate, I did find a few more tiny things that I wanted to fix and change after watching it, so here's yet another map update from me.


Lol I wonder if knowing death was the outcome made it more interesting than if success was the known outcome. You're very welcome, though; I had a ton of fun over the last few days, failing at your map and Sky Pillar, usually due to some stupid mistake rather than general difficulty, but then getting discouraged and looking for happiness at the bottom of a bottle.

Unrelated:

Spoiler

Hadn't drank in at least a month and I went through almost a liter of Jose the past 3 nights (night before last I didn't drink or do anything Doom-related), but I still got ~.75 L to go so I'm still pretty sure it's down there. I'm so ready for Sky Pillar again and again. Off-subject; apologies.

Back on subject, yeah I died really stupidly on that demo. I was expecting something more because of all the ammo (and that blue armor) so I wasn't playing in the moment as I should have been; taking care of the monsters in a more efficient and timely manner (also, I really liked their timed-delay in showing up; that was a very nice touch). But I didn't find anything too difficult, in retrospect, so I hope your changes were minor; heh. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if you put some chaingunners or something on the side of the red key arena closest to the bridge, after watching my demo. Truth be told, I tried that area many ways and the best way I found was to kill the mancs, run back and forth, but to take less chances and spend less time on the chaingunner side because that was the worst place to get stuck; as I found out a few times before getting it down, lol. So if you do get stuck, get stuck as I did in the demo, on the bridge-side.

I look forward to my next chance to play this thing :)

didy said:

Fonze, thanks for the demo and the comments. As for the green armor secret room, you are right. After picking up the yellow key there is no way to get the green armor anymore. I will find a solution and fix it.

Chris, Fonze, you both are thinking it could have got a bit more action. Ok, I'll think about it...


My pleasure for that as well. Can't complain when I get to shoot stuff in the process ^^

I hope so! But it was really fun and balanced as-is so I could totally understand not wanting to fix what ain't broke.

Ah, that's right about the green armor. I had a feeling that was it after I searched and couldn't get to it when I knew I should have had it already. I'm pretty sure I did find that before too, as irony would have it, heh. But I don't know that it needs to be changed; there's nothing wrong with a one-and-done secret. Really, I liked all the secrets you put in.



Both of y'all (and so-far all of the mappers that have submissions here) did an excellent job on these maps and they were just a ton of fun to play through. Never mind that they were both beautiful and really cool to explore. I cant wait to see more people submit some demos for all of these maps. Playtesting has never been so fun ;p

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didy said:

Mechadon, Fomalhaut is absolutely beautiful with a fantastic progression - great map. When I got lost twice it was a pleasure to wander around. After researching I found out that Fomalhaut is the name of a star. I was a bit irritated when I pressed the switch tag 26, l27716 for rising s78, because nothing happened. I mean, I think that the floor didn't rise up, but maybe I just was blind (playing v2, Zandronum 1.2). After running around for a while I came back pressed the switch again and the floor was moving up as intended.

Thanks didy, I'm glad you enjoyed it! I'm not sure about the bridge raising bug; I doubled checked to see if there was a way to reproduce what you were describing, but it worked for me in both ZDoom and PrBoom+. I didn't try Zandronum so it's possible that there is something causing the problem there, but I would be surprised if that was the case. I will try it out in Zandronum too though and see what happens (I didn't originally because I missed what port you were talking about until I re-read your post :P).

Fonze said:

But I didn't find anything too difficult, in retrospect, so I hope your changes were minor; heh. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if you put some chaingunners or something on the side of the red key arena closest to the bridge, after watching my demo. Truth be told, I tried that area many ways and the best way I found was to kill the mancs, run back and forth, but to take less chances and spend less time on the chaingunner side because that was the worst place to get stuck; as I found out a few times before getting it down, lol. So if you do get stuck, get stuck as I did in the demo, on the bridge-side.

Actually I did do something here because I thought that choke-point might make the fight too trivial. Instead of putting some chainners in that area, I just sealed it off with a wall and made it passable once the player gets the RK. I thought that might be the better way to go since it keeps the player in the more open parts of the arena.

*edit*

Actually in hindsight, I'm not sure I like the RK gated solution. I'll probably change that up in a future update, sorry :P

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It's great to see that there's a lot of activity in this thread/project!

On a related note to all these revisions of the various maps:

To all mappers - especially new comers and maps undergoing updates - please use sky transfer (Boom trigger effect 271) in your maps. It would be a great help for me once I need to compile all the maps into one wad file if all maps uses the sky transfer effect. This way I can easily change skies according to the ones assigned to each "episode" if necessary. This only applies to new maps and maps undergoing changes at the time of writing. I've already made sky transfers in all maps currently submitted.

The skies currently used for each episode are as follows:

Episode 1 (tech): SKYBUBL3
Episode 2 (tech and gothic mix): SKYSTRN1 SKYSTAR1 SKYSTAR3
Episode 3 (gothic, hell): SKYCLDOR

Extraordinarily, "WormHell" by Z0k and Fonze also uses SKYMOUN1 and SKYDSKRD. These two skies can also be used by you in your map, but please only use SKYDSKRD as an additinal sky or in late episode 3 and SKYMOUN1 as an additional sky or perhaps as an alternative for an episode 1/2 map. Check in with me first if you want to use the SKYMOUN1.

If you've already made a map, you can see in the OP which episode your map is currently assigned to, so you can see what sky it will be paired with. Please speak up if you're unhappy with it.

If you're currently making a map, please take note of which episode your map might fit into, so that you can design your map to go with the correct sky for that episode. If you're in doubt over anything then let me know in this thread or in a PM and I'll try and help.

All skies are available in the ressource wad "sepTYtex[version number]".

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Mechadon, I checked thrice and it worked correct. I think I just have not seen that the floor was moving because I was attacked from behind and turned around right after pressing the switch for the first time. After cleaning out the room I pressed the switch again but nothing happened - sure, because the floor was allready up. So, It's fine. Hope I didn't waste your time too much.

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Did a bit of work on my map but have been busy in real life so it may take a bit of time. Working on a base-style map.

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Alright here's yet another map update from me. Main thing here is that I got rid of the RK barrier in the RK arena and changed up some other things around that area.

Fomalhaut v5
Changelog

didy said:

Mechadon, I checked thrice and it worked correct. I think I just have not seen that the floor was moving because I was attacked from behind and turned around right after pressing the switch for the first time. After cleaning out the room I pressed the switch again but nothing happened - sure, because the floor was allready up. So, It's fine. Hope I didn't waste your time too much.

Not a problem didy, I appreciate your help :)

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Mechadon said:

Alright here's yet another map update from me. Main thing here is that I got rid of the RK barrier in the RK arena and changed up some other things around that area.

Fomalhaut v5
Changelog

Not a problem didy, I appreciate your help :)


Finally got time for this map.

This map! This map has given me a splitting headache so I'm done on the computer for the night after this post. But this map was worth it. This map is the reason you are one of the few people whose work I keep in a separate idgames sub-folder by author name rather than by project name. And every time I see your graphics work I feel horribly inadequate.

Wow. Huge. Beautiful. Fun. Yes, I got lost. No, I didn't care. It wasn't lost enough to be frustrating. Lots of room to run away. I ran a lot. No extensive notes. Too much stuff to see and do. Random observations - Love the circularness of it. Wall drop, fight done, and I'm back to where I first entered the building. Ran from the Spiderboss. It got killed by Cacos long before I got back there. I was able to SR a couple of times to places I shouldn't have been able to get to. It allowed me to see/activate a few monsters early so I could shoot them from a distance. But I couldn't get too far, so I couldn't break anything. And I tried to. Well designed. Cursed your name when I realized the last door required Red Skull, not Card. Crap. Was then afraid I'd need all six keys and the map was even larger than I had seen. Only bug I found: Waterfall secret, linedef tag 98. Inherited sector properties. It rang up as seven secrets. A hell of a ride. Thank you and good night.

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pcorf said:

Did a bit of work on my map but have been busy in real life so it may take a bit of time. Working on a base-style map.


Excellent! Thanks for letting us know. Looking forward to it!

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Thanks for the kind words EffinghamHuffnagel, I'm really glad you enjoyed it!

Of course I forgot to de-secret that one secret when I drew shadows in it :P. That happens to me more often that I would like to admit. So I've got yet another version here with that fixed (along with more fixes and just a tiny bit more tweaking).

Changelog
Fomalhaut v6

That should be the last version from me for a while. Well at least until someone finds another bug :P

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I'm working on yet another map for this, I can't help it, I love mapping in the TNT style. This is shaping up so damn well, it's great to have so many talented mappers on board here. Updates to my other maps are still in the pipeline, rest assured

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Yes, I had the same experience - a wonderful, new way of acting/and mapping...

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