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Chris Hansen

THT: Threnody - released!

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Inspired by some of Jimmy's midis, I kinda have a gnarly reinterpretation of Prestidigitation that I'd like to try out. It'll probably take forever to develop, but maybe I'll give it a shot sometime soon. It'd make a good final map to the set—expect a lot of monsters.

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dobu gabu maru said:

Inspired by some of Jimmy's midis, I kinda have a gnarly reinterpretation of Prestidigitation that I'd like to try out. It'll probably take forever to develop, but maybe I'll give it a shot sometime soon. It'd make a good final map to the set—expect a lot of monsters.


Uhh! Very interesting! Make it so! :)

Doomkid said:

Hot off the press! Comes with a -complevel 2 demo, just because. The name is "Nukevil" for now but I'm open to suggestions. Hope you guys like it :) http://www.geocities.ws/doomkid/nukevil.zip


Took a brief look at it and watched the demo as well. Good job! A big improvement to your other two submission for this project! It looks indeed like you're getting more and more comfortable with the TNT base-tech theme but you've also got a good sense for using the textures and flats in stylish and confident way. I had a lot of problems with the starting area, that was a bit rough even on HMP which I play on per default. But I managed to get to the area with the Arch Vile before it smoked me into oblivion because I was low on health. And it seems like you're good at placing ammo, health etc. It seems like there's always something helpful to pick up just when you need it. My only minor gripe is that when you use STONE2 and STONE3 as much as you do, it becomes really obvious that you need to align them a bit better on the Y axis. More often that not the textures are cut off at the bottom and top. I recommend you go back and see what can be done about it.

Also, the platform with the switch operating a nearby door (I think there's a HK placed on the platform) could use some better lighting. The room surrouding it is brighter so the ceiling looks odd because the lighting is darker on the platform. But again, minor stuff, you don't have to "fix" it.

I'm glad to hear that you still plan to revisit the other two maps to update them, because they definitely need it when you show us levels like this. I look forward to see those updates soon! :)

EDIT: Played it again and this time I noticed some things that I feel can be improved:

Spoiler

















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Hi folks, I am very sorry about my absence recently, I have been busy with a jobby thing. However, I got myself some time and worked on my map a bit more:

Spoiler


A broken bridge thing that the player will be attacked on.


This is the cave area I showed off a couple months back, now there are some fences (just like the original map)!


Another minor area not present previously, this is where one of the keys is obtained.


You know that weird thing with the key on top? Yeah... Also, I think I will stick some more crates in here because why not?

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Ah, a new map; sweet! I'll give this thing a shot here in just a bit Doomkid and post my thoughts and an FDA as an edit in this post later on. I'll try and forget everything I read just now before I play it... Brb; killing brain cells.

That's really sweet to hear that this project is gonna get another dobu map as well; I can't wait to see it!

I'm also exited to see more screenshots from Surreily; they look fantastic! I know some people don't like the little height variations in the floor like you got on that broken bridge, but I don't mind it so much and I think it just looks really cool the way you made that thing look. That part sounds pretty interesting and I look forward to cracking it open when you finish it!

I hope Obsidian has been finding time as well to finish his map, as that's another one I look forward to.

To Mech: I really like your detailed changelogs as they allow me to see what you've done with each update when I can't just download the map and take a look. I think the changes I've read sound cool and well-thought out; I hope I get another chance soon to play the level.



Nukevil
By: Doomkid


What a fun map! Tbh, I didn't look at the walls and whatnot; too busy trying to survive, heh. But though I didn't notice any of what Chris was talking about, I would like to say that it's cool that we have someone here who takes a much closer look into the texturing, detailing and architecture; that's pretty sweet!

Here's a couple demos: failed, blind-FDA plus another with an exit; no idea what number that was, though, lol. I made these -complevel 9 because that's what the overall project is. Shouldn't be much difference, though, between 9 and 2 for this. Oh, both of them are around 15 minutes long.

I was reminded of Romero's new map with this one, and here's why: the beginning is very indicative of how the rest of the map will be. A rough beginning leads to a tough map throughout while a good beginning makes the rest of the map feel easy. Speaking of easy, ammo counts got a little abundant by the end of the map. You'll see in the second demo. But I thought that was a funny parallel between this and Romero's new map. Prolly due to a generally less-than-forgiving health pick-up situation after being battered so bad at the outset. But much like Romero's map, there's an easy way and a hard way to start the map, you just gotta experiment. And the beginning of the map is the best place to force the player to experiment, so that was pretty sweet. Also, apparently I got really lucky on my first attempt, because on further attempts I failed a good number of times straight-up in the beginning, lol (including a couple due to a rev shot curving back around on me after I thought it had exploded). Speaking of embarrassing deaths; you'll like how my FDA ends. Any guess as to what was going on during the 5 or so seconds between death and the end of the demo?

Spoiler

Drinking coffee; what? Whatd you expect?

The rest of the map wasn't really too difficult, save being whittled down by hitscans and the occasional error. I was hoping one of those two revs by the red key would shoot a homing missile at me so I could see if it'd hit the wall or not after remembering Chris's comment for that area. Speaking of which, I noticed that homing missiles fired by the first two revenants in the level towards the level start tend to come back around through the doorway. I think it was the second demo here, though it may have been one of the failed attempts, I didn't hear it explode and sure enough it was on my ass, heh. But by that point I knew to check because there was a definite pattern of that happening, which I found funny. Idk if you did that intentionally or not, prolly not, but it worked out well ;)

Given the difficulty and theme, I think Chris placed this thing right on the money in the over-all list of maps in the OP.

I was expecting another AV behind the little wall behind the second one, lol.

Speaking of AV's, that last one was a bit cruel, but somehow I made it through it.

I did find the dead-end a little weird, as well as the other dead-end that looked like a door by the 2 chaingunners overlooking the red key area. You'll see in the second (and maybe first, too?) demo that I skipped the Invul sphere because I was under the assumption that it would be used for something hard. I know how that sounds, but I was under the assumption that I'd be coming back to that door later on and something tough would be there, possibly guarding the exit.

Oh, the SSG cracked me up in the beginning; press use on it to get it? I hit use out of sheer curiosity and when it came down (I jumped because of an enemy, but) I just had to start laughing. I did not expect that so easy. Still, it helped a lot!

I also forgot to grab the RL on the last demo (the second one here, the only one I completed) for the majority of the map... somehow, lol. I had to go looking for it, so sorry about that extra time.

So health was a bit unforgiving and ammo was good for a while, 'til it got very abundant later on. Monster placement was very well done. I liked the use of the arachnotrons both in the beginning and by the chainsaw. Shotgunners were also used very well in this map, much as I hate them. Same goes for the chaingunners. The PE by the blue-locked gate was utterly pointless, as was that door being blue-locked. You really should unlock that door and allow monsters to open it. You'll see in my demo; there's nothing stopping the player from standing on the other side of the fence/impassable line and firing away (well, except pride).

I really liked the SS secret (in the same room as the first AV, by that pointless blue door)! That was pretty cool. I was surprised that the green armor was given so late and only as a secret with an SS.

I didn't figure out the first SS secret, which would have really rendered my FDA a victory, simply with the extra 100 hp. Apparently there were 2 other secrets that I missed, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Invul sphere counted as one *shrug*

There were a couple other things that I forget now, but if I remember them I'll post 'em up somewhere you'll see 'em. All-in-all this was a fun map to stomp through; great jerb, Doomkid!

*Further Edit*
So I watched your demo, Doomkid, and that was a bit of an eye-opener, lol. I can't believe I missed the green armor near the beginning! Never mind the SS I missed makes much more sense now (though if you don't mind, I'd suggest making the operating door the same texture as the receiving door, to make it a bit clearer that they're tied together). I guess I should have figured out the BFG secret, too, but I eventually figured I wouldn't go over there because I don't remember seeing any items down there. Usually that's my cue that I'm supposed to get there somehow. Those were some nicely designed secrets though.

I saw some of the stone textures that Chris had mentioned as well, some only showing the top half and bottom half of bricks towards the floor/ceiling (respectively). We did the same thing in WormHell and I gotta say I don't mind that quite so much as the other types of misalignments. The grey to green stone bricks were a bit strange upon closer inspection as well, as were the bricks next to each other that were at different heights, like the green to grey stone bricks' vertical alignment next to the yellow key. And the green to brown cement that Chris took a shot of as well. Idk what other ones he took but I know all that I noticed he has already covered, so I'll leave it at that. But I do think some of those need to be fixed.

In retrospect I don't think the blur sphere should be a secret. Honestly I think the SSG was/would be tougher to figure out. (or the green armor and berserk pack in the beginning which I did not figure out until watching your demo)

*More Ninja Editing*

TY45-15 v3
By: didy


Well didy, I tried man. Since getting D-Touch on the phone and learning it does indeed play demos, I figured I'd try to make one for you since your map is kinda small and not too difficult. I toned it down to HNTR because of touchscreen controls and... well, apparently there's not much difference between HNTR and UV in this map, heh. I think it could use some more health on HNTR, but then again these touchscreen controls at just too much for my little brain to handle, or some other short-person self-depricating joke.

Unfortunately I overrode my original try, so you don't get to see my "epic" battles with imp-on-roof or all the times I died within the first 60 seconds, but I figured I'd throw in the first one I did kinda good on (which is where I was about to call it before trying that one, last time; was already in the process of typing this when I figured I'd give it another shot), as well as the last one I did, which I actually did really well on, all things considered (which is to say I couldn't have played drunker if I was drunker; it's horrible, heh). The first, stupid demo is about 5 minutes long, the second, better demo is about 20 and I won't tell you where it ends because it'll be more suspenseful that way, heh, but I made it well over halfway.

I don't know what all changed, but I did like playing this map again. The TNT sign might have been new? Either that or I just didn't see it before. I don't remember those bulls on ground level last time I played either, but that could have been a difficulty thing; either way, it was cool.

Not much else to say; solid map. My only thing was health could have been more plentiful (especially on Easy mode) but given my last run I don't think I have the right to say that, heh. Anyway, great job here man; the map is beautiful and it's a fun play!

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Love the updates to your map, didy! It's clear that you amped up the difficulty without going too far. I noticed a lot of small changes throughout the map and while they are subtle, they do tend to have a good effect. I especially like that you've moved the Berserk near the end of the level. Good job and thank you so much for contributing with such an awesome level!

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Surreily said:

Hi folks, I am very sorry about my absence recently, I have been busy with a jobby thing. However, I got myself some time and worked on my map a bit more:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/GwYyDs7l.png
A broken bridge thing that the player will be attacked on.

http://i.imgur.com/V5jlhFpl.png
This is the cave area I showed off a couple months back, now there are some fences (just like the original map)!

http://i.imgur.com/JrzURBbl.png
Another minor area not present previously, this is where one of the keys is obtained.

http://i.imgur.com/qj7TZ9Al.png
You know that weird thing with the key on top? Yeah... Also, I think I will stick some more crates in here because why not?


Sorry, Surreily! Completely forgot to reply to this. Screenshots look bloody excellent and I'm genuinely looking forward to see how it plays. If it's only half as good as the screenshots, then I'm one happy project lead!


@Doomkid: Are you there, mate? We posted some feedback to your level, did you get a chance to read through it? Yeah, yeah, I know you probably did and I should just shut up ;) But I'm anxious to hear you response to it. Also, would you mind making a version of your map (or rahter maps when you update them) with sky transfers (action 271)? I noticed you've put in the Doom eps 1 sky, but your map will be using one of the night skies from sepTYtex2c.wad as it will most likely be placed as map06'ish. You can choose freely among Mechadon's excellent night skies in the ressource wad.

I won't be asking everyone else to make sky transfers unless they update their wads in near future, as I've already made sky transfers in almost all levels. But if you don't like me messing with your wads, then please, by all means, submit a map with sky transfers included :)

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Chris, there is a problem with the texture 3EXIDOOR when played with the port 3DGE. When I resize the texture from 64x96 to 64x128 than it is ok. So, if you want to replace the texture with the fixed version (64x128, see below) then everyone else who is using this texture should check their walls. If you want to keep the original texture (64x96 px) I am going to replace it - that's not be a problem for me.
download-link for new version of 3EXIDOOR, bmp, (also: 'texture1'-size via slade must be changed to 128):
http://www.mediafire.com/view/k3hi8vx31m65zvn/3EXIDOOR.bmp

problem accured



The Berserk at the end was (or still is) a placeholder. The idea behind it is that, when the maps are not played from pistol start there is a way to get 100% health for the next map. What do you think? I can delete it, or change it with a medikit.

Chris Hansen said:

I won't be asking everyone else to make sky transfers unless they update their wads in near future, as I've already made sky transfers in almost all levels. But if you don't like me messing with your wads, then please, by all means, submit a map with sky transfers included :)


I know about the sky transfer. But What do you mean? Are you going to use it in every map everywhere, is it really necessary? Should I use it, too? Will it work when an outdoor sector allready is tagged for example for a teleporter destination?

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Thanks didy! That's definitely something that we need to look into. It's nice to have as great a sourceport compatibility as possible, so it was good of you to report this problem with this texture and 3DGE.

Yes, it is necessary to use sky transfers in all maps, as we will be using more than the default 3 skies from Doom 2. As this is a Boom compatible projcet, we might as well use action 271 so we can use a given sky in any map we want. And the maps will be divided into episodes that don't really follow the Doom 2 skies default behavior i.e. when sky1 shifts to sky2 in map 11 or 12 and so forth. Our maps wont fit in with that logic. We will be using multiple skies and something like the first 5 maps will be using Mechadon's white, cloudy sky, while a map like WormHell uses three different skies in the same map. And so far, there's only 4 maps using the orange, clody sky for episode 3 and they'll be on something like map 12-15 (at the moment). In order to get consistency throughtout the episode, we need to use sky transfers in all of the maps.

It is really easy to use action 271, but it can be a bit of a tedious and lenghty task to find all sectors with F_SKY1 and tagging them. As I said, I've already done it to all maps that didn't already use 271 and yes, it took me a looooong time, but thank the maker for DoomBuilder's "find & replace" function! It softens the process up quite a bit! :) And to answer your question: Yes, a sector that already has a tag assigned to it i.e. a teleporter with F_SKY1 can also have action 271 linked to it. If you're interested in seeing how it's done, then I can send you a copy of your map (not the latest one, the one before it) where I've included 271. Just send me a PM and I'll provide you with a download link.

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Hey Chris, just something to think about here. I would suggest picking three skies that work well as "back-ups" for each theme, and then use them to replace the vanilla skies. That way for anyone playing the maps in a port that don't support MBF sky transfers (for whatever reason), there will at least be some backups that will still make use of the new sky textures (instead of the stock Doom skies). You'll get some inconsistencies, of course, but being that they would be back-up skies, I think that would be a minor concern.

Just a thought :)

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lol I'm sorry for not responding to the feedback - I read it all, agreed with at least 90% of it and got to work without actually saying anything. The updates will include proper sky transfers :)

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Cheers, Doomkid! Thank you. Also, I was wrong when I said that Nukevil will be using one of the night skies. I have placed the map in episode 1, so it will actually be using the gray sky. It's pretty difficult trying to place the maps in an order that makes sense, so if anyone isn't satisfied then please speak up and I'll have a look at it :)

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Ive got a little update of nukevil, fixes an issue with the blue key in multiplayer (d'oh) and adressed all the issues Chris pointed out. (Except the brown96 cutting off in the nukage - I think it looks weird when textures don't cut off into liquid flats, like the liquid was filled up too perfectly or something.) I'll be posting updates of the other two soon here as well.

http://www.geocities.ws/doomkid/nukevil.wad

EDIT: New version of CutThroat as well. I left the fish in a barrel in the blue room cause I enjoy pumping a couple rockets in on helpless enemies from time to time, but I addressed the other little uglies: http://www.geocities.ws/doomkid/cuthroat.wad


I totally don't know how to use sky transfers but will learn now, otherwise these 2 are set to go I think. Now I've just got to fix that other map up!

And here it is, the exit is no longer lazy bullcrap: http://www.geocities.ws/doomkid/forgtomb.wad

Any other little out of the ordinary things are likely intentional, and I still need to get those transfers in, but in terms of actual mapping I think that aughta do it :)

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Thanks for the updates! Will check them out asap.

Sky transfer is relatively easy. Just make a small control sector outside the map with plenty of linedefs. Tag them with action 271 and link them to every sector with a sky with appropriate tags. Apply the desired sky texture as upper texture (even though it's a one-sided linedef). I can send you an example if I didn't explain it properly so you can see for yourself. Or maybe just download Mechadon's newskytest wads as he included a level with plenty of sky transfers to show each sky in a different room.

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Excellent! I just now fixed up some major texture booboos in Cuthroat as well. Will get on those sky transfers now :)

EDIT: Just looked into how sky transfers work - I think it'd going to be too much of a pain for something I'm not really too fussed about. I'm fine with the default sky for my maps, I just feel like the work to result ratio isn't worth it for something I'm not picky about.

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Doomkid said:

Excellent! I just now fixed up some major texture booboos in Cuthroat as well. Will get on those sky transfers now :)

EDIT: Just looked into how sky transfers work - I think it'd going to be too much of a pain for something I'm not really too fussed about. I'm fine with the default sky for my maps, I just feel like the work to result ratio isn't worth it for something I'm not picky about.


I understand. But it's a bit of shame that you feel this way, because we need sky transfers in all maps and I had hoped you were up for the task. Yes, it's takes some time to find and tag all F_SKY1 sectors, but it's doable. And once again, here's the explanation as to why it's sorta mandatory for our maps: We are replacing the default skies with Mechadon's new skies and since the maps/episodes won't match Doom 2's sky system and since this is a BOOM project, the logical choice is to use the sky transfer option. But anyway, just post your updated maps here and I'll include the sky transfer in your maps for the final compilation.

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Chris Hansen said:

we need sky transfers in all maps.


Don't worry, I'll have sky transfers in my map and you can change the sky texture to the texture of your choice.

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Cheers, Paul!

New update to sepTYtex: didy has made a small change to the texture 3EXIDOOR and I have approved it and updated sepTYtex to version 2d. So far only his map uses this texture, so none of the other maps will be affected by it. The texture was 96 units tall and is now 128. OP has been updated with a download link to the new version.

@Doomkid: I played through your new map versions and I'm liking what I see :) I did spot a couple of misaligned textures here and there and some of the sprites need to be changed. This is mostly because our ressource wad changes things like hanging twitching corpse to a chandelier. There are also some trees that cut into your structures. If I have your permission I'll take care of it when I implement sky transfers in your maps. I won't touch anything else. Is that OK with you?

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That's totally OK by me - Also I didn't realize the sky transfers were a mandatory element, but anything you think needs changing you are absolutely free to!

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Looking good, Paul! This will undoubtedly be a great addition to this project!

BTW, I noticed something that I didn't know about you: There are no sprites whatsever in those screenshots. No decorations, no nothing. Do you wait with implementing them until you start putting monsters in? It wouldn't surprise me if you wait with monsters until the layout is done, but I would have never guessed that you'd wait with decorations as well :)

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I don't know if I will ever finish that megachurch type level, I think the problem I had was overambitious as well as it getting too large (esp. filling gaps & guesswork) and my creativity went into the shitter. I am considering putting it up for anyone who wants to work on it after I strip the high resolution resources out of it.

In case anyone needs a refresher, it is this:



If there's any takers, let me know.

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Chris Hansen said:

Looking good, Paul! This will undoubtedly be a great addition to this project!

BTW, I noticed something that I didn't know about you: There are no sprites whatsever in those screenshots. No decorations, no nothing. Do you wait with implementing them until you start putting monsters in? It wouldn't surprise me if you wait with monsters until the layout is done, but I would have never guessed that you'd wait with decorations as well :)


I'll sort the gameplay and other stuff out later. Just focusing on architecture and layout right now. There are some trees in the outdoor area behind the starting area.

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Chris, thanks so much for making those improvements to my submissions - The texturing is far more appropriate in some of the previously 'half baked' nooks and crannies, and you really did get creative with Forgotten Reaches, love that new texture scheme and the tweaks really do add up to make them largely improved. Great stuff!

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You're welcome, Doomkid. It was a pleasure working on your maps :)

And in case someone's wondering what the hell we're talking about, then here are download links to Doomkid's three maps that have all been slightly revamped by me.

Nukevil
Cut Throat
Forgotten Reaches

@Glaice:
Thank you for letting us know about your current status/situation with your map. While I really dig what you're trying to do with this map, I'm not really sure that it would fit in with the rest of this project. It would have to undergo some major revamping in order to do so. I don't have the time to take on that challenge, so unless someone else is willing to give it a go, then I think it would be best if you park it on your harddrive and pick it up again later on when you feel like working on it again. It would be nice to see it released some day in one form or another as it really looks like it's way too good to scrap :)

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Hi y'all,

I am unfortunately going to have to drop out of this one. I am currently unable to work on my map due to time constraints with a potential job and stuff, and I don't really know where I am going with it. I think it's grown out of control at this point in time, I don't know, I might release it in the future. I'm very sorry about this :(

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Ah, that's a bummer Surreily; I was really looking forward to playing it, but I'll keep an eye out for it later. Good luck with your potential job :)

Also, my apologies for being absent from this project for a little while.

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