Rebuilding nodes ?

[VGA]

Are users of software renderers rebuilding the nodes of old wads? I'm playing some 1993-4 wads and encountering some glitches, I figured out ZDBSP to remake the nodes into extended uncompressed ones should improve things a lot.

But what about wads that use REJECT tricks to make monsters blind etc? Like in Requiem's MAP02? I tried to use the -E parameter to keep the REJECT lump the same but then no enemy can see. If I use the -r parameter to remove them then the tricks don't work of course.

[BaronOfStuff]

I did this to a few maps of NJDOOM when I recorded a playthrough of it three or so years back. Stuff was turning invisible for no good reason, etc. so I figured "fuck it" and fixed problem maps where appropriate.

[scifista42]

VGA said:

But what about wads that use REJECT tricks to make monsters blind etc? Like in Requiem's MAP02? I tried to use the -E parameter to keep the REJECT lump the same but then no enemy can see. If I use the -r parameter to remove them then the tricks don't work of course.

You can open the wad in SLADE3, copy the original REJECT lump into a temporary location (another wad, or export as a file), then rebuild nodes of the map, then copy the original reject lump back.

Maybe it won't work - I don't know.

[fraggle]

Yes, that will work. REJECT is indexed by sector so as long as the level doesn't physically change (all vertices, linedefs, sectors are the same) then it should be fine.

[VGA]

Isn't that the same that ZDBSP's "-E" parameter should be doing?

I even tried combining -X, -E and that no-prune parameter. And the monsters were blind in prboom+.

[scifista42]

From ZDBSP's documentation on ZDoom wiki:

--no-reject or -E
This option makes ZDBSP copy the REJECT lump from the old wad to the new wad unchanged. However, if it detects that the old
REJECT is the wrong size for the number of sectors in the map, it will be removed as if you had used the --empty-reject option.

If you open the wad in SLADE3 after rebuilding nodes, and see the REJECT lump's size to be zero, ZDBSP possibly "detected the wrong size" and cleared the lump anyway.

[VGA]

Well if I use the -X -E parameters on TEUTIC.WAD and check the output in SLADE, there are normal sized non-zero REJECT lumps. But when I load it, the enemies are broken/blind.

Maybe because:
----E3M1----
Removed 7 unused sectors.

EDIT: And when I add the -q parameter to avoid messing with the sectors, then the output is:
----E3M1----
BSP: 100.0%
REJECT is the wrong size, so it will be removed.

[Maes]

Many source ports (especially ZDoom-based) will rebuild the nodes automatically anyway.

[VGA]

So without the no-prune (-q) command it removes the unused sectors and keeps the REJECT lumps, but with the no-prune command it complains that the REJECT lump is the wrong size and zeroes it.

Am I missing something here?

EDIT: I'm doing my tests on prboom and Doom Retro so there's no source port node rebuilding.

[Edward850]

Hmm. Half asleep when I first read that, and somehow thought you were pruning sectors and getting the issue.
It's likely the original node builder also pruned the sector count.

Maes said:

Many source ports (especially ZDoom-based) will rebuild the nodes automatically anyway.

Only if damaged or missing.

[VGA]

Did some more digging and testing, it seems that self-referencing (invisible) sectors are yet another trick that sometimes gets screwed over by the node builder.

Time to raise the white flag and drop this idea of manual node rebuilding!

[VGA]

lmao and in the very next map I play I bump into an invisible wall which some ZenNode rebuilding fixed.

(TEUTIC.WAD's fifth map around coords -833, 640)