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Tristan

TNT: Revilution - Shifted to open development (alpha release)

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Figure I'd say that one of the E1 maps, likely Map 11, will be named Halderman Station, in honour of Ty. Similarly, Map 30 will be named The New Technology.

Joe, we dont reject maps. If a map doesnt make it to the 32 main maps, it goes inside a second wad, Convilution

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Last rites, yeah. We decided to replace it though and therefore the old name didn't need to stick around.

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Gotta admit, its pretty funny having both teams think of the same name for the same mapslot.

Its almost impossible to think of a good name for this map ._.

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Ragnor said:

Joe, we dont reject maps. If a map doesnt make it to the 32 main maps, it goes inside a second wad, Convilution


It's not in the Convilution list either.

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I was juuuuust about to quote the bit in your post where you said you'd do the list later.

3 times.

In underline bold caps.

Oh well.

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Edit: Old link, scroll down the page for new one.

Hello everybody, you may have noticed at the bottom of the OP that Eris & I have decided to make the maps moved to Convilution available for everyone to see. Most of the maps contained in here you will have already seen, but there are a few you haven't. Me & Eris have decided to remove more than just these maps, but we are waiting on a third opinion from Demon of the Well before we decide to officially cut them out & put them into Convilution. So far Demon is up to map 16 of the Revilution so these were all removed from the first half of the wad.

Convilution

Map01 - Nightmap by Olympus
Map02 - DMP Sand by Kyka
Map03 - Graytech Harrow by Kyka
Map04 - Compute Err Stay Shun by Archi & Kyka
Map05 - Lithosphere by Melon, Kyka, & Megamur
Map06 - Checkout by joe-Ilya
Map07 - Decay by mrthejoshmon

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Okay so here is another release of Convilution, this now contains all the maps that Eris & myself have decided to remove from E1 & E2 of the main wad. We are still in debate over what to remove from E3, but Demon of the Well & AD_79 are both playing through it as well to help us make a decision.

Convilution

Map01 - was Map02, Nightmap by Olympus
Map02 - was Map03, DMP Sand by Kyka
Map03 - was Map04, Graytech Harrow by Kyka
Map04 - was Map05, Compute Err Stay Shun by Archi & Kyka
Map05 - was Map09, Lithosphere by Melon, Kyka, & Megamur
Map06 - an E1 map, Checkout by joe-Ilya
Map07 - was Map14, Decay by mrthejoshmon
Map08 - was Map15, Untitled by Kyka & Alterworldruler
Map09 - was Map16, The Wings by 40oz
Map10 - was Map17, Sting Theory by Kyka & Alterworldruler
Map11 - was Map18, Untitled by Kyka & Alterworldruler
Map12 - was Map19, Crud Refinery by Kyka & Xenonemesis

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It is nice to see some activity here, but why not finish the megawad already? You know, instead of just talking about rejected maps, etc. What are people waiting for? I agree with some poster, who's name I forgot, that a good way to honor Ty would be to finish these two TNT sequel projects.

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Yeah it's not like we're still making progress behind the scenes at all.

A new map was submitted like three days ago, and Demon of the Well is currently playing through the set giving his thoughts on the maps.

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Sokoro said:

It is nice to see some activity here, but why not finish the megawad already? You know, instead of just talking about rejected maps, etc.


We're not just finishing this megawad already because we've just removed 12 maps that were not to the Quality level that we are looking to have in Revilution, & there will be more removed in the coming days.

Sokoro said:

What are people waiting for?


We're waiting for some people to make us some new maps for all the slots that recently opened up. The OP lists 8 map slots that are open, but that's not entirely accurate because we have a number of people working behind the scenes on maps.

Sokoro said:

I agree with some poster, who's name I forgot, that a good way to honor Ty would be to finish these two TNT sequel projects.


Both of the TNT sequels will be finished, I talked with the guys behind TNT2 awhile back & they are even closer to being done than we are. When making sequels to a classic megawad such as Evilution you don't want to just rush it out the door half-assed like most community projects seem to do. Progress is going slow for us because we want to ensure the quality of the product that we release, I'd give up any hope that you may have of seeing this project completed this year.

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Hi all, Since it's the end of the month I figured it's time to give everyone a quick update on whats been going on behind the scenes.

On the testing side of things we're still waiting on a few of our play testers to make it through E3 to finalize what we are keeping & what will be moved over to Convilution, but it's looking like 3 or possibly 4 more maps will be cut out of Revilution.

As for new maps, we do have a new E1 map from Cannonball & it's mostly finalized as of a few weeks ago, we just haven't decided where in E1 it will go. Phobus is still working on a new map 21, though things are going slow for him right now, he may have something to show us in a few weeks time. I sent a number of PMs to various mappers I thought could really help bring the quality of this project up to a new level, the first up is Chris Hansen who is well into making a great looking map which I get more & more excited to play every time that I see it. SteveD had also started progressing on a couple maps for us, though I've yet to hear back from him on how things are going. Finally we have a very special guest mapper, Sverre Kvernmo, who as you can see is trying to get back into vanilla mapping before he starts anything for us.

On another note we do have a couple new midis in the works from veteran midi maker Jeremy Doyle.

Finally there are a few other mappers, that I won't mention yet, that may possibly be making us some maps in the future, but right now their schedules are a little too busy. I'll also take this time to say that we still do need quite a few maps from people so if you are interested in joining this project just send either Eris or myself a PM & we'll get you the texture pack.

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Hi everyone. I'm happy to be on board here. Here are my two map efforts so far, hope they're to your liking:

They're still missing difficulty settings (which I take it we're implementing?), so presume UV level of difficulty.

The Divide (divide.wad)
- Early episode 1 entry, if included. Map 02 or 03 slot intended.
- For play testing, map is currently map 02.
- Designed as mostly a berserker rampage against low level enemies. Very few weapons, and those there are, are hard to get to. Hope this isn't an affront, the map might be hard from pistol, but as a part of the episode experience, will of course be much easier when people bring previous arms to the start.
- Very low level enemies, bar the odd lonely mid-level monster.
- Currently missing multiplayer things.
- no SSG, BFG or plasma.

Pitchfork (pitchfork.wad)
- Late episode 1 entry intended (map 08 or 09?)
- For play testing, map is currently map 01.
- The start is hard, but once you master the opening hall (whether straight away or delayed after a fall-back), it should be fairly straight ahead.
- no SSG, BFG or plasma.

Both require the project texture resources (am I ok to add to these by the way, and if so, how do I do so? just add the new textures inside to the map wads?).

No new midi's have yet been added, though I'm excited by this prospect! Should I listen through the set and select two, or is that the composer's prerogative? (musician prerogative is how we did it with the original Eternal Doom anyway)

Please let me know what changes might be required.

If they're good enough I might cough up another. If they're headed for Convilution, I'll probably focus on my other wads instead. Been awhile since I did vanilla mapping, so I might be a bit unsteady on my feet...

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I played both of Soundblock's maps. My biggest issue with them is the distinct lack of threat. I never once felt like I was in any sort of danger (with the exception of Pitchfork's start, at least somewhat). You can have a map feel dangerous and still be easy, by the way! Another thing I noticed, the layouts and architecture are surprisingly basic. As they currently are, both maps consist largely of rather flat-feeling rectangular rooms and corridors. I know you can do better than that :P

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We prefer mappers to choose the midis they like from the list. When I assigned music to the slots to fit episode themes as a placeholder while maps were largely missing (I did this so I could hear the midis ingame while testing, since we got so many midis early on), several mappers complained about losing their freedoms. So yeah, we'll only assign tracks if the mapper doesn't choose one (All unused tracks get used in Convilution too, provided the composer doesn't object)

I'm personally not opposed to extra textures, as its a very TNT thing to do (Several TNT maps did just this, notably Drake's maps), just make sure they fit the theme

I hope you can get the hang of vanilla again; there's nothing like the raw brutality of the CABAL maps :)

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Well, I disagree, but I guess its a matter of taste. Lets see if I can at least make the backside of my medallion carry some merit.

No threat:
- As megawads go, I like it when they start off nice and easy, and let the pace and pressure increase as the player's trail grows long. If you put the pedal to the metal from Map01, it leaves less room for ramping up towards the mid and end sections. I’m mapping for the difficulty needs as I see them, but I may be reflecting more my own tastes than TNT history, which would be a mistake on my part. However, I’d like more consensus before I beef up the threat (and difficulty) level. More shotgunners should adress this criticism.

Flat:
- Differences from my earlier efforts are inevitable. They were made "blind" using DEU and DETH, when my Doom game was at its height and the fires of hell lit my contour whenever I entered a room. I shouldn't be expected to compete with that now, but rather to live up to the stated project goals, as they are. Like any other mapper. I've had precious little direction to go off from so far, bar entertaining a "sense of adventure" and to reflect the signature content from the original TNT Evilution (which I must admit I'm currently playing through for the first time, though I hasten to add that I’m taking notes as I play). Other than that, I guess I’m wary of adding too much verticality, as vanilla compatible also means no up/down looking should be required to finish a map. Perhaps partially due to a hand injury that makes mouse-looking painful to me, my tastes over the years might have evolved towards more deep and level views, rather than the bumpy rollercoaster neck-wrenching terrains I see are the haute coutoure of Doom in the 2010s. They’re very cool. But like anything, samey if repeated ad nauseam. Is this a matter of AD's tastes in maps, or am I actually failing a basic project goal, compared to what the TNT Evilution branches stand for?

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I absolutely love the simplistic style in your maps. I took a little tour via the editor and I really liked some of the design choices you made. Unfortunately I can't play them since I don't have the texture pack anymore(I did map01) but they look like fun. BTW, Sverre Kvernmo, I've seen that name somewhere but I can't exactly remember where.

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Map01 is a stormer, don't know how you fit all that expansive terrain under the visplanes limit. Its proving a hard act to follow!

SFoZ911 said:

BTW, Sverre Kvernmo, I've seen that name somewhere but I can't exactly remember where.


Guess I'm between the lines here somewhere:

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sverre_Andre_Kvernmo_%28Cranium%29
http://www.monstercute.com/links.html

Gosh, feel like I'm writing a job application now.

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I think you did a wonderful job Soundblock. You have a talent for making even simple areas look interesting with some special features in them. And these maps are very unpredictable because your mapping isn't plagued with overdone modern tropes. It's always such a warm feeling when I pick up a key and don't get punished for that by teleporting monsters. If you want, you can watch the demos of my playhthrough.

A couple of notes:

the-divide.wad
- there are some hanging corpses you can't walk under near the blue key room.
- some doors have DOORSTOP on the sides, other don't (like sector 190), is that how you want it?

pitchfork.wad
- that soulsphere is considered a secret, really? the teleporter to it is in plain view, in fact I'd say it's more noticeable than the lift.
- wrong ceiling flat for sector 81? (maybe should be BRIKFLT2)

Hope this helps.

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Soundblock said:

Map01 is a stormer, don't know how you fit all that expansive terrain under the visplanes limit. Its proving a hard act to follow!


To be honest, I don't really remember if it's under the limits. I haven't touched it for a while now. I hope the testers/quality controls guys will break it apart to find those overflows!

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Thanks for the positive re-encouragement. Means a lot (not that the previous brutal honesty is worth any less - but its always nice to know one didn't completely miss the mark).

Memfis said:

If you want, you can watch the demos of my playhthrough.

Sadly I can't run Boom properly on my machine (something in hardware or software disagrees with it, making it run in slow-motion), which I assume you need to run the demos?

Memfis said:

the-divide.wad
- there are some hanging corpses you can't walk under near the blue key room.
- some doors have DOORSTOP on the sides, other don't (like sector 190), is that how you want it?

pitchfork.wad
- that soulsphere is considered a secret, really? the teleporter to it is in plain view, in fact I'd say it's more noticeable than the lift.
- wrong ceiling flat for sector 81? (maybe should be BRIKFLT2)

- I had missed that corpse being blocking!
- The doorstops were at least thematic in that small doors had them and large doors didn't, but I went ahead and set them all to doorstop anyhow, in the process finding some other irregularities with the doors now fixed.
- the soulsphere secret was perhaps a little much, so I reduced the double secret area down to just one. The idea was that since you very often see multiple teleporters out of the corners of damage pits, but very rarely do any of them do anything other than just plop you back top (at least none in Doom II did), then this would be one of those teleporters but it actually hid a secret. Didn't work so well, I'll save the idea for a larger pit I think.
- Well spotted on telling the difference between CEIL5_2 and BRIKFLT2 in the dark.

EDIT:
WADs are now reuploaded with bugs fixed. Old links should still work.

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You can watch the demos in Chocolate Doom, PrBoom+ or any other engine that is compatible with vanilla Doom. Boom was made for MS-DOS so it might not run well on modern systems, Chocolate Doom should definitely work for you I think.

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Hello again everybody, as you may have noticed we have allowed Soundblock to post his maps here in the thread. Me & Eris Falling have talked about it & have decided to not keep the development of this wad private any longer.

Here is Revilution
Here is the texture pack

We have decided to do this for a number of reasons, first of which is that outside of Phobus & Cannonball no one has volunteered to make any maps for this project. A lot of the new maps that will be coming in the next few weeks will be from people I personally sent PM's to seeking maps from them. Now I have had some success with this getting such people as soundblock to join, but we really can't expect to finish the entire project just by asking specific individuals to make us some maps.

One of the reasons I believe that we have a lack of volunteer mappers is because people are probably simply unaware that we really need quite a few mappers to join in order to finish this project. If every change is made to the wad via PM then Revilution never gets to page one of Doomworld & people either don't see it or simply forget about it.

Another reason is we simply lack a strong core testing team. It's basically Eris, Myself, & AD_79 testing the project with some input from Demon of the Well every few weeks. By posting the maps here in the thread we will be able to get the feedback that we need in order to ensure the quality of Revilution.

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Soundblock, I only played pitchfork so far so I can only speak for that map, but to be honest, it didn't seem that great. I'm agreed with AD, the layout is pretty basic, and I believe you can do better. The map as-is would need working on to be included imho. I understand the idea of the starting WADs off with some easy maps, but easy and uninteresting aren't synonymous, and pitchfork has both of these traits sadly.
Those archways are pretty cool though, such tricks are always appropriate in a TNT project :D

The above discussion is a prime example of why this project would be better off shifting to open development.
So after some discussion with Jaws, we'll be doing that. I'll sort this out soon.
EDIT: oh lol, ninja'd

Double edit: OK, the OP has been updated with the links. Maplist also updated to include cannonball's map, currently in 08.

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