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Doomkid

DWANGO: 21st Anniversary (FINISHED! Come and get it)

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Dwango21 is finally ready! Download it here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/j5vigqm0ba0a67b/dwango21.zip

Mirror: http://www.grandpachuck.org/files/wads/dwango21.zip

Happy 21st Anniversary! DWANGO is now officially old enough to buy booze. Due to the popularity of the Dwango 20th anniversary mappack (DWANGO20.wad), I decided to start up a project with a similar but slightly different vision. Last year, we gave the DM mappers of the 90's the spotlight and focused on a true OS-style, however this year we've switched to focusing on the current community. This is a blend of the old and the new - It breathes fresh blood into map themes and layouts heavily inspired by our old favorites (and is definitely not to be taken too seriously!)

After we all worked our butts off, we ended up with 25 maps:

01- Dwango 21st Anniversary - Doomkid
02- Deimos Deathmatch - NoneeLlama & the_miano
03- Death Trap - Deathtrap
04- Splattercourt - Captain Toenail
05- Cat and Mouse - Deathtrap
06- Lockdown - Captain Toenail
07- Base E2 - NoneeLlama
08- Threshold - Cpt. Toenail & Joe-Ilya
09- Killing Spree - Captain Toenail
10- The Devil's Playground - Inkie
11- Circle of Death! - Doomkid
12- Hydromatch - BloodyAcid
13- Bold and Brash - Doomkid
14- Day 2 Die - Captain Toenail
15- Raging Elements - Fred512
16- E1M1 DM - Doomkid
17- Phobos Dungeon - Doomkid
18- The 6th Gate - Ronald
19- Spilling Blood - Deathtrap
20- The Unholy Cathedral - Chris Hansen
21- Canyon Installation - Joe Pallai
22- Wooddeath - Cacowad
23- Dieangle - Peter Kasting
24- Another Bloody Circle - Doomkid
25- Slasher - Doomkid


Screenshots:









I hope you all enjoy Dwango21! It was a lot of fun getting people together to craft these maps, and I think they make a fine addition to the family.

Happy fragging!

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I'll make a map for this when I get the chance. I've never made a DM map, so I'll have to check the ones you posted and keep in mind what you said, but I think it'll be fun. Gonna be a bit before it's done, though.

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Just a tecnical question, how many DM spawns a map should have? 8 or 16 or...? Since i don't have a clue about it.

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I have no idea if this level is what you're looking for, but I wanted to share it here in case it is :) I haven't got much experience with DM levels and have only made a couple of them through the years. This level was made for last years Mayhem2048, but never got included. DM levels wasn't what they wanted, which I totally understand. So, basically, even though it was posted in the Mayhem2048 thread, I considder this level to be work in progress and it has never been officially released. Me and SteveD talked about making a slaughtermap out of instead, but I've dropped that idea since he doesn't have a lot of sparetime for making levels and because I have even less experience with making slaughtermaps!

Anyway, enough rambling. Here is a download link to the level in case it's usable for this project. I think it might suit your requirements. If it isn't at all, then just ignore it completely and I'll be on my way ;)

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Chris Hansen, have a seat, Thank you

This is the makings of Capture the Flag map. It has a persistent grand flow, excellent style, really understands what feels to be Dooming. All that being said, please make those stairs curved out by some dimension, those footsteps can't be all at 90 angles when you're the Doomguy moving into town at 55 mph / 88 kps which translates to the velocity at which a player moves, in any player vs player mode. Make those staircases a little more rounded out so 2 players could duke it out properly, there needs to be room to dodge SSG shots; it would also let players move more efficiently while conducting a solo "sweep" of the map.

*Overall you may keep the exact same volume of space, just approach the height acclimation a twitch differently.* In a sense, you ought to drag vertices into donut or crescent shapes.

The reason why I say it could be a CTF map is just how big it is. There is a lot of space in this map, relatively speaking, and it would look great hooked up to a junction point to create identical bases and have players running back and forth to score points. ZDaemon and Zandronum are places to try out such mechanics (here's a link to the flag numbers and spawn points as far as the Thing numbers go).

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Wow, I'm really pleased with what you guys are showing so far :)

Voltcom9, considering you don't play DM and have never made a map for the gamemode, this is a great effort. This looks like a duel map - Wouldn't want more than 2 people here. My only compaint is that the trees in the middle are a little obstructive and some of the corners are slightly too tight, but honestly I'm digging it so far!

Chris Hansen, this map features some really stellar visuals! Love the cathedral/hall feeling. Cuppy gave some great advice, and this would be perfect for CTF, but if you're willing I'd love to include this. There may be some slight tweaks needed (will find out thru playtesting) but overall, very fancy stuff.

NoneeLlama, this map is 100% my style. All I can really say is, it's very large - Would you be interested in possibly dividing it into two maps? I think that overall this captures the "classic deathmatch" feel really well with it's E2 vibe. Everything about it just appeals to me. As is it would make a fine DM map for 4-6 people, but with what I'm putting together I'd like it to be playable with just 2. Great stuff though, very classic.

BaronOfStuff, rofl, I know Judas23 is overplayed as shit, but I think for some not-so-DM-centric players, it does give a decent example of a duel map. SSL2 is a billion times better anyway though ;)

I have a few further comments/critiques/bits of advice but I need some time to get everything worded properly and maybe even craft some little examples.

Keep it coming folks! Wonderful stuff so far!

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Thanks for the comments, TheCupboard! I never knew it would be better suited as a CTF map, but as I said, DM isn't my strong point ;)

@Doomkid: Feel free to include this level if you like. You are also more than welcome to make any changes to it that you feel are necessary for it to better suit your requirements. I'm glad you guys approve of the map in general as I really feel it's too good a map to be left to rot on my harddrive. If you'd rather I make some changes to it myself, then please let me know. But as I said, I'm perfectly fine with you editing it yourself :)

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This project now has a clearer and more focused vision. I'll leave more comments/info soon, and will also iron out the mapinfo errors in the current build, but take a gander at whats there - It's the current texture resource pack and also contains examples of what's included thus far and the style(s) I'm looking for. Enjoy!

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Superluigieth1 said:

Any new textures? (like exec.wad and gothictx.wad)

Just got the resource pack posted :) Glad you're on board!

Cacowad said:

Well, here's a map i lazily put together yesterday; nothing stellar, just an excuse to get back to mapping.

It's not stellar, but it's not bad - Just a little repetitive in the texturing department, and the layout is slightly odd, but you clearly show the ability to make great DM maps. To answer your earlier question, 5-8 spawns is generally a good number, depending on map size of course.

mrthejoshmon said:

I would love to try and do a map but I can never make anything outside of a duel map, I can't make it flow.

Nonsense - I'm always here to help if you have a decent map idea but can't make it "flow". It helps a lot having a second pair of eyes to give feedback and input on your DM maps!

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I'm actually really surprised that people want another DWANGO wad. I'm also surprised that DWANGO20 got so popular especially on Odamex. My map is already submitted to this and I believe that it's in the latest build.

Rule of thumb is quality over quantity. There is no need to have all of the map slots (32) taken up in my opinion.

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Cacowad said:

Welp, could not resist in changing it a little bit, more or less the same but with a little more space in it: https://www.mediafire.com/?ccf5z3up6ihl5vf

Seems a legitimate concern to me, so feel free to discard my map if there are better already submitted.


I'm going to be honest, most people nowadays highly dislike any DM map with a symmetrical outline. I personally don't have much of a problem with them and in the past I've made quite a few symmetrical maps, but for some reason it just doesn't do it for the newer generation of Doomers. I would recommend that you restructure your map a little more making it less symmetrical just to make the gameplay more interesting. You know, lifts, new routes, maybe some obstacles, etc... By the looks of your map, I like the concept of a wooden arena theme. It comes across to me as late 90's/early 2000's style which is typically fair by my books. For others, I'm not sure. If I were to imagine, the newschool Doomers/mappers (you know those narcissistic jerks from Zandronum) would probably find it boring looking and unoriginal. Just by the size of the map, I would say that it is meant for 8 players for FFA. It may also be suitable for 4 on 4 team deathmatch or last man standing too. I think anything under 8 players would most likely have a long and drawn out gameplay. Again this is just my opinion. I haven't play tested it with bots or with actual people so I can't make any definitive judgement on the gameplay of your map.

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Well, can't disagree with the zandronum folks then! It is a really simmetrical and texturless map (since it started as a rectangular box, go figure). The main problem with this layout is that no matter how you refactor it, it is going to be simmetrical or unbalanced toward one side (the bfg or the Rl more likely), and the spawn points would become suddenly unbalanced too, since we will have some closer to the "good" weapons, thus giving an unfair advantage (right now there is only one unhealty spawn point, the far low-right one, which i could potentially remove or change location).

That said, i'll try to refactor it in some way, and if i succeed, it will probably not be the same map in any way.

EDIT: apparently zandronum does not like 0-sided lines, i'm going to fix this.

EDIT2: A tentative v3 is up: https://www.mediafire.com/?5j4v6uttuxny8td

i gave it a quick test with bots on zandronum... and i'm leaning toward beliving this map is too big for 8 players, maybe 10-12 could be more appropriate. However the last DM i did was on brit10 with 10+ players, so i may be a bit off with my judgment.

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Definitely looking far better, Cacowad. The layout now looks far more suitable for deathmatch. It's still a quite large map, but your refinements are shaping up well.

Here's the current build, standing at 24 maps - http://www.mediafire.com/download/ma2zkt99uzw15ud/DW21C.zip

Fixed a butt-ton of mapinfo buggery and some missing textures. Chris Hansen's map looks wonderful, but the texture animations seem to have been stuffed up - I'll have to go through and recreate everything with an ANIMDEFs lump, that should still work in the 3 deathmatch ports.

More to come!

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Alright, I took a look at the latest build (Version C). Some of the new midis are good while I feel like some should be removed. My favorite midis are in MAP08 and MAP11. I would like to see more midis that are similar to the one in MAP11.

What I like to look for in a good DM wad besides well playing maps is a consistent theme. I'm noticing that these maps are very diverse and pretty much all over the place. It's like it starts out looking like a dark/sinister version of a DWANGO5 remake of MAP01, then transitions to a vanilla themed map that resembles a Judas23 or DWANGO5 MAP02 theme. After that it transitions to a POBLA inspired map with a few custom textures, then back to a dark/sinister theme similar to most of the maps in ZMatch: 3rd strike, then back to POBLA, etc..... There is even a gothic looking map (which looks very nice by the way) but it just feels so out of place. It's like this project is going for all out assortment of themes, which kinda bugs me a bit because it creates a sense of dissonance

I would really like to see the entire mapset resemble these themes and not deviate to Exec or Gothic:
- Judas23_ (Map23)
- TheHook (Map01)
- Dwango12 (Map12)
- King1 (Map01)

Another thing that I have a problem with is that some maps are small and ideal for duels while the majority of the maps are implemented for 8 player FFA. In my opinion, DWANGO was never really intended for 1 on 1 (in exception to a few maps like DWAGNO5 MAP01). For the most part, DWANGO maps are rather big and good for hosting multiple players. I would really like to see the small maps cut including my map in the 07 slot. The map from King1.wad is a perfect size in my opinion for 8 player ffa and a duel.

Some of the maps from DW21C.wad that I liked:

MAP02: I love the layout of this. It's simple and it looks like it would would play very well for ffa. The texture selection is vanilla which is very good by my books. The classic Doom gray, SUPPORT3, Marble, stone (both gray and tan), and tekgreen2 textures seem to mix well. Just get rid of two sections with STARGR1 and replace it with LITE3. This is pretty much what a good DWANGO map is in my opinion.

MAP11: The amount of open space this map has is very ideal for 8 players. The outdoor aesthetics are also fabulous. I don't even mind that there are a few custom textures in this because it blends in very subtle with the Doom stock textures. The item placement seems to be pretty well balanced.

MAP12: I've tested this map out numerous times with Doomkid, Mr. Crispy, and many more. Every time I've played it, I've always enjoyed the gameplay. It's fast and fun.

MAP13: The gameplay is superior. This is by far one of Captain Toenail's best works. It's got high ceilings and plenty of open space allowing for many players. My only gripe is with the dark looking textures... I don't know. I kinda liked the original Doom textures that this map had with the brown big bricks, and the BROWN1/BROWNPIP.

MAP14: I don't mind the custom textures in this one. The gameplay is solid. Item placement is fine, but could probably be adjusted a little.

MAP16: This map is like the big brother to MAP11. It's big, beautiful, and the layout looks fun. It kinda reminds me of a skulltag map because it has a mix between a cave-like surrounding and a silver tech environment. The new wall textures "FNEW4" & "WALL_248" look very nice.

MAP18: I'm not really digging the light gray bricks. I'd rather see this map have more Doom stock textures than custom textures. I do like the amount of open space this map has though. The gameplay is sold from the times I play tested this.

MAP19: Ok, so this is my map. It's very big and intended for 8 players. I noticed that most of the maps from DWANGO20 where very big so I decided to make one that resembled something from MAP03 or MAP04. Outdoor aesthetics was like a secondary priority and I attempted to make my landscape as realistic as possible. I think the item placement may need some adjustment, but I have playtested it and to me it's hella fun. I put a few custom textures, but they are very subtle. 99% of the map has original Doom stock textures.

MAP20: Excellent, though I really think the theme is way out of place for a DWANGO wad. It seems more like Gothic than anything else. I don't believe I've playtested this map yet, but from the looks of it, I would say it plays well.

MAP24: Very similar to my map (MAP19). Good aesthetics, item placement and gameplay. The original Doom textures are great.

Map's I'm unsure if I totally like yet:

MAP15: This kind of looks like something Joe-Ilya would make... mater of fact, some parts of the map strongly resembles a map he tried to submit a couple of years back when we managed DMR

MAP17: My God... It's like.... DWANGUS MAXIMUS lol jk I think this one has potential. I just think it should be scaled down a bit and less symmetrical. Other than that, the wooden textures is a homage of the good ol' early Doom maps. Especially one from Greenwar where the entire map was literally woodmetal.

NOTE: I'm going to finish my review later. So expect some random edits. I plan on adding more to the Map's I'm unsure if I totally like yet section.

Overall, I would rather see more maps with a continuous theme and less custom textures. I would advise authors to make their maps resemble some of the maps from the links Doomkid provided as well as some from DWANGO20.

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Doomkid said:

NoneeLlama, this map is 100% my style. All I can really say is, it's very large - Would you be interested in possibly dividing it into two maps? I think that overall this captures the "classic deathmatch" feel really well with it's E2 vibe. Everything about it just appeals to me. As is it would make a fine DM map for 4-6 people, but with what I'm putting together I'd like it to be playable with just 2. Great stuff though, very classic.

Thanks for the kind words. I probably won't have time to work on this in the near future, so if somebody wants to modify it, then they have my permission to do so.

the_miano said:

MAP15: This kind of looks like something Joe-Ilya would make...

Wow, that's harsh.

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Thanks a ton for the write up, Miano! I totally see your points on most things here. Dwango has always been somewhat a mash of styles, though they all used vanilla textures. I'm guessing it's just because good custom textures were few and far between, not to mention that file size was a really big issue back then. There's certainly a lot of EXEC and Gothic inspiration, just from the textures alone, but there's also a lot of Dwango, Pobla and other OS stuff. I really like this merging of styles - It keeps it more interesting. ZDM_3 for example got a little too repetitive because everything followed the same suit. I think this WAD will appeal to Doomers of all walks since it has a little something for everyone.

I think, instead of removing any maps, it would be best to cluster them from smallest to largest. Though of course, map01 has to stay - It's not Dwango without an entryway remake as map01!

Inkie said:

A medium/large hell map suitable for 6-8 players. Nothing fancy to it, probably still needs a good deal of work.

Looking great so far. The only things that stand out to me right now are: Remove the crushers in the windows and the ones surrounding that RL in the wooden room, make those thin ashwalls a little thicker (just so they don't look weird) and maybe even change the texture, and that cave area is pretty large, a shrink would be nice, but that's your call. This map is great overall though, really accurate to what I'm generally looking for.

walter confalonieri said:

I was thinking to put some unfinished DM maps too for this...

I look forward to it!


EDIT: Got a new build, fixed a few more little things: http://www.grandpachuck.org/files/wads/DW21D.wad Many more changes to come!

NoneeLlama said:

Thanks for the kind words. I probably won't have time to work on this in the near future, so if somebody wants to modify it, then they have my permission to do so.

Wonderful, I'll be happy to make some slight edits. We had a massive playtest of this with 4 players where we tried every map, and this was was simply too slow. I think dividing it into two medium-size maps will do it justice. Each area looks authentic to episode 2 and I promise to keep that in tact.

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Doomkid said:

Thanks a ton for the write up, Miano! I totally see your points on most things here. Dwango has always been somewhat a mash of styles, though they all used vanilla textures. I'm guessing it's just because good custom textures were few and far between, not to mention that file size was a really big issue back then. There's certainly a lot of EXEC and Gothic inspiration, just from the textures alone, but there's also a lot of Dwango, Pobla and other OS stuff. I really like this merging of styles - It keeps it more interesting. ZDM_3 for example got a little too repetitive because everything followed the same suit. I think this WAD will appeal to Doomers of all walks since it has a little something for everyone.

I think, instead of removing any maps, it would be best to cluster them from smallest to largest. Though of course, map01 has to stay - It's not Dwango without an entryway remake as map01!


Clustering from smallest to largest is a good idea. I agree with that. I'm just not so keen on the the idea of a mash of styles. That's what I'm worried about.

But you are in control of this project so it's up to you to decide how you want it done. I personally don't 100% agree with it, but then again if most people don't mind the mashup of multiple style maps in a wad then go for it I guess. To me, this project sounds like Deathmatch Revival 2...

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