Is it okay to like Sonic ?

[Koko Ricky]

I grew up with the Genesis era games, and with the exception of Sonic 3D Blast--which is something of a platforming travesty--they're all quite dear to my inner child. That said, I have, as much as I've tried to avoid it, felt a certain embarrassment attached to this nostalgia. This is due to the inconsistent quality of the later games, the addition of obnoxious new characters, and--what is easily the biggest offender--the darker (and sexier) corners of the fan community.

I was thinking about this the other day, and I concluded that the reason we don't, by comparison, see nearly as much explicit Mario hentai, is because hardly any of the principle characters are animals. This is the bane of my repulsion with them thar furry fellows: Those particular fans, who had no trouble jumping off the deep end without nose plugs, have created this now unavoidable correlation between their deeply unsettling fetishes and a series I grew up with. It kinda makes me feel like they "stole" that from me, just a bit.

I mean, bygones will be bygones, but I would sure be annoyed if something like that happened to Doom. I mean, it did, with shit like impse, but it didn't end up tainting the experience.

[fraggle]

DoomUK said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYDsz1NFBJw

They make some reasonable points. But despite their problems, I'll always be a big fan of the old school Sonic games.

Interesting video. It seems a bit overstated I think but they do indeed raise some good points. I'm reminded of the Game Gear version where they actually added little /!\ signs to warn you to slow down because of the smaller screen.

They're still good games. But it does have me questioning how much of that is down to the marketing. I remember how Sonic was everywhere in the early '90s. They pushed it really hard as a brand, and 10-year-old me certainly fell for all of it. Aside from my Game Gear I had the Sonic plush toys, the Sonic choose-your-own-adventure book, the Sonic comic books and of course I watched the Sonic cartoon series. There's probably a bunch of other stuff I've forgotten now. Point is, it's hard to tell how much of my fond memories of Sonic may indeed be down to marketing.

GoatLord said:

Those particular fans, who had no trouble jumping off the deep end without nose plugs, have created this now unavoidable correlation between their deeply unsettling fetishes and a series I grew up with. It kinda makes me feel like they "stole" that from me, just a bit.

I understand where you're coming from and kind of feel the same way. Sonic for me was a brief obsession when I was about 10 years old, so it's something I intrinsically associate with childhood. So any attempt to sexualize that seems deeply creepy to me.

Maes said:

Dr. Robotnik's name sounds like an evil Soviet or East German scientist's.

Don't forget the obvious Stalin resemblance.

Part of me almost wonders if there was a deliberate propaganda campaign along these lines in the '80s. The other memorable example is Miles Mayhem, the Stalin lookalike leader of the villains in M.A.S.K. who dresses in a military uniform.

[Jaxxoon R]

Sodaholic said:

That doesn't exist. They never even made a third.

Sonic 06 and pre-rename Sonic Unleashed drew near...

[Maes]

fraggle said:

Don't forget the obvious Stalin resemblance.

But Stalin wasn't bald :-(

fraggle said:

Part of me almost wonders if there was a deliberate propaganda campaign along these lines in the '80s.

Quite probably (don't forget Stryder and Chelnov, where in both cases the enemy forces had an unmistakable communist symbolism). By the time of Street Figher 2 there still was a remnant of that agenda, though by then it was very rounded around the edges, Perestroika, Gorbachev and all that...

Perhaps that's why they renamed Dr. Robotnik to Eggman, as the evil Soviet doctor scientist stereotype was lost on the newer generations of gamers (and also because now Sonic games are sold even in Slavic countries, so the name might sound silly and/or offensive).

[Ralphis]

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is peak 2d platformer

[SyntherAugustus]

*Dives into thread*

The original megadrive trilogy (including Knuckles) is all I care about. Adventure was cool when I was a teenager since it was hip and modern, but the fact they kept going with it in subsequent games drove me nanners. Sonic 4 and Generations to some degree get rid of that, thankfully. The video is very on point about how speed is advertised, yet somehow you're slowing down quite often. I remember that trilogy better though with the inspiring music and environments. Yeah it has its downs, but I remember stuff like this standing out when I was a teenager using a dos based genesis emulator at the time.

[Blastfrog]

Oshima knew what he was doing with the character, I don't think it's coincidence that it got all "edgy" and unlikable after he left. Sonic CD and the OVA are the only two products to really nail how the world and character should be.

Even Sonic Adventure 1 was closer to the Mega Drive games in tone compared to later titles.

Maes said:

Perhaps that's why they renamed Dr. Robotnik to Eggman, as the evil Soviet doctor scientist stereotype was lost on the newer generations of gamers (and also because now Sonic games are sold even in Slavic countries, so the name might sound silly and/or offensive).

His appearance was actually based on Roosevelt, and Eggman was always his name. "Robotnik" was invented by the localization team who renamed most of what the Japanese dev team called things.

[BaronOfStuff]

Sonic Jam 6 is the best Sonic game ever.

[Jaxxoon R]

I think something to be learned from Sonic is that in the wrong hands even the greatest, most beloved IP can be tainted forever.

What once was a stylish, unstoppable juggernaut is now a meme factory and outlet for weird fetishes. Gnarled by stubborn, apathetic businessmen. What was once a surreal polygonal art deco acid trip inspired by classical western cartoon goliaths like Felix the Cat and Mickey Mouse, and massively popular anime like Dragon Ball Z is now an Awesome Possum of its former self. A mere bootleg of the classics. Sonic Team has become a passionless assembly line for the same mediocre game.

The modern design of Sonic characters, being cartoon animals with grotesque realistic human mouths, were a formulaic creation to mirror the satyr-esq design of the Christian perversion of Pagan 'gods,' the redesign itself a perversion of the classical designs of characters like Felix and Mickey. They take advantage of this deeply embedded familiarity for the assured success of their succeeding steps in their plans. Sonic was specifically lengthened and given this mouth so as to allow for ample display of this ungodly fusion, the rubbery flexibility to the design in the Adventure era to give a sense of never quite ending and never quite beginning, omnipotence. The best evidence for this is this video, wherein the esteemed Let's Player ChipCheezum is temporarily possessed by the entity that presents itself as "Sonic" in an attempt to further inject the concept into the subconscious of those in the human world. Also seen is the numerous examples of fake Hebrew font throughout Station Square.

The realistic environments during this era was to coerce those into better accepting that such a thing is normal and acceptable in a "real world." Another factor is the many references to satanic themes and demons within the game's lore and design. Iblis is the Islamic name for the Devil, and a creature that whispers into the hearts of both humans and spirits alike to lead them to do evil acts. Mephiles the Dark is Mephistopheles, a demon that serves and then collects the souls of the corrupt. Egg Cerberus is a one-headed mechanical copy of the usually three-headed Cerberus, suggesting that the gates of the underworld have been slung open and left unguarded by the efforts of the creature calling itself "Sonic." A word meaning sound, and speed approaching that of it. Sound without definition, without language, throughout all tongues and races and the unstoppable unnatural speed at which its influence spreads. Sonic.

The true purpose for "Sonic's" human mouth is to allow for his disgusting kissing, suggested relationship and presumable eventual copulation of the Princess Elise. Naka learned of this and fled. The reason for this is to implant children with furry desires, leading to the degradation of humans back into an animalistic state, allowing to their eventual enslavement and devouring by the hands of the Reptilians.

[40oz]

^

[Tritnew]

@Jaxxoon6 You make Me wanna destroy my head like Rick attempted to In Rick and Morty due to the amount of mindfuck.

[Clonehunter]

What do you mean gggmork didn't write that

[Fonze]

Hahaha omg wtf Jax. Hang on, I need a gigantic bong or some shrooms for this conversation.

[NoirSuede]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AK3n-srj5E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPS4PsVS5yc

[Blastfrog]

Tritnew said:

@Jaxxoon6

Who the hell is that?

[Remiel]

I'd like it more if there wasn't the fascination with the eight year old fox and the artwork, fanfiction, and game mods centred around making him "mature" at the author's pleasure

[MFG38]

It's absolutely okay to like anything. Unless it comes to the point of downright being a fetish.

[chungy]

What's wrong with it being a fetish? They're just like opinions: you don't need to share them with other people. So long as nobody is being harmed, why give a fuck?

[Tritnew]

Sodaholic said:

Who the hell is that?

Jaxxoon6 Is pretty much the Guy who posted the reply with a huge Theory. :\ This Is mainly the reason why I quote posts.

[snapshot]

Sodaholic said:

That doesn't exist. They never even made a third.

Technically Sonic '06 is the third, but rushed .

[chungy]

Sonic '06 was a reboot.

[SavageCorona]

gaspe said:

Actually I demand for more of these

As do I but only if they figure out how to make HD sprites. muh trilinear filterings dont help bruh

[Mr. Freeze]

chungy said:

What's wrong with it being a fetish? They're just like opinions: you don't need to share them with other people. So long as nobody is being harmed, why give a fuck?

Woah woah woah don't question MFG38's thought-policing, you might trigger him!

[SavageCorona]

Kink shaming triggers me though so it seems we're at an impasse.

[Doomkid]

Uh.. Dunno wtf is happening here on page 4, but to the OP, the Sonic series was great in the Genesis era. I just find it funny how, through the endless smear campaigns and bad mouthing, Nintendo / Mario not only won the war, but went so far as to literally consume Sega.

The Genesis was awesome but if that's the only console SEGA ever made... I wouldn't have known the difference. (Sorry Dreamcast fans, I see the appeal, but I had a gamecube and was super content with that back at that time!)

[Blastfrog]

Tritnew said:

Jaxxoon6 Is pretty much the Guy who posted the reply with a huge Theory. :\ This Is mainly the reason why I quote posts.

It was a rhetorical question. I was pointing out that his username is Jaxxoon R, not Jaxxoon6. Also, what's with the random capitalization?

[Koko Ricky]

chungy said:

What's wrong with it being a fetish? They're just like opinions: you don't need to share them with other people. So long as nobody is being harmed, why give a fuck?

It's uncomfortable as fuck, to say the least, to see a completely non-sexual thing like a kid's video game character being placed in a borderline or explicitly sexual context. It's not about being the morality police, or my childhood being stained, so much as it is that with most other franchises that I enjoy, I can avoid the weird stuff quite easily. With Sonic, it's out there in the open. Which is kinda odd, because not many franchises are like that.

[BaronOfStuff]

Doomkid said:

(Sorry Dreamcast fans, I see the appeal, but I had a gamecube and was super content with that back at that time!)

Sega's Dreamcast is a bit of a sad story, really, at least as far as videogame consoles go. It was conceived, developed and released with the absolute worst possible timing in some sort of panicked reaction to the much-hyped (and expensive) Saturn generally getting the utter shit slapped out of it by sales of the (cheaper yet surprisingly capable) PlayStation and N64.

The DC did enjoy a bit of time at the top for raw power and ability (and by god did Sega love to show us how good things looked compared to the competition), but it was never really the console to have (at least over here in the UK) because:
1) There simply weren't that many games for it (especially not exclusives) compared to the already-comfortable PSX/N64 libraries to make it worth shelling out for.
2) Everyone knew what Sony and Nintendo were up to and planning for their next generation of console, and we were all quite content to save and wait for those, knowing that they (along with Microsoft's XBox) would objectively be far superior machines.

And then Sega pulled out of console development altogether.

[geo]

I'm waiting one day for:

GoatLord said:

*hits blunt*

That is all.

[Tritnew]

Doomkid said:

Uh.. Dunno wtf is happening here on page 4, but to the OP, the Sonic series was great in the Genesis era. I just find it funny how, through the endless smear campaigns and bad mouthing, Nintendo / Mario not only won the war, but went so far as to literally consume Sega.

The Genesis was awesome but if that's the only console SEGA ever made... I wouldn't have known the difference. (Sorry Dreamcast fans, I see the appeal, but I had a gamecube and was super content with that back at that time!)

Finally, someone who sort of grew with a Gamecube. I can agree that the Genesis era was the best, I did enjoy some modern games though like Colors, Sonic 4, Generations. It all went downhill with Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric, even If It's a spin-off game, It was the worse to come out of Sega. Oh, and I have to say that It's one of those games that are like cheaply made TV to game adaptions (though I like the TV Show, but I hate how It comes on at fucking 7 AM In the damn morning every Saturday). I never grew up with Sega consoles and I was more of a Nintendo guy, though I did get to try out Sonic Mega Collection and emulators for Sonic games.