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FanTazTiCxD

What is a flawless wad to you?

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Hello! I've been thinking about something. Everytime I go to a thread where someone has posted their level in doom, including mine, it seems that everyone always has a flaw or two to point out. Maybe there were too many monsters in that and that room, too few in that. Too little ammunition, too much... secrets too easy to find, too hard to find. Design too simple, or odd textures and bad allignment. Too much maze, or too linear. Too easy to beat or too difficult to beat etc.

My questions is, what is a flawless wad to you? And I'm not talking about the perfect wad that has all the details and stuff. Just a wad that you can't criticize for containing flaws. I hope you get what I mean :-)

The kind of wads, where only quantity is a thing that could be improved, but not quality... So I'm not asking about the levels that will take you several weeks to create, but the kind of levels that were created in the most "correct" way, when you consider the time that was spent making it. I hope I'm explaining myself in an understandable way here. I'm just curious to hear what you think :)

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I like to play my maps tactically. I want to feel the drive to explore and be rewarded for it. While I do love playing a fast paced Doom it needs to be within predictable situations, such as areas with trash mobs in linear rooms. I enjoy the vanilla maps the most, or at least I play them the most. I find whether you play them with or without gameplay mods they are the most well balanced. Also due to their familiarity I can really take it fast if I so choose to.

I always favor Brutal Doom and the fan submod Project Brutality. However that being my preference ruins the intended balance of many maps people make. But that doesn't really answer your question.

Considering the above factors, I don't have a flawless Wad to name. Or I haven't found it yet.

But I do like:
- Themed Maps
- High in Detail
- Unique Content
- Modern Gameplay
- Moderate Difficult
- No wall humping for secrets
- More frequent smaller skirmishes, minimal slaughter maps

What I'm doing to achieve my view of a near perfect Wad to suit my needs (with Brutal Doom etc) is making my own Map Pack. I'm keen to release it someday to see if others share my tastes.

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FuzzballFox said:

I think it's unfair to call something completely flawless- because that's impossible.

i think the point is that it's flawless in your eyes. it's perfect from your point of view. what you like about a mod someone might find to be okay or even bad, and i think that's the kind of discussion OP wants to have here.

but, hmm, personally i'd probably take Super Sonic Doom or Equinox as my picks. SSD because, while it is not the most pretty wad, and its scripting hacks hasn't aged that gracefully, i just love the sense of adventure in the mod. it's one of the first ZDoom wads i played that was shockfull of things i hadn't seen in Doom before, and it was a really wow-y effect to say the least.

Equinox because it's probably one of the most perfect examples of telling a story with no words: there is no backstory regarding why Equinox have been conducting these apparently genetic experiments that have gone amok, or what the hell the last level is, but it doesn't need to. the atmosphere is perfect, and come of the new custom music helps fit the tone perfectly. this is how story-telling in Doom should be approached a little more often.

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Where only quantity could be improved, but not quality...
created in the most "correct" way

No, there is no such thing. I wish Memfis was still around, he would tell you, he was always able to explain this convincingly.

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scifista42 said:

No, there is no such thing.


Thanks for pointing that out! I also think this is true. If not lower unpegging the doortraks next to a door is your own way of doing it, then it isn't incorrect :P I asked about "correct" anyways, since many people here seems to have an idea of what is correct and what is not in doom editing

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A wad version of jesus. jk.

Everything is subjective so I don't find any wads flawless. Not even if it meets my standards.

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Nothing is perfect.

2 things I Like: Realism, Classic Gameplay, Tons of Secrets

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MM2 is flawless to me... but in terms of aesthetics, I never saw anything more consistent (and varied at the same time) than Scythe 2.

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IMO, my favorite levels are the ones that are closer to Doom I or Plutonia feeling. I would describe as not-so-big non-linear levels with clever monster positioning and a good pacing management (building tension and releasing it)

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I think D2TWiD is the closest thing I've played to flawless in the sense of meeting the project aims. Even then there are some off tune moments so I don't think it's possible to sustain over a series of maps. Limiting to 1 map may be a more achievable endeavour. MAP10 from D2TWiD would be my pick under those conditions.

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By flawless I just mean the kind of levels where you'd be like: "Cool map! It was fun to play, keep creating!" where nothing is really worth pointing out as a flaw, such as too little/much health, too many/little monsters etc.

It doesn't have to be the most awesome level ever :P

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Holy fuck guys just say something you like and move on to the next thread. We get it, "nothing is perfect, I have to correct OP even though everyone in the thread did already dduuuuhh."

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Hoodie said:

Holy fuck guys just say something you like and move on to the next thread. We get it, "nothing is perfect, I have to correct OP even though everyone in the thread did already dduuuuhh."

Are you being double-contrarian?

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If a mapset is fun while played in a hardcore software port, a 3d accelerated port with mouselook, with gameplay mods and without ... then it's pretty flawless.

I like good map progression without doors opening out of sight, good aesthetics with a consistent theme. I hate abstractions, like doors and switches that don't look like such.

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I'm far too critical to think that anything is truly flawless. That's a pretty impractical way to define something, honestly.

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my favorite maps usually can be played in different styles with different outcomes, without relying on certain factors. no real flawless mapset exists but my favorite qualities for maps have to be speedrun-friendly and/or max-friendly.

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Thanks for your opinions! Some think that there are no real flawless levels, others think there might be... To me, I would say that the levels from the shareware episode are flawless. I'm not saying that a little extra secret here and there wouldn't improve them, or a little extra monster here and there, but those are things that aren't really worth pointing out for me, and therefore I consider them flawless :-)

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It's a unicorn. It's a myth, if you've come across it you're hallucinating.

Though to answer this in a more joking manner, NUTS.wad. Though to clarify. NUTS.wad is flawless. Yes, it's a map that's one big square room with impossible odds. It's really hard not to get the format of the map wrong. You could say it's flaws are the lack of walls, multiple sectors, and large count of monsters but it's really a well done slaughter map that tends to make your computer run at really low frame rates once you attract the attention of everything.

It's beatable too. It's a flawless example of a slaughtermap.

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Nothing is flawless, nothing, however there are some excellent wads, just remember that no wad is perfect.
No matter how hard you work on it, there will always have issues that can't be fixed.

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In terms of quality, nothing can reach the level of pure perfection, nothing in this world.
But the wads I've had the most memories with are Invasion UAC, and Drown in Blood (dietest.wad).

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J.B.R said:

Nothing is flawless, nothing, however there are some excellent wads, just remember that no wad is perfect.
No matter how hard you work on it, there will always have issues that can't be fixed.


I'm trying to distinguish between 'flawless' and 'perfect'. While I believe that no wad is perfect, I still believe that a wad can be flawless, without mistakes that needs to be fixed. Think about the shareware episode. There aren't really anything worth pointing out as a mistake, or something that was done wrong. Not if you ask me. That's how I think of the idea of a wad being flawless

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