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Mcreep16

(Very detailed) Thoughts on Doom 4 presentation/gameplay

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Before I commence, I would like to get some things out of the way.

____________________________________INFO/NOTES___________________________________

Disclaimers:

- I fully acknowledge that all that I write is my opinion and that none of it is to be taken as fact.

- Constructive criticism and debates are most welcome, but blatant spam and attacks will be deleted/blocked.

- I shall be referring to and time-stamping a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljpBwguIqos)

- This will be very long. For tl;dr, look at "CONCLUSIONS"

Experience:

Noobish/Minimal

- 10 hours on vanilla doom 2 (dosbox), Map 23, "Hey not too rough" difficulty.

- 3 hours on Brutal Doom 2 (zandorum), Map 13, "Harsh"


_____________________________________THOUGHTS____________________________________

0:00 - Right off the bat, I think that the mask design and interface is too remiscent of the Mjolnir headpeice from the Halo Series. I know that the Mega Armour did inspire the Mjolnir armour, but it looks like the designers deliberately made it similar. IMO, the armour should have stayed the same as it was in the first 2 games. It seemed to fit the theme and tone more. The idea of adding an interface itself was a nice thought and would be welcome.

0:20 - The colour palette is very unnecesarilly grey/brown/piss. While it does fit the theme of the game and it does give an industrial flare, I would have liked it more if they went with the old route of having colours that were dreary and washed, but interesting enough to: 1. Distinguish objects from each other and 2. Keep environments interesting.


0:29 - I see a lot of people complaining about the double-jump feature. I really don't see much of a problem. In fact, I think that it could allow for some clever and multi-layered level design tropes, and maybe even a cure to long stretches of uninteresting backtracking.

0:42 - I also saw many people talking about how the level design was "linear" and "Call of Duty", but I think that the only reason why the guide is going in a specific direction (straight to the objective) is because the devs wanted you to explore these areas for yourself. You can see that there are more paths than the one the player is taking because he/she turns away from the path (that you can clearly see continues onward).

0:45 - First sign of enemies. Little nitpick, but I think that updating and 'creepifying' the old sounds would be more effective.

0:52 - First visuals of enemies. I found that the designs of this enemy type to be very generic and non-demonic. If you put these enemy models in a game about aliens or mutant humans, no one would tell the difference. Once again, unnecessarily brownish-grey. You will see my verdicts on the other enemy designs later.

0:54 - I honestly think that the shotgun really isn't powerful enough. While the enemy reactions and animations represent a load of kick behind that gun (which is more than what you can say for most modern shooters), I honestly thing it should be buffed by at least 50%. IMO, you're doing it wrong if a shotgun doesn't take out an imp from close range in one blast.

The enemy behaviour also leaves something to be desired. The idea behind the enemies in all 3 doom games is that you could take them down really easily, but you would pay the price if you didn't. In this game, however, it really seems as if none of this actually takes place. The guns are weaker and the enemies aren't as feirce. Hopefully the AI makes up for it.

0:56 - Also, the takedowns are brutal and fitting for a game like this, but it would be much nicer if they took the time to incorporate the takedowns into the dynamic gore system that they use for other weapons. Once again; this approach is fitting, it just takes control away from the player.

1:02 - Like the double-jump, I think the light parkour system has the potential to do wonders for the sense of mobility and approaches to completing levels. People are also saying this will ruin doom as well (for some reason).

Also, increasing the power of the weapons and the deadliness of the weapons (like I suggested would require the enemy count to be increased as well.

1:05 - Doomguy's speed, while a step in the right direction compared to other shooters, is still a bit too slow. I just think that a faster speed will allow for more movement options when in battle.

1:07 - This, like the imp, looks far too generic to be recognizable as a Doom enemy. Good appearance, just not special enough.

1:10 - Possible infighting? If so, It's a good comeback. If not, I think it would be a great addition to the other combat mechanics.

1:14 - Big nitpick, but I think the projectiles should be a fraction faster.

Also, another example of how underpowered the shotgun is.

1:37 - Nice cameo with a future enemy type.

1:48 - Great use of physics engine with explosions.

1:55 - I think that health, unlike ammo, should only be found on the ground or in secrets. Having them drop from enemies seems too generous.

2:00 - Nice lighting.

2:05 - Great use of terror in this single place. It really gives a good 'invasion from hell' vibe. Plus I'm just a sucker for game catastrophe aftermath scenes.

2:10 - Fantastic looking weapon models. Really liking the 'coach gun' look of the SSG.

2:18 - Thank you! That should have been the base shotgun damage, with the SSG having twice that.

Also, lots of gore, but next to no blood in ratio?

3:07 - I hope they only use this weapon selection wheel for consoles. I like the idea of having the quick-switch system from the other 3 games, because then there's a sense of urgency. Nice slow-mo effects, though.

3:33 - I love me some alt+fires.

4:02 - I should also mention the fantastic animations in this game. Specifically the weapon animations.

4:11 - I think that this suffers from an extreme of what the shotgun suffers from. Both the damage and enemy hurt animations are unsatisfactory. It my experience, the only 'game' to give the plasma gun the enemy reactions it deserves is Brutal Doom. In that 'game', you would fire at someone until they were reduced to nothing but ash. Here, they just get amsorbed like it's a game of laser tag. Although the reality-bending warp effects are pretty neat.

5:02 - This is my favourite part of the campaign demonstration. If there is anything that Bethesda can do right, it's storytelling through visuals. It is also one of the best introductions to an enemy type that I have ever seen. The fact that the scene is projected within the location where it took place makes it all the more terrifying. It adds a new side to the story of the invasion. You are this badass space marine with all your guns and armour, but what about the others? This hologram projection shows the capability of these beasts in ways never seen before. People knock on Doom 3 for it's horror elements and lack of focus on action, but I beleive that horror in small doses is greatly welcome in games like this. As an added bonus, it also subliminally gives you directions on where to go next.

A bit of Bethesda-style storytelling in Wolfenstein: The New Order greatly improved the lore, so why can't it in Doom?

5:36 - A bit of dark humor. Not asked for but not unwelcome.

6:23 - Remember what I said about the pre-animated takedowns? This weapon is purely pre-animated takedowns.

7:42 - Wow. I really did not see that coming. That was pretty well scripted. But who am I playing as if that guy's dead?

8:55 - tbh, I really find this deathmatch mode to be too much like Halo. I can't really explain why, but I hope you can see why.

9:18 - It's a really good, if not disturbing, touch to have the players sacrifice their own humanity to become more powerful. It adds another layer of mechanics and playstyles to the mix.

10:31 - I think that those (like me) who will be disappointed with the campaign will be happy with the horde mode. It makes up for the lack of enemy placement and frequency and can make situations pretty hectic. I could just buy killing floor, but I really would like a horde more game with doom gunplay, setting and enemy types.

11:04 - Yes. This is my favourite part of the entire presentation. This is the most genius idea in this entire presentation. Because SnapMap lets you create extremely complex levels, all of the complaints about the pacing and enemy amounts in each level is going to be eliminated by the fact that you can create levels that you want to. And this isn't just an ordinary level creator either. This has multi-layered reactions like the one demonstrated. You can make the doom level that 'you' want. If Id 'Watch_Dogs's" this, I will be so pissed.

Post-Demonstration comments:

- I, like many, don't like the use of Dubstep in the soundtrack. I beleive that using metal like the other 3 games is much more fitting. The composer is talented, it's just not the right type of music. It's like playing speed metal a jazz convention.

- I like the design of the crosshairs. Un-intrusive, yet descriptive.

- It seems as if Bethesda has taken all the elements that people liked from Wolfenstein: The New Order and put them in a doom game. The difference is that Wolfenstein has always been a series of WW2 shooters, so they could afford to be conventional. Doom, however, is a different breed of dog. Bethesda should have had a closer look at Doom 1 and 2 because there are a lot of things there that are really clever and effective that are simply missing here.

______________________________________CONCLUSION_________________________________

Pros:

- Graphics
- Textures
- Lighting
- Animations/physics
- Use of visual storytelling
- Added mobility through double jump and light parkour
- Kept non-linear level design
- alt+fires
- Horde Mode
- Snapmap
- Dynamic gore system

Cons:

- Colour Palette
- Eenemy designs/sounds
- Underpowered weapons
- Abundance of health
- Pre-animated takedowns
- Not enough enemies on screen
- Enemies not feirce enough
- Blood/Gore ratio
- Soundtrack

Verdict: If it keeps going this way, it will be a good game, just not a good Doom game.


Thank you very much for reading.

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Update:

- The designs of the Hell Knight and Revenant are ok, as they are based on pre-existing designs that I like.

- If they have 1 year left of development time, I doubt they are going to implement these changes if they do listen. We got lucky with Wolfenstein: The New Order.

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DOOM 4 Seemed ... way to different from any other DOOM Game, mainly because of some gameplay changes and the Halo feel, but i guess that's good to keep it on Track and try not to lose against new age games .

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Mcreep16 said:

Experience:

Noobish/Minimal

- 10 hours on vanilla doom 2 (dosbox), Map 23, "Hey not too rough" difficulty.

- 3 hours on Brutal Doom 2 (zandorum), Map 13, "Harsh"

-------

Verdict: If it keeps going this way, it will be a good game, just not a good Doom game.


Thank you very much for reading.


I just don't think we've seen enough to judge all that thoroughly quite yet. I do agree with you that people are jumping the gun to say it has CoD style straight line linear levels. It looks like that is not the case, and they did scrap the earlier build of the game where it was looking in that direction.

As for underpowered weapons, considering how many hits it takes to kill many enemies in classic Doom, this seems about the same as usual.

Also a side note, you said you've played some Doom 2. Have you not played the first Doom? It might be tough to say what is and isn't Doom without having played that. It's not quite the same thing as Doom 2. Definitely check it out, it's even better I'd say. Though I don't see why you'd play it on dosbox. You can get the original pixelly unfiltered textures and whatnot on lots of nice new engines too, lots of options.

Also for the record, Doom 3 is by far the most successful id game to date, having sold many millions of copies. This is a fact. While they're definitely bringing in more of the oldschool style and focusing less on the "cinematic" storytelling FPS, Doom 3 is still part of the DNA too. You did give that game a mention to be fair.

I personally don't see the comparison to Wolfenstein New Order, that game is a very "cinematic" storytelling style game, stopping to make you watch people talk a lot, has some dull simple stealth gameplay, etc. Not too much in common with this new Doom.

Personally, I'm very much looking forward to the new Doom, has lots of potential, and I like the little glimpses we've seen so far.

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Not much about Doom 4 actually bothered me. Sure I'm one of many who feel the new Cyberdemon is out of place, also I'm not impressed with the gibs (but some death animations are great), a bit disappointed about some of the underwhelming weapons, a little concerned about the trash mobs being more suited to Quake than Doom and finally hoping Snapmap is not too limiting on map creation.

However there are lots of mixed opinions on take downs. Sure if they feel forced (like the only way to get much needed health) then it may be a problem, otherwise take-downs are fun and optional. I love the direction Doom 4 is going personally.

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I agree with almost everything you said. IMO the most motivating pro is the level design, i think they actually nailed that one, something says me its going to be very non-linear. And as for the human facilities we can see plenty of colors and great lighting. And for hell, all the details and decorations (stacked skulls on sticks, red energy holding chunks of rock, pillars made of bones and flesh, big chains and so on) looks legitimately satanic, but the environment doesnt go along very well, grey rocks and a yellow sky, is hell in venus? The PSX sky is awesome, the completely black sky gives the right sense that hell is infinitely far from our dimension.

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

By the way, anyone got a shot of DOOM 4's lost soul ?, i'm guessing it's gonna suck just like DOOM 3's .

Or Doom 1 and 2's. :P (What an annoying dummy the lost soul is)

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PsychoGoatee said:

Or Doom 1 and 2's. :P (What an annoying dummy the lost soul is)

I'm talking about the look, i don't want D3 Women heads anymore :3 . I Believe it's not in any of the vids shown previously .

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