20 Years of PlayStation Doom.

[Quasar]

MetroidJunkie said:

It's not like you can say the same about the Playstation, though, unless they just honestly didn't want to put in the effort or the system somehow wasn't powerful enough to base it off the PC version or something.

I'm not sure if id Software gave them the option of trying to use the PC maps for the first three episodes. They may have just handed them the Jag level set.

Or, maybe they budgeted all their map design time and money to conversion of Ultimate Doom and Doom II's maps and creation of the new custom maps.

Either way, the Williams team was anything but lazy. Also, PSX has the Cyberdemon and Spiderdemon, so we're kind of straying off the topic of whether or not those bosses could fit in the Jag version somehow.

[Megamur]

BaronOfStuff said:

Not entirely true, the slower projectiles have a much tighter turning circle which can be a real bitch if you lose track, and in that sense they will fuck you over if you try to treat them like you would in Doom2.exe.

I also seem to recall that revenant missiles always track you in PSX Doom, whereas PC Doom randomly made them fire non-tracking missiles, too.

I was strictly a Nintendo gamer in my youth, so the PSX Doom didn't have quite as much of an effect on me, as by the time I'd tried it, I'd already played Doom 64, which is similar but arguably creepier. I did have a lot of fun playing Final Doom PSX, though. Having the Master Levels stitched together as a campaign was really great.

[Da Werecat]

Quasar said:

Either way, the Williams team was anything but lazy.

I'll never forgive them for the E1M3 ambush. Was it so hard to kill the lights?

[Jaxxoon R]

If I recall correctly, that's a bug. The line trigger is there but the sector its set to isn't tagged.

[Xegethra]

It was also a game I played a lot of when growing up. I remember playing with such cold and uncomfortable hands as I do games today sometimes, made it hard to play but I loved it. One of my fondest experiences.

[Buckshot]

I kind of played the console versions ass backwards. Started off the first few years playing DOOM on PC, then somehow convinced my dad to get me a N64 the Christmas they launched (1996 I think it was), and I remember picking up DOOM 64 some months after that.

It had a eerie, spooky vibe to it that even Quake didn't have. Thought it was a different spin against the PC version... very haunting, but had a blast playing it.

It wasn't until some months after that my friends talked me into getting a PSX to play Resident Evil 2... and naturally i had to get DOOM PSX.

I said this in a previous post, and I know it was out long before DOOM 64, but I was always had split feelings on it. On one hand it had the look and feel of pc DOOM, however the audio, fx and ambience of DOOM 64. It felt like Williams was trying to fit a round peg in a square hole with the psx release... and it didn't feel like a seamless transition the way DOOM 64 did. It felt like it was trying to be something it wasnt by using the base pc graphics.

The audio was retrofitted into the game with DOOM PSX... while I think with Doom 64 they got their horror-themed vision of DOOM perfect in DOOM 64. Clearly in the N64 version, unlike the psx, the game was designed around the audio and fx.

just my take on it.

[VGamingJunkie]

Quasar said:

we're kind of straying off the topic of whether or not those bosses could fit in the Jag version somehow.

Jeez, no wonder, I didn't know Atari Jaguar cartridges were limited to a measly 6 MB of space. For some reason, I thought it was more than that.

[BaronOfStuff]

Only six?

Christ, no wonder the console bombed. All that (supposed) power and games were limited to having precisely dick-all in the way of varied content.

[Blastfrog]

BaronOfStuff said:

All that (supposed) power

Not to mention the horrifically asymmetrical and backwards architecture that made accessing that power difficult, and limited it to being used in certain ways.

[VGamingJunkie]

It certainly explains a lot, guess the SNES version wasn't the only one that forced the team to jump through hoops to get it to work. Seems like most of the console versions around that time were plagued with problems, from not having enough time to the system in question just being a hassle to work with.

[VGA]

MetroidJunkie said:

That's true, the SNES version certainly had to make some compromises to get it all to fit, such as making the Spider Mastermind's death and pain sound (seemingly) the same as its sight sound and making the BFG 9000's blast the Baron of Hell's green fireball.

It's not like you can say the same about the Playstation, though, unless they just honestly didn't want to put in the effort or the system somehow wasn't powerful enough to base it off the PC version or something.

The PSX had 2mb system RAM, so it makes sense to base their work on the Jag port.

[Dave The Daring]

BaronOfStuff said:

Only six?

Christ, no wonder the console bombed.

I bought one when it came out. I was a bit of an Atari fanboy at the time, god knows why. But it got me into Doom, so no harm done.

[Megamur]

At least you didn't play the 3DO version first.

[Avoozl]

I still can't see why people consider PSX Doom to be the best console Doom game when we have Doom 64. PSX Doom is only second best imho.

[BaronOfStuff]

Because it has more content, better music samples, and varied yet consistent visuals/art direction.

And if we're going to stick to console reasons, the N64 controller is an awful piece of shit for FPS games which requires the user to have three fucking hands to operate optimally.

[Dave The Daring]

Megamur said:

At least you didn't play the 3DO version first.

Seriously, who could afford a 3DO at the time? The Jaguar was a fraction of the price and a better piece of hardware.

3DO? 3DNO.

[Da Werecat]

BaronOfStuff said:

varied yet consistent visuals/art direction

Consistent? With different graphics processed differently and maps from different sources? I dunno.

Varied - maybe. At least in the second half.

[Avoozl]

I wouldn't really say PSX Doom's artwork was better, the textures were sharpened to a point where they looked really ropey.

The coloured lighting just drowned out areas including the sprites in a single colour while Doom 64 had more advanced lighting with uses such as gradients and an option to project a different colour on the sprites so they aren't drowned out by the same colour in an area, not to mention also the fact that PSX Doom's had high amounts of pixelation and unbearablely short visual range.

Also both Doom 64 and PSX Doom had their own unique music tracks, I wouldn't say one OST was better than the other they both were good.

Sure PSX Doom retained two more of the original monster cast but the Revenant was seriously gimped to near useless and the Spider Mastermind isn't at all hard to kill, Doom 64 at least had a new better boss.

[vinnie245]

PSX Doom was what originally got me into Doom back in Christmas 1996, was scared at first since i was only 6 but i got over it quickly and ended up getting PSX Final Doom just 4 months later :P

I just love the sound and music to death, the shotgun for example actually sounds like a shotgun and ive always preferred Aubrey Hodges tracks over the original midis.
It's something Doom 3 sorely needed after Trent Reznor left the project, Hodges could of made some amazing music and actually make the weapons sound powerful and not like fucking pea shooters.

I love both the PSX and N64 soundtracks but i prefer to listen to the PSX soundtrack since there seems to actually be more music in the tracks unlike some of the N64 tracks which go on WAY too long with nothing happening in them.

[Da Werecat]

vinnie245 said:

...unlike some of the N64 tracks which go on WAY too long with nothing happening in them.

Many Final Doom tracks left the same impression on me.

The main problem with D64 soundtrack is bad sample quality. Hodges changed the style a little bit to use this technical limitation to his advantage, but the tracks are nevertheless harder to listen outside of the game.

[Dave The Daring]

If I had to pick between the PSX and N64 soundtracks, I'd pick the PSX. I think the PSX tracks have a little more variety than the N64 tracks.

[VGamingJunkie]

If you already owned the PC games, then Doom 64 would be the obviously more sensible choice since it has more new content rather than just sprinkling Doom II monsters into existing Ultimate Doom levels. If you didn't, though, the Ps1 was a decent option to get into it, especially since the Saturn version was so much worse. John Carmack really should have rethought his position on not allowing hardware rendering to be used, I think warping textures would have been a far preferable alternative to the crippling lag it ended up getting.

[Quasar]

PSX Doom is the best console PORT of Doom because it is a PORT of the original game. Doom 64 is a NEW GAME (and a superb one at that), but it is not a PORT of the original, and therefore it does not count in that sense. Capiche? This question gets asked so much that I get weary of it. I mean, how is that not entirely obvious w/o having to explain it every time >_>

[VGamingJunkie]

Even then, you can only really say it was the best console port of Doom at the time. Better ones have come out since then.

[vinnie245]

I still think it's the best port personally, with the others you might as well just play the PC version at the end of the day.
With PSX Doom it was authentic enough to still be Doom yet different enough for people to try it out even if they've already played the PC original.
So while future ports like the 360 version are more authentic to the PC original it is essentialy just the original version so there isn't really anything new for people to experience.

[Gez]

Quasar said:

PSX Doom is the best console PORT of Doom because it is a PORT of the original game. Doom 64 is a NEW GAME (and a superb one at that), but it is not a PORT of the original, and therefore it does not count in that sense. Capiche? This question gets asked so much that I get weary of it. I mean, how is that not entirely obvious w/o having to explain it every time >_>

Doom 64 is the best console Doom, in the same way Heretic is the best PC Doom. ;)

[BaronOfStuff]

Avoozl said:

Also both Doom 64 and PSX Doom had their own unique music tracks, I wouldn't say one OST was better than the other they both were good.

They did have some unique tracks, but they also shared several tracks too, most notably the "crying baby" track (Lamentation), in which case the PSX version is objectively superior:

[Da Werecat]

BaronOfStuff said:

objectively

Please.

[Quasar]

vinnie245 said:

I still think it's the best port personally, with the others you might as well just play the PC version at the end of the day.
With PSX Doom it was authentic enough to still be Doom yet different enough for people to try it out even if they've already played the PC original.
So while future ports like the 360 version are more authentic to the PC original it is essentialy just the original version so there isn't really anything new for people to experience.

Yeah, plus the new versions have censored Wolf levels, pill medikits, a really bad implementation of pitch shifting, play all sound effects at 11025 Hz, and butcher Nightmare! skill level because they don't understand how to fix the fast & slow demons bug apparently.

To me, consoles ended with the Gamecube (maybe the Wii if I'm feeling generous) anyways. Anything newer than that is a PC with a bunch of DRM built in.

[Dave The Daring]

The Jaguar version has the objectively superior soundtrack. No cheesy, faux-rock MIDI tracks and no long, drawn out, boring ambient so-called music.

There. I said it.