That blue key, Doom 2 map The Citadel

[Chewyninja69]

Is there an alternate way of getting it, aside from run-jumping to it and the way you're "suppose" to get it? I'm searching for an alternate door, but can't seem to locate it, if it exists. I'm on the PS3, so the run-jump isn't really a viable option is why I'm asking/wondering.

[BaronOfStuff]

Nope. That's the only way to get it legit (because actual jumping is for scrubs and noobs), which you'll have to take anyway if you're going for UV-Max because the teleport landing is in one of those stupid "secret" areas.

The key itself isn't actually required though if you have the Red & Yellow Skullkeys.

[Chewyninja69]

BaronOfStuff said:

Nope. That's the only way to get it legit (because actual jumping is for scrubs and noobs), which you'll have to take anyway if you're going for UV-Max because the teleport landing is in one of those stupid "secret" areas.

The key itself isn't actually required though if you have the Red & Yellow Skullkeys.

You can't jump on the PS3 version (and yeah, that is for scrubs) and I was trying to speedrun through levels, hoping to find a shortcut for time. Thanks.

[Patrol1985]

Hehe, Citadel strikes again... that map will haunt Doom players until the end of the world :D No other map frustrated me as much as this... perhaps some would, but nowadays I have easy access to walkthroughs etc. in case I'm stuck. Back when such solutions were not available Citadel was THE map to stop my progress.

[Chewyninja69]

Patrol1985 said:

Hehe, Citadel strikes again... that map will haunt Doom players until the end of the world :D No other map frustrated me as much as this... perhaps some would, but nowadays I have easy access to walkthroughs etc. in case I'm stuck. Back when such solutions were not available Citadel was THE map to stop my progress.

What's your opinion (of my least favorite maps) The Chasm and Perfect Hatred?

[VGamingJunkie]

I will say one thing in Citadel's favor, I like maps where you go around hunting for 3 keys to get to the exit (Ultimate Doom had one of those) because it makes it non-linear and you can go wherever you want, choosing the order you get them in.

[VGA]

MetroidJunkie said:

I will say one thing in Citadel's favor, I like maps where you go around hunting for 3 keys to get to the exit (Ultimate Doom had one of those) because it makes it non-linear and you can go wherever you want, choosing the order you get them in.

Yes and the reward is greater when using all the keys at once!

[Torturephile]

Patrol1985 said:

... Citadel was THE map to stop my progress.

I would also often skip that map, either by IDCLEV'ing to map 20 or by IDCLIP'ing to the exit. For a considerable amount of time, I didn't bother to play it at all without cheating.

[drygnfyre]

I always found it weird how both Maps 19 and 21 have exits wide enough that you can squeeze through with only two of the keys. In both instances, I think it's the blue key you can skip.

Never understand why it was setup like that, although maybe the idea was to trick a player into getting all the keys, while someone a bit more clever would realize there's a shortcut.

As for Map 19 itself, it's never been that memorable to me. I don't hate it, but not one of my favorite Doom 2 maps. I replayed it recently, though, and found that I did like the general layout of it. And it had a little teleporting puzzle, another theme that was on several Doom 2 maps.

[scifista42]

drygnfyre said:

Never understand why it was setup like that, although maybe the idea was to trick a player into getting all the keys, while someone a bit more clever would realize there's a shortcut.

More likely it's simply the mapper's mistake / oversight.

[BaronOfStuff]

Almost certainly an oversight. The team needed to throw together 32 maps in a matter of months, with the author of any given map most likely being the sole playtester of it too (meaning they knew where to go in order to acquire the keys ASAP, and didn't spend any time scratching around in a random order and inadvertently discover any possible shortcuts or exploits).

[Xaser]

MAP19's seems intentional to me (you need either the blue or yellow key; don't need both), partially though because of how difficult it is to get the keys in the first place. It's a cryptic maze you don't necessarily have to beat 100%. Just vibes, though.

MAP21's key skip, on the other hand, looks like an "oops" for sure. :P

[NoXion]

What is a scrub?

[scifista42]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scrub

[Doomkid]

The accurate answer is "what nurses wear", or "the act of cleaning, usually either with a sponge or cloth".


I think I've grabbed that blue key about 4 times over the years... Always skipped it. I'm quite sure not needing all 3 was intentional. If Petersen had wanted the player to have all 3 keys, not only would that be unruly cruel on a mazey fuckfest like The Citadel, but he would have simply made 3 sets of bars. If the space was really narrow and you had to squeeze through, I'd say it was an accident, but to my eyes it seems clearly intentional. Just another one of those old Doom mysteries!

[VGamingJunkie]

You'd think the goof on episode 21 would be very easy to spot if that is indeed the case. With Citadel, you have to open two of the doors to notice but, with the key doors in 21, you can just press yourself against it and immediately go through it. Did the guy not bother checking at all when he made the key doors that way? Makes me think it was on purpose.

[drygnfyre]

MetroidJunkie said:

You'd think the goof on episode 21 would be very easy to spot if that is indeed the case. With Citadel, you have to open two of the doors to notice but, with the key doors in 21, you can just press yourself against it and immediately go through it. Did the guy not bother checking at all when he made the key doors that way? Makes me think it was on purpose.

Map 21, in general, is probably in the running for "worst vanilla Doom map." There's just very little I like about it. The layout feels a bit bland, and the teleporter puzzle (if you can even call it that) reminds me a bit of E2M1. It's just kind of an ugly level. You have several big rooms, a few traps here and there. Overall, this map just feels like a waste of time.

Maybe the idea, as I alluded to earlier, was a novice player would see the exit being guarded by all the keys, and go get the blue key. You know, just to waste their time.