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zzzornbringer

[alpha release] powerstation 8120 - deathmatch 2-4 players

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i feel that i'm at a point where i can call this alpha version.

plz check out the map, give feedback, report bugs... the map uses zandronum udmf format.

you can download the file here:
https://mega.nz/#!C9hQXBiT!d-LExxZUkjvX41Q9cRrsHdjxhfupQ0fl29i2_I7WeWM

enjoy...

latest screenshots:

album:
https://imgur.com/a/urYOn

















--- old stuff ---
initially started with an idea for a simple room. thought i'd expand it. ended up with a known design. you'll probably know this map from quake 3. it's q3tourny1, powerstation 0218, to be precise.

https://ws.q3df.org/map/q3tourney1/

it's still pretty early. starting a detail pass for the second room now. third room and hallways don't have any details whatsoever. for items, i tried to re-create the original layout but also added an extra shotgun to the room on the right side. as you see, i made heavy use of curves. this is a feature in gzdoombuilder.

here are some screenshots:








updated download:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzxIGzGJnU7_TXV0N2lWMzRoRDg/view?usp=sharing


should run with gzdoom. map is in UDMF format which is required for gzdoombuilder. name is unchanged: "MAP01".

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Just for your info, GZDoomBuilder can be used to make classic Doom format maps to run in vanilla or any source port, it doesn't "only" support UDMF and GZDoom.

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scifista42 said:

Just for your info, GZDoomBuilder can be used to make classic Doom format maps to run in vanilla or any source port, it doesn't "only" support UDMF and GZDoom.


hm, when i click on new map, it only shows the udmf format. maybe i'm doing something wrong?! doesn't matter though. i always use this format.

quick update:

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updated the map a bit. some feedback would be much appreciated. i'm specifically looking for feedback on the room that you see on the latest screenshot.



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This map looks gorgeous.. Please try to refrain from using UDMF for Deathmatch, unless you want to exclude Zdaemon, Odamex (iffy UDMF compat) and Vanilla/Choco DMers, or you have some super-special effect in the map that you don't want to cut. (Judging from the screens alone, this looks quite vanilla.)

I'm only saying this because it looks lovely and would be a damn shame if 60% of DMers can't even play the darn thing. If the only tagged actions are basic things (doors, lifts, the typical Doom stuff) a conversion to Vanilla Doom or at least Boom format would be quite simple.

Keep up the good work, and unless you have a super jazzed-up UDMF effect you want to use, I really hope you consider my advice :)

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Doomkid said:

I'm only saying this because it looks lovely and would be a damn shame if 60% of DMers can't even play the darn thing.

I'm pretty sure zandronum itself has the majority of the players.

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thanks for the replies. thing is, gzdoombuilder only shows the udmf format and that's actually what i'm used to. there are a lot of lines in that map and i don't know if other formats support that.

generally, i would recommend using zandronum, because it allows you to use opengl which makes everything look super smooth and great. as far as i know, most people actually use zandronum.

updated download link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzxIGzGJnU7_TXV0N2lWMzRoRDg/view?usp=sharing

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Your map is entirely vanilla, by the looks and description. This is not an insult, by any measure. So I'm puzzled why you choose UDMF. Compatibility and cooperation is a spirit of the multiplayer scene.

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zzzornbringer said:

thanks for the replies. thing is, gzdoombuilder only shows the udmf format and that's actually what i'm used to.


No, if you go to "Tools -> Game Configurations", you can set up as many formats as you want to display. Note that you can copy-and-paste setups, so that you don't have to manually choose the source port exe for every format you use.

zzzornbringer said:

there are a lot of lines in that map and i don't know if other formats support that.


It honestly doesn't sound like you've ever looked at another map in the editor before. So far you have 1356 vertices, 1426 linedefs, 2474 sidedefs, 92 sectors; that's a tiny data count, and would be even if it were quadrupled.

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TheCupboard said:

Your map is entirely vanilla, by the looks and description. This is not an insult, by any measure. So I'm puzzled why you choose UDMF. Compatibility and cooperation is a spirit of the multiplayer scene.


i did choose it, because i didn't know that gzdoombuilder supports other formats as well. i always use this format, so i just sticked with it.

i try to figure out how to make this map more compatible.

rdwpa said:

If honestly doesn't sound like you've ever looked at another map in the editor before. So far you have 1356 vertices, 1426 linedefs, 2474 sidedefs, 92 sectors; that's a tiny data count, and would be even if it were quadrupled.


actually, i mostly look at my own maps. thing is, i put a lot of details in a small area. the vanilla game doesn't support this and cuts a lot of lines as a result. hence my assumption that certain source ports that are based on vanilla don't support that amount of detail.

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All source ports are based on vanilla, that's the point.

ZDaemon is based on ZDoom 1.23 which can more than handle monster massacre wads with ease.
Odamex is based on CS Doom which came from ZDoom 1.22. etc.

So you see, all the multiplayer ports are not that different from each other!

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jmickle66666666 said:

I'm pretty sure zandronum itself has the majority of the players.

It does, but they mainly play duel 32 and private CTF matches. You'll rarely get a full FFA game going, (unless it's their DM event FNF or whatever it is now). You'll more than likely get a DM game on different DM wads using ZDAEMON or Odamex (that used to be the case, I gave up MP a few years ago due to lack of time).

Anyway looking at this map's layout it looks quite good however, the fact that the top part has no other means of escape is a big no, no in my personal opinion, but the flow of the map looks good up until that point. I'll need to play it to fully get an opinion, though.

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zzzornbringer said:

actually, i mostly look at my own maps. thing is, i put a lot of details in a small area. the vanilla game doesn't support this and cuts a lot of lines as a result. hence my assumption that certain source ports that are based on vanilla don't support that amount of detail.


It'll crash in pure vanilla (e.g. Doom2.exe and the like), but limit-removing ports (even limit-removing vanilla ports) can handle maps like this pretty well.

The rooms you've done work on have a decent amount of detail but are very far from being excessively detailed (which is a good thing, imo, excessive detail isn't my cup of tea).

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jmickle66666666 said:

I'm pretty sure zandronum itself has the majority of the players.

General DOOM Players, yes. Deathmatch addicts... For sure not. Maybe 50% of the DM population plays mainly Zandronum. ZDaemon on average has far more active FFA servers, and even Odamex has a small but dedicated group of regulars.

My point is this - If your map is hardly using the UDMF advanced features, it's smarter to not exclude half the Deathmatching population for no good reason :) If the map was super heavy on the crazy effects, I'd never make such a suggestion, but it seems very vanilla.

TheCupboard said:

Your map is entirely vanilla, by the looks and description. This is not an insult, by any measure. So I'm puzzled why you choose UDMF. Compatibility and cooperation is a spirit of the multiplayer scene.

Cuppy gets it :)

Let me be clear with this, I want more people to be able to enjoy the map specifically because I think it looks darn good. If I thought the map was hopeless I'd never bother with such a suggestion, but as is I see no good reason not to just copy+paste this into a vanilla (or even boom) 'blank slate' and let everyone have a play of it, rather than just half of us.


EDIT:

rdwpa said:

The rooms you've done work on have a decent amount of detail but are very far from being excessively detailed (which is a good thing, imo, excessive detail isn't my cup of tea).

Certainly agree, this is just the right amount of detail. Clean, presentable, and very little visual clutter. I totally dig it.

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thanks for the kind words...

so, what format should i use to make the map as compatible as possible? i don't know a lot about this stuff. i just start the editor and go.

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Think about what sort of features you want to use, and then use the minimum compatibility level that supports that. I don't see any features so far that "Doom: Doom 2 (Doom format)" can't handle.

Also, I think that if you use an advanced format to support non-vanilla features, those features should end up being prominent or important aspects of the level. As a random example, it'd be wasteful to use an advanced format just for one script that says "This door can't be accessed" when you press use on certain decorations, when everything else in the map is vanilla compat.

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i actually use a very small script for that map. the metal walls of the big pillar in one of the rooms move up and down via floor_downbyvalue and ceiling upbyvalue and vise versa.

this is just an aesthetic thing. would this still work for more vanilla type formats?

i may also add some light flickers in later detail passes. other than that, the map is static and doesn't actually require any scripts whatsoever.

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Boom format is a pretty safe bet, all 3 of the main deathmatch ports support it, as well as ZDoom, PrBoom, (insert most ports here)

The effect you describe could be recreated fairly easily in Boom. All you'll have to do is go into 'linedefs' mode, select the whole map, copy it, make a new WAD in Boom format, paste the linedefs, then go back the the UDMF version, copy the 'things' and paste them in the Boom version. At that point all you'll have to do is re-tag things like doors and lifts, and that should be it. Painstaking for tag-heavy coop maps, but a breeze for simpler DM stuff like this.

Since you're used to UDMF it might take a few minutes to work stuff out, but all the same concepts apply. If you have any trouble recreating the effect in Boom, I'm certain anyone here will be willing to help :)

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Doomkid said:

Boom format ...


yea, i just tried to do what you've described but i used the classic doom:doom2(doom format). just wanted to see what works and what doesn't.

the lower grid lines don't always look like they should. some are slightly distorted. that's only visible if you take a really close look though. yet, not optimal. the script obviously doesn't work which isn't optimal either.

there are also some textures missing. seems that this format allows you to use certain textures only as ceiling/floor textures but not line textures. at least in the editor. in-game, they're shown. i replaced the missing textures. mostly looks good, sometimes even better but the blue lights that i use for the doors don't work which is not so nice. i can't rotate textures either. have to improvise.i also have to improvise for some other wall textures. sadly texture alignment isn't that easy with this format.

i'm thinking though. do i want to make compromises for maximum compatibility or do i just want to go the easy route and use zandronum. honestly, i tend towards zandronum. what i could also do is finish the map for zandronum and then make a more limited version for vanilla or boom. it's mostly some texture work and some line polish. that's probably what i'm going to do...

i guess that's the downside of openness. we don't have a standard. we have many ports, not all support the same stuff. would be better if we, as a community, find a standard for both singleplayer and multiplayer doom maps. i think i will not please everyone with sticking to the most popular ports but that's how i want to do it.

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zzzornbringer said:

i'm thinking though. do i want to make compromises for maximum compatibility or do i just want to go the easy route and use zandronum. honestly, i tend towards zandronum. what i could also do is finish the map for zandronum and then make a more limited version for vanilla or boom. it's mostly some texture work and some line polish. that's probably what i'm going to do...


I like this plan.

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Nothing wrong with ZDoom in Hexen format, yo. That's some powerful stuff, plenty of flexibility there. There are a lot of sample ACS scripts available on the ZDoom wiki and the ZDoom forums on top of that, not to mention all the knowledgeable people around here. But the best teacher is opening up other wads that use ACS and pick apart, piece by piece, what things you could use or imitate. A little copy+paste never hurt anyone, besides you're gonna have to change a lot of the variables and do the sector/things tags yourself.

UDMF is all good for singleplayer maps and such, or even if you really just are in love with it..

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TheCupboard said:

UDMF is all good for singleplayer maps and such, or even if you really just are in love with it..


honestly, i don't know all the little details about each of the formats. when i started making maps for doom, i just picked udmf, because it sounded like it's the most powerful. it did the job for all the maps i've been working on so far. i actually released another small deathmatch map a while back and no one complained that it was in udmf format.

there's also always the option that someone else just opens and edits my wad. there's no copyright on it. do with it whatever you like but mention my name somewhere.

anyways... this project is currently on hold. i've been sick for the last week, actually took antibiotics for an infected nose (extremely painful). went to the doctor on tuesday and some dude coughed in my direction and now i'm getting a cold. fortunately, my nose doesn't hurt anymore. but colds suck non the less. hope it won't get too bad. it's my first cold in almost four years. so, don't go outside people. stay inside, stay healthy. ;)

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started working on the final room. i call it "computer room". kind of funny how i managed to accidentally create a coherent theme throughout the map. i started with the "power control room". followed by some hallways with computers and additional power related consoles. the big room is the "power core" room. the last room is the, well, "computer" room. kind of works well together i think.

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the map is now in alpha stage. edited the first post to add the download link. here, have it one more time:

https://mega.nz/#!C9hQXBiT!d-LExxZUkjvX41Q9cRrsHdjxhfupQ0fl29i2_I7WeWM

let me know if you have any issues or suggestions. specifically i'm still looking for feedback for this room.

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