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PikaCommando

Best of John Romero?

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What would you guys consider to be Romero's finest maps from both Doom 1/2 and Quake?

For me, it would be:

Doom: E1M1: Hangar (obviously)
Ultimate Doom: E4M2: Perfect Hatred
Doom 2: MAP29: The Living End (Doom 2 has his weakest levels imo)
Quake: E1M1: The Slipgate Complex (on the other hand all his Quake levels are great)

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Doom: E1M3, primarily because of its secrets.
Doom2: MAP11, primarily because of its layout and architecture.
Quake: E2M2, primarily because of its non-linearity.

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Why, the first level of Daikatana, of course. What, he didn't design it himself but let his GF do it? Well, then...

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PikaCommando said:

What would you guys consider to be Romero's finest maps from both Doom 1/2 and Quake?

The Ultimate Doom : Both E4M2 , E4M6
Doom II : MAP11 , MAP15 , MAP17 , MAP29
QUAKE : All the levels made by him (I don't remember which ones but John Romero can't make not fine levels...)
Almost all of the confusing or complex maps was designed by John Romero.

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Doom:

E1M1: A perfect starter map. Easy to understand horseshoe design, very quick to run through, and makes a great deathmatch map.

E1M3: It took me a long time when I was little to figure out how to get to all of its secret rooms. The first time I realized there was a secret exit, it blew my mind. It's also the first map to introduce an optional keycard, and thus gives the player the option to get through the map quickly, at the expense of 100% stats, or take things slower and find everything that's hidden.

E4M2: I don't like it due to its difficulty, but there's no denying it's very well done. Compact in size, yet manages to cram in a large amount of design ideas: cramped quarters in the beginning, more open areas towards the end. And it lets you choose your play style: do you pick off the demons from far away, or conserve ammo and kill them with your fists later on? Do you want to kill the cyberdemon the hard way or the easy way? And in addition to all of that, it has a secret exit that isn't overly obvious, but doesn't require some absolutely cryptic set of steps to be followed.

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drygnfyre said:

E1M1: A perfect starter map. Easy to understand horseshoe design, very quick to run through, and makes a great deathmatch map.



While I agree with this there's always been something I've wondered from time to time. Would Doomers hold this map with such high regard if instead of the map being made by Romero as Doom's first level it was made by a random person of the community as a PWAD?

Anyways my picks would be...

Doom: E4M6
Doom II: Map11 (seems like a good DM map to me)

I love Quake but haven't played much in awhile so I really can't say.

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E1M2 is a great large map. It really emphasizes the importance of secrets and exploration, it sets those themes in your mind for the game ahead.

Map11 (Circle of Death) is by Romero? I thought it was Petersen! This has always been one of my favorites. Very clever design.

Map20 (Gotcha!) has that unforgettable Cyber VS Mastermind battle... Great hell themed map. 20 and 21 (Nirvana) shoulda been switched around, 21 is just generally lame, has the kinda boring D_COUNTD and would suit the city sky much better. Gotcha! is a better "hell episode" intro map far and away.

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E1M1: Nice and perfect starting map for DOOM, really love the horseshoe design as well.

E1M3: Very spooky and quite a nice level.

E4M2: Difficult, but still a very well designed level.

And all his Quake levels are good.

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Plucky said:

While I agree with this there's always been something I've wondered from time to time. Would Doomers hold this map with such high regard if instead of the map being made by Romero as Doom's first level it was made by a random person of the community as a PWAD?

I think it would, actually. As much as Romero may be liked, the map in of itself is very well designed for its intended purpose. Look at the DWANGO5 maps... Weren't designed by Romero, but still highly regarded because they are perfectly suited for their purpose.

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Chezza said:

E3M2


He didn't make that.


My votes would be E4M1 from Ultimate Doom + MAP11 from Doom 2. Not sure about Quake as I don't know it well enough to make an informed opinion.

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scifista42 said:

He didn't make that.


Oops poetic justice there for trying to be a know it all. I meant E4M2.

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My Romero favorites are:

Doom: E1M3, Toxin Refinery

Doom II: MAP17, Tenements

Quake: E2M5, The Wizard's Manse

Daikatana: I don't know which (if any) levels where designed by Romero, but I actually like the cyberpunk setting and layout of the Solitary levels.

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Tetzlaff said:

My Romero favorites are:

Doom: E1M3, Toxin Refinery

Doom II: MAP17, Tenements

Quake: E2M5, The Wizard's Manse

Daikatana: I don't know which (if any) levels where designed by Romero, but I actually like the cyberpunk setting and layout of the Solitary levels.


John Romero is actually not responsible for any Daikatana levels. He's only the project lead, main designer, and script writer.

The author of each Daikatana episodes are:

Episode 1 (Kyoto, Japan, 2455 AD.): Stevie 'KillCreek' Case
Episode 2 (Ancient Greece, 1200 BC.): John 'Dr. Sleep' Anderson
Episode 3 (Medieval Norway, 560 AD.): Matt 'DaBug' Hooper
Episode 4 (San Francisco, USA, 2030 AD.): Sverre 'Cranium' Kvernmo

You may notice the authors of Episode 2 and 4 are also among the authors of Master Levels for Doom 2. Most regard Episode 2 levels as the best in Daikatana.

Fun fact: Episode 4 levels are the least changed from 1997 until release in 2000.

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Wolfenstein 3D: meh. They pale compared to Tom Hall's. Anyway, I'd pick E5M7. It's a really badass level with tons of SS guys near the start.

Doom 1: E4M6. A total adventure, with new encounters (all those strange skull barriers and hop puzzles) and a seriously challenging boss. Doom 1 is the only game where Romero maps dominate.

Doom 2: MAP15. A wonderful and complex level, with good use of small monsters and VERY MUCH exploration.

Quake: I hardly remember his levels, especially his last E2 maps. They don't stand out at all, and they mostly rely on Ogres and Death Knights, nothing special. Still, a particularly evil level is The Crypt of Decay, which is super long and full of traps and shamblers.

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Avoozl said:

I thought Romero made all of Episode 4?


McGee
Romero
Green
Willits
And Anderson worked on E4.

Romero worked on (almost) all of E1.

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