Gez Posted September 21, 2015 Inspired by this edit I decided to take a look at the Mac version of Hexen, and for a start at the freely downloadable demo that can be found on ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/hexen/mac/. Extracting the goods involved using binhex and unsitins in DOSBox, which was fun. It's pretty interesting. Upon opening it in SLADE, I get warning messages that several lumps "did not decode properly", which means they looked like they used the same compression system as Jaguar Doom (but it's actually something different). A lot of lumps are far too small (4 bytes or less) to actually contain anything useful. MAP01 and MAP04 are made unplayable this way. There are high-res versions of some interface graphics at the end, including a high res title screen that's spread across four different lumps (which seem to be in 640x100 resolution each?). Is there any source port out there that tried to support the Mac version of Hexen? 0 Share this post Link to post
Blzut3 Posted September 22, 2015 Gez said:There are high-res versions of some interface graphics at the end, including a high res title screen that's spread across four different lumps (which seem to be in 640x100 resolution each?). Been awhile since I looked, but I think most of them looked like a filter rather than actual high resolution graphics. HHexen is supposed to support it. 0 Share this post Link to post
Quasar Posted September 22, 2015 Finding the actual full version of the game somewhere, or even any information about it, would be a fantastic start. Who developed it? Who published it? What was the release date? Was it on CD-ROM like the PC version? Did it similarly support Redbook audio? Did it have tight Mac OS integration like the versions of Doom released there did? Without all this info, I can't even start a wiki article on it, which really bothers me. Even worse, I've heard rumors of a Mac version of Heretic as well, which is even MORE elusive. 0 Share this post Link to post
Gez Posted September 22, 2015 For what it's worth, the demo contains a lump named PRSGCRED which presumably is short for "PRESAGE CREDITS": It answers partially some of these questions. Looking into the HHexen source code, I haven't found references to the high-res lumps (like H2BARL + H2BARR instead of just H2BAR) so it doesn't seem like it has a complete support for Mac Hexen. 0 Share this post Link to post
wildweasel Posted September 22, 2015 Quasar said:Finding the actual full version of the game somewhere, or even any information about it, would be a fantastic start. Who developed it? Who published it? What was the release date? Was it on CD-ROM like the PC version? Did it similarly support Redbook audio? Did it have tight Mac OS integration like the versions of Doom released there did? Without all this info, I can't even start a wiki article on it, which really bothers me. Even worse, I've heard rumors of a Mac version of Heretic as well, which is even MORE elusive. I have only a tiny bit of extra information about both of these - I don't own either of them, but I have mild experience with them. Mac Hexen was definitely released on CD-ROM, if I remember correctly it has the same CD audio as the DOS release, and the MIDI was also available to playback through QuickTime. This was an officially sanctioned release under id Software, and Deathkings also had a Mac release but I know even less about that. If I had to guess, that release happened around the same time as Mac Quake. Mac Heretic, on the other hand, was released around 1999, and is more-or-less a hobbyist project. I briefly toyed around with the "shareware" release that was distributed on a 1999-era MacAddict CD; aside from a few extra options in the menu bar (high resolution support and the like), it is probably identical to the PC release. I'll have to go grab the MacAddict disc in question again, probably, so I can see about offloading the data for further examination. 0 Share this post Link to post
RestlessRodent Posted September 23, 2015 At the time Hexen would have been released, Macs would still be using PowerPC. So it possible that data structures are in big endian rather than little endian (optimization!). EDIT: I do have a bunch of PowerMacs around me, so if it works in Mac OS X 10.5 then I can test it out (whenever I next boot into Mac OS X). However I do not have access to Mac OS 9 and such. 0 Share this post Link to post
fraggle Posted September 23, 2015 I have the full Mac version of Hexen. The IWAD is mostly identical to the DOS version, but it's missing a few lumps. It also contains these extra lumps: +CHAIN11 5668 Graphic +CHAIN12 5668 Graphic +CHAIN21 5668 Graphic +CHAIN22 5668 Graphic +CHAIN31 5668 Graphic +CHAIN32 5668 Graphic +LIFEGEM1 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMFB 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMFC 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMFD 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMFE 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMFF 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMFG 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMFH 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMCA 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMCB 4064 Graphic +LIFEGMCC 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMCD 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMCE 4064 Graphic +LIFEGMCF 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMCG 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMCH 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMM1 4064 Graphic +LIFEGMM2 4064 Graphic +LIFEGMM3 4064 Graphic +LIFEGMM4 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMM5 4064 Graphic +LIFEGMM6 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMM7 3964 Graphic +LIFEGMM8 3964 Graphic +FONTA011 232 Graphic +FONTA021 264 Graphic +FONTA031 408 Graphic +FONTA041 364 Graphic +FONTA051 400 Graphic +FONTA061 316 Graphic +FONTA071 180 Graphic +FONTA081 268 Graphic +FONTA091 264 Graphic +FONTA101 292 Graphic +FONTA111 268 Graphic +FONTA121 180 Graphic +FONTA131 220 Graphic +FONTA141 144 Graphic +FONTA151 220 Graphic +FONTA161 432 Graphic +FONTA171 380 Graphic +FONTA181 496 Graphic +FONTA191 504 Graphic +FONTA201 404 Graphic +FONTA211 504 Graphic +FONTA221 428 Graphic +FONTA231 404 Graphic +FONTA241 476 Graphic +FONTA251 432 Graphic +FONTA261 200 Graphic +FONTA271 224 Graphic +FONTA281 316 Graphic +FONTA291 276 Graphic +FONTA301 316 Graphic +FONTA311 360 Graphic +FONTA321 504 Graphic +FONTA331 400 Graphic +FONTA341 436 Graphic +FONTA351 396 Graphic +FONTA361 432 Graphic +FONTA371 396 Graphic +FONTA381 432 Graphic +FONTA391 416 Graphic +FONTA401 444 Graphic +FONTA411 268 Graphic +FONTA421 332 Graphic +FONTA431 428 Graphic +FONTA441 292 Graphic +FONTA451 392 Graphic +FONTA461 416 Graphic +FONTA471 388 Graphic +FONTA481 420 Graphic +FONTA491 420 Graphic +FONTA501 408 Graphic +FONTA511 364 Graphic +FONTA521 384 Graphic +FONTA531 412 Graphic +FONTA541 384 Graphic +FONTA551 364 Graphic +FONTA561 404 Graphic +FONTA571 408 Graphic +FONTA581 416 Graphic +FONTA591 220 Graphic +FONTAZ01 232 Graphic +FONTAZ02 264 Graphic +FONTAZ03 408 Graphic +FONTAZ04 364 Graphic +FONTAZ05 392 Graphic +FONTAZ06 316 Graphic +FONTAZ07 180 Graphic +FONTAZ08 268 Graphic +FONTAZ09 264 Graphic +FONTAZ10 292 Graphic +FONTAZ11 268 Graphic +FONTAZ12 180 Graphic +FONTAZ13 220 Graphic +FONTAZ14 144 Graphic +FONTAZ15 220 Graphic +FONTAZ16 428 Graphic +FONTAZ17 380 Graphic +FONTAZ18 492 Graphic +FONTAZ19 504 Graphic +FONTAZ20 404 Graphic +FONTAZ21 504 Graphic +FONTAZ22 428 Graphic +FONTAZ23 404 Graphic +FONTAZ24 472 Graphic +FONTAZ25 432 Graphic +FONTAZ26 200 Graphic +FONTAZ27 228 Graphic +FONTAZ28 316 Graphic +FONTAZ29 276 Graphic +FONTAZ30 316 Graphic +FONTAZ31 364 Graphic +FONTAZ32 504 Graphic +FONTAZ33 400 Graphic +FONTAZ34 436 Graphic +FONTAZ35 396 Graphic +FONTAZ36 436 Graphic +FONTAZ37 396 Graphic +FONTAZ38 432 Graphic +FONTAZ39 412 Graphic +FONTAZ40 448 Graphic +FONTAZ41 268 Graphic +FONTAZ42 332 Graphic +FONTAZ43 432 Graphic +FONTAZ44 292 Graphic +FONTAZ45 392 Graphic +FONTAZ46 416 Graphic +FONTAZ47 388 Graphic +FONTAZ48 420 Graphic +FONTAZ49 420 Graphic +FONTAZ50 408 Graphic +FONTAZ51 360 Graphic +FONTAZ52 384 Graphic +FONTAZ53 416 Graphic +FONTAZ54 388 Graphic +FONTAZ55 364 Graphic +FONTAZ56 404 Graphic +FONTAZ57 408 Graphic +FONTAZ58 416 Graphic +FONTAZ59 220 Graphic +FONTC01 52 Graphic +FONTC02 52 Graphic +FONTC03 52 Graphic +FONTC04 52 Graphic +FONTC05 820 Graphic +FONTC06 52 Graphic +FONTC07 232 Graphic +FONTC08 52 Graphic +FONTC09 52 Graphic +FONTC10 52 Graphic +FONTC11 52 Graphic +FONTC12 232 Graphic +FONTC13 428 Graphic +FONTC14 224 Graphic +FONTC15 564 Graphic +FONTC16 700 Graphic +FONTC17 372 Graphic +FONTC18 744 Graphic +FONTC19 868 Graphic +FONTC20 608 Graphic +FONTC21 768 Graphic +FONTC22 764 Graphic +FONTC23 612 Graphic +FONTC24 816 Graphic +FONTC25 788 Graphic +FONTC26 316 Graphic +FONTC27 52 Graphic +FONTC28 52 Graphic +FONTC29 52 Graphic +FONTC30 52 Graphic +FONTC31 768 Graphic +FONTC32 52 Graphic +FONTC33 744 Graphic +FONTC34 792 Graphic +FONTC35 612 Graphic +FONTC36 796 Graphic +FONTC37 644 Graphic +FONTC38 528 Graphic +FONTC39 884 Graphic +FONTC40 820 Graphic +FONTC41 476 Graphic +FONTC42 588 Graphic +FONTC43 868 Graphic +FONTC44 420 Graphic +FONTC45 1048 Graphic +FONTC46 800 Graphic +FONTC47 752 Graphic +FONTC48 928 Graphic +FONTC49 756 Graphic +FONTC50 484 Graphic +FONTC51 668 Graphic +FONTC52 460 Graphic +FONTC53 684 Graphic +FONTC54 664 Graphic +FONTC55 1004 Graphic +FONTC56 684 Graphic +FONTC57 692 Graphic +FONTC58 664 Graphic +PAUSED1 8052 Graphic +FBULA1 18316 Graphic +FBULB1 18308 Graphic +FBULC1 18308 Graphic +FBULD1 18308 Graphic +FBULE1 18308 Graphic +FBULF1 18308 Graphic +FBULG1 18308 Graphic +TITLE1 64000 Lump of raw data +TITLE2 64000 Lump of raw data +TITLE3 64000 Lump of raw data +TITLE4 64000 Lump of raw data +PRSGCRED 64000 Lump of raw data +IN01 408 Graphic +IN11 184 Graphic +IN21 456 Graphic +IN31 416 Graphic +IN41 328 Graphic +IN51 452 Graphic +IN61 448 Graphic +IN71 328 Graphic +IN81 440 Graphic +IN91 420 Graphic +NEGNUM1 164 Graphic +SMALLINA 168 Graphic +SMALLINB 84 Graphic +SMALLINC 172 Graphic +SMALLIND 176 Graphic +SMALLINE 144 Graphic +SMALLINF 176 Graphic +SMALLING 172 Graphic +SMALLINH 132 Graphic +SMALLINI 168 Graphic +SMALLINJ 172 Graphic +INRED01 408 Graphic +INRED11 184 Graphic +INRED21 456 Graphic +INRED31 416 Graphic +INRED41 328 Graphic +INRED51 452 Graphic +INRED61 448 Graphic +INRED71 328 Graphic +INRED81 440 Graphic +INRED91 420 Graphic +M_SLCTRA 1100 Graphic +M_SLCTRB 1100 Graphic +M_SLDLT1 1784 Graphic +M_SLDMDA 568 Graphic +M_SLDMDB 568 Graphic +M_SLDRT1 1784 Graphic +M_SLDKB1 652 Graphic +M_HTIC1 13124 Graphic +LOADICOM 25540 Graphic +SAVEICOM 26000 Graphic +TELEICOM 31060 Graphic +H2BARL 30876 Graphic +H2BARR 30836 Graphic +H2TOPL 5392 Graphic +H2TOPR 5352 Graphic +LFEDGE1 1964 Graphic +RTEDGE1 1988 Graphic +ARMCLS1 1932 Graphic +ARTICLS1 4536 Graphic +MANAVL11 580 Graphic +MANAVL21 580 Graphic +MANAVL1E 580 Graphic +MANAVL2E 580 Graphic +MANACLS1 1000 Graphic +MANADIMA 1060 Graphic +MANADIMB 1060 Graphic +MANABRTA 1060 Graphic +MANABRTB 1060 Graphic +INVBARL 17332 Graphic +INVBARR 17332 Graphic +STATBARL 17332 Graphic +SLECTBOY 1776 Graphic +KILLS1 4148 Graphic +WPSLOT01 7876 Graphic +WPSLOT11 7876 Graphic +WPSLOT21 7876 Graphic +WPFULL01 7876 Graphic +WPFULL11 7876 Graphic +WPFULL21 7876 Graphic +WPIECEFA 4840 Graphic +WPIECECA 3184 Graphic +WPIECEMA 1940 Graphic +WPIECEFB 1252 Graphic +WPIECECB 1804 Graphic +WPIECEMB 2632 Graphic +WPIECEFC 1804 Graphic +WPIECECC 2908 Graphic +WPIECEMC 3184 Graphic Not sure what these are all for, but they're probably to do with the Mac interface like you say. Also, the install CD has ~40 icons laid out in a grid that make up the Hexen logo, but viewing it on OS X it looks like some kind of crazy advent calendar. 0 Share this post Link to post
Gez Posted September 23, 2015 fraggle said:It also contains these extra lumps: <snip> Not sure what these are all for, but they're probably to do with the Mac interface like you say. Yeah. CHAIN: 246x7 CHAIN11: 246x14 CHAIN12: 246x14 Glue together CHAIN11 and CHAIN12, and you have a high-res version of CHAIN. Same deal for CHAIN2 with CHAIN21 and CHAIN22, or CHAIN3 with CHAIN31 and CHAIN32. Likewise LIFEGEM has a high-res counterpart in LIFEGEM1, LIFEGMF2 has LIFEGMFB, etc. If a graphic would get above 320 width, they split it in two, this can be seen with the chains as well as with H2BAR (H2BARL+H2BARR), H2TOP (H2TOPL+H2TOPR), INVBAR (INVBARL+INVBARR) and STATBAR (STATBARL+STATBARR). I'm not sure why -- it's not a limitation of the format. Also they forgot to make a high res version of KEYBAR. It's also interesting that they split TITLE into four slices of 640x100 pixels (it's raw data, I'm not sure what could have stopped them from putting all 640x400 pixels in the same lump), and they haven't made their credit screen high res. 0 Share this post Link to post
andrewj Posted September 23, 2015 Gez said:It's also interesting that they split TITLE into four slices of 640x100 pixels (it's raw data, I'm not sure what could have stopped them from putting all 640x400 pixels in the same lump) Perhaps some code was limited to 16 bit offsets (640x100 = 64000, which is just under 2^16). 0 Share this post Link to post
Blzut3 Posted September 24, 2015 Quasar said:Even worse, I've heard rumors of a Mac version of Heretic as well, which is even MORE elusive. As WildWeasel said, Mac Heretic is a fan port. At least as far as I'm aware the only sanctioned port of Heretic was to the Acorn Archimedes (which are fairly interesting ports). If I recall correctly in the last thread Mac Heretic was mentioned, the person who thought they had it either confirmed it was the fan port or didn't look. 0 Share this post Link to post
Gez Posted September 24, 2015 andrewj said:Perhaps some code was limited to 16 bit offsets (640x100 = 64000, which is just under 2^16). Perhaps. Speaking of offsets, I've noticed in the demo IWAD that the lump offsets are 4-byte aligned. SIDEDEFS: size 83610, actualsize 83612 SECTORS: size 10426, actualsize 10428 REJECT: size 20101, actualsize 20104 BLOCKMAP: size 13942, actualsize 13944 etc. (not gonna paste the whole output, it'd be pointless.) size is the declared lump size in the directory, actual size is the total amount of bytes between that lump's start offset and the next lump's start offset. This is not a thing in the PC IWADs. In that respect, the Hexen Mac IWAD is like the console Doom IWADs I have checked. 0 Share this post Link to post
Blzut3 Posted September 25, 2015 I could be wrong, but I believe PowerPC (and maybe 68k) are highly sensitive to memory alignment. That is while a PowerPC Mac can do unaligned access (unlike consoles which will crash) it's much slower than aligned. It's possible they felt the optimization was worth it? 0 Share this post Link to post
MrFlibble Posted November 3, 2016 Sorry for bumping this, but I didn't want to start a separate thread for basically the same subject. Recently I've taken quite some interest in Mac ports of open source games, like Duke Nukem 3D or Descent/Descent II. Descent is particularly noteworthy as the DX1-Rebirth port supports Mac data (including the demo), allowing to play the game with a high-res HUD: Anyways I also thought it would be a good idea to check out the Hexen Mac demo, which I did. I first opened the IWAD with the Game File Explorer and then also XWE, confirming that the data is readable on little-endian systems. Then I tried to use the demo IWAD with ZDoom, but it failed to load the first level, giving an error report. Also it seems to not make any use of the high-resolution graphics and fonts. While the Mac HUD and fonts aren't anything special, they're still a nice thing to have, especially since the Mac port is official. Considering this, are there any ports other than the aforementioned Linux one that may read and use Mac Hexen IWADs? [Edit] I've just found a YouTube video of the Mac version running with high-res interface: https://youtu.be/2arJ02nVIRo It would also be nice to have the music working like that too, but it is my understanding that this requires support for some Mac-native format (the Mac demo seems to still contain MIDI music which is not used). 0 Share this post Link to post
