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antares031

Struggle : Antaresian Legacy (now available in /idgames)

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Cool map! I really liked the style. I think that the revenant is a bit OP, the missile is very fast now. I reached the exit switch and I was missing 1 monsters, I saw that one of the imps in the closets didn't teleport.
Btw I really feel the urge to play this map with a berserk pack :P

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gaspe said:

...I think that the revenant is a bit OP, the missile is very fast now.


I tried to replace its annoying homing missile, so now it has twin missiles with three times faster than the original one. (plus a slight boost in damage)
Still, I'm so glad that it no longer shoots homing missile :)

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Some advice...

If you want to make a limit-removing wad, you should test it in prboom-plus with the -complevel 2 command line parameter. Testing only in ZDoom won't do because it "forgives" many things that result in errors in less advanced ports. Here are the problems I noticed while playing in prboom-plus with -complevel 2:

- The sounds contain lots of noise (HSSSHHH) because you aren't using the 8-bit mono WAV format. You need to convert all sounds to the Doom format using this utility or some other.
- The linedef 1906 door can't be opened because there is another trigger linedef too close to it. In classic Doom, if there are several triggers in front of the player, he will only be able to activate the closest one.
- Some items appear "floating" in the air because they're placed too close to nearby borders.

I highly recommend to start testing your wad in prboom-plus right now, it will save you a lot of time in the long run.


Next. I think you shouldn't be so fixated on the idea of creating a megawad. Why does it necessarily have to be a megawad? Because megawads are cool? That's not really a good reason. IMO you shouldn't go for a megawad unless you are very confident in yourself (and you admitted that you aren't so confident). Otherwise, it will only lead to disappointment. Of course if you dream of an awesome 32 map megawad and then run out of ideas after 5 maps, you'll be feeling down. But if you approach this project less ambitiously and aim for just a few maps, then you'll feel a certain satisfaction when you're done. And then maybe you can continue if you have more inspiration. But I think you should get rid of this "32 levels or bust" attitude because it's just destructive.


And regarding making non-linear maps, it's a little surprising to see you asking this question because your Antaresia maps were quite non-linear, weren't they? So why don't you apply same design principles to this wad? Yes, this time it's single player instead of deathmatch but perhaps the difference between maps for these modes isn't as big as you may think. I mean you still need interesting locations that are connected in multiple ways and are fun to run around in, etc. Just try to avoid thinking in the "from start to exit" fashion and work on expanding several areas simultaneously. Like, make a starting room with 2 ways to choose from. Work on both of them at the same time. At some point they will intersect and then you'll be able to connect them. Make some doors or lifts or tunnels here and there even if you don't have a plan on what to do with them yet. Just leave them there and maybe eventually you will think of something. I believe you can do it because Antaresia had some interesting layouts. :)

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I really liked the map & texturing. Memfis gives good advice, I recommend following it :) Otherwise keep it up, aside from the small compatibility issues this is pretty stellar. If you do make a "mini megawad" - 5 maps or so - It's sometimes nice to have a few that are linear. A mix is a good thing!

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I agree with and reinforce what Memphis said: Making a megawad is a bad idea unless you really have all the energy and resilience to deal with 32 levels, which it has a high chance of not being played by the majority of players. (except for the first levels). I'm saying this as a self experience lol. I tried to make two megawads (eclipse and discovering the hell: the 5 worlds), and I've got into half-way for both, and you know what? They both suck and have many problems I've could avoided if I released the levels in smaller sets lol

If you want to keep with a pattern, I'd suggest a 8 level mapset, like an episode for Doom 1. I think it's a good length, most of people will play it and give a good feedback.

About being non-linear, I agree with you, it's harder to do it, especially that the mapper must be aware of the multiply routes and not let him get into a dead end lol Also, you will have to be more creative about encounters, entrance and exit points, decide if the player should leave the setpiece or not, etc.

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Memfis said:

...Here are the problems I noticed while playing in prboom-plus with -complevel 2:
- The sounds contain lots of noise (HSSSHHH) because you aren't using the 8-bit mono WAV format. You need to convert all sounds to the Doom format using this utility or some other.
- The linedef 1906 door can't be opened because there is another trigger linedef too close to it. In classic Doom, if there are several triggers in front of the player, he will only be able to activate the closest one.
- Some items appear "floating" in the air because they're placed too close to nearby borders.

...And regarding making non-linear maps, it's a little surprising to see you asking this question because your Antaresia maps were quite non-linear, weren't they? So why don't you apply same design principles to this wad? Yes, this time it's single player instead of deathmatch but perhaps the difference between maps for these modes isn't as big as you may think...


Thank you for useful advices!! I'll use not only ZDoom, but PRBoom to test maps next time. I notice major bugs you mentioned right after i tried prboom, and that pistol sound was really awful :(
I'm using Goldwave to convert sound files to 8-bit unsigned one, but I didn't convert that pistol sound which is my mistake. D:
And sadly, the link you attached doesn't work for me since my Google Chrome blocks me to download it. Maybe the browser misunderstands that it's a harmful program.
Still, I've found an alternative way to convert it by using SLADE3. It helps me to convert sound files inside the wad to doom sound format.
I'll also keep in mind that advice about making megawad. :)

About non-linear maps, my every works for single player before had boring linear style. After I made around 10 maps, and I noticed that all of them are quite linear, including a video footage below.
Catastrophe MAP12: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9wn6j6ari4
I don't know why, but I make linear circulations unintentionally whenever I draw single player maps.



Doomkid said:

I really liked the map & texturing. Memfis gives good advice, I recommend following it :) Otherwise keep it up, aside from the small compatibility issues this is pretty stellar. If you do make a "mini megawad" - 5 maps or so - It's sometimes nice to have a few that are linear. A mix is a good thing!


I'm glad you like the map. I'll make sure to put some linear maps, as mini-boss levels. :)
Right now, MAP06 is planned as a mini-boss level, introducing new monster (replacing Wolfenstein SS).



Deadwing said:

...I'm saying this as a self experience lol. I tried to make two megawads (eclipse and discovering the hell: the 5 worlds), and I've got into half-way for both, and you know what? They both suck and have many problems I've could avoided if I released the levels in smaller sets lol
If you want to keep with a pattern, I'd suggest a 8 level mapset, like an episode for Doom 1. I think it's a good length, most of people will play it and give a good feedback.


That's correct. I already scrapped some megawad projects, although I didn't post on the forum. I still have numerous maps that unmerged into one wad.
Perhaps I can release my work in episodes, like MAP01~06 or MAP12~20, to lessen a load. Thanks for the advice. :)

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Woah, groovy! I really liked this map, and cool dehacked modifications too! This kinda reminded me of NeoDoom a bit, and the changes to the weapons and monsters (sounds too) was also quite refreshing. I saw the chaingun replacement, duel pistols is always badass :D. About the wad length 6-10 maps would probably be good. Also what are the MIDIs (particularly map01 and map18) from? I love them >.<

NINJA EDIT: I think I found the MIDI sources in your deathmatch release

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SuperCupcakeTactics said:

...Also what are the MIDIs (particularly map01 and map18) from? I love them >.<

NINJA EDIT: I think I found the MIDI sources in your deathmatch release


Although you found the sources of soundtrack, here's the download link of every MIDI files just in case.
MAP01 uses Stage011.mid, and MAP18 uses GM05.mid of Fortress 2 Blue version 2.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qd22908v456tx1p/musics.zip



Hellbent said:

I really liked this level, too. There are more maps coming?


Here's blueprints of maps I'm working on. They're still work in progress, and I hope to finish them. :3

Spoiler

MAP02:
MAP03:
MAP05:

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Nice map, the powerful melee berserk axe was quite satisfying. I think you should maybe replace a grenade or two with shotgun shells to have the shotgun last longer earlier in the map. This wad is really cool, it kinda reminds me of those partial conversion wads from the 90s, keep it up :)

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SuperCupcakeTactics said:

Nice map, the powerful melee berserk axe was quite satisfying. I think you should maybe replace a grenade or two with shotgun shells to have the shotgun last longer earlier in the map. This wad is really cool, it kinda reminds me of those partial conversion wads from the 90s, keep it up :)


Thanks for a feedback! I've just replaced some grenades around the stream. And I'm glad that you liked a melee replacement :)

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I think I don't like the new revenants... They force the player to hide behind the walls after every shot, it's just kind of tedious to fight them. Also that part in Map02 where two revenants appear on top and some demons on bottom - so crazy, I died very quickly there.

The new level is nice overall, perhaps one criticism I can give is that it's all just small rooms and nothing else. Maybe it would be good to have some larger areas here and there for variety. Also the switch that opens the blue key confused me a little: I had no idea what it did and had to look at the map in Doom Builder.

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MAP02 is pretty nice, and I think you are doing well for the non-linearity. Still I don't like so much the revenants change. Btw cool melee replacements, lol.

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Memfis said:

I think I don't like the new revenants... They force the player to hide behind the walls after every shot, it's just kind of tedious to fight them. Also that part in Map02 where two revenants appear on top and some demons on bottom - so crazy, I died very quickly there.

The new level is nice overall, perhaps one criticism I can give is that it's all just small rooms and nothing else. Maybe it would be good to have some larger areas here and there for variety. Also the switch that opens the blue key confused me a little: I had no idea what it did and had to look at the map in Doom Builder.


The role of new revenant is same as original arachnotron; shooting fast, non-homing direct projectiles.
Still, I'm gonna modify the speed of rocket a little bit slower, which is as same as arachnotron's plasma gun.
By the way, while revenants are shooting fast projectiles, arachnotrons are now equipped with a heavy machinegun.

About MAP02, a cluster of small rooms was a concept of map, just like original MAP02 from Doom 2.
Later levels will feature some outdoor challenge like a screenshot below. It's still work in progress.

Spoiler




gaspe said:

MAP02 is pretty nice, and I think you are doing well for the non-linearity. Still I don't like so much the revenants change. Btw cool melee replacements, lol.


I'll adjust the revenant like I mentioned above. And yeah, I always wanted to put my hammer and drill machine as melee weapons xD



SuperCupcakeTactics said:

I think I'm okay with the revenants, you just gotta run at them zig-zag right? Makes a nice turret like how its been being used so far I think.


As long as it doesn't shoot annoying homing missile, anything is fine with me. :)



Gustavo6046 said:

I could contribute these maps to your WAD. Just don't need to fit the exact map numbers the maps have in Devile 2. Also that is another Megawad project.


Thanks, but I want to finish the project with my own levels. You can contribute your work to another community project. Good luck.

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I've played the first 2 levels, and wow, the experience was really good :D

Overall the new style is quite refreshing, with lots of new white textures, weapons and new enemy balance. The new weapons are really cool and the sprites work well. The only exception is maybe the hammer, which when you attack, there's a frame where the player's hand is cut. New enemy balance is nice too, it's like playing Doom on steroids haha Everything is faster and deadlier, especially the new revenant lol Soundtrack is amazing too and you did a pretty good job on detailing the levels, it's clean but well done, remembers me a bit Scythe.

On specifics, first level is linear, but I liked how it's pathway was well integrated, so the player gets to revisit lots of older areas. I got a bit lost in the switch where you had to shot from far away, but probably that was my fault.

Second level was even better than the first, with non-linear layout, where I was able to explore a lot, and I got lost in some moments, but that was in a good way. Overall the level was easier than the first one, except for the blue key trap which was too hard to me (the one where the doors close with the weird faces texture, and there's two revs on top with a lot of monsters on the ground). There was way too many monsters and I couldn't kill them all before getting killed. However, I was able to pass that area by cheesing in a column in the very corner where I was well covered hahaha You might want to fix that though :P

Well, I can't wait for more levels :)

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Deadwing said:

I've played the first 2 levels, and wow, the experience was really good :D

Overall the new style is quite refreshing, with lots of new white textures, weapons and new enemy balance. The new weapons are really cool and the sprites work well. The only exception is maybe the hammer, which when you attack, there's a frame where the player's hand is cut. New enemy balance is nice too, it's like playing Doom on steroids haha Everything is faster and deadlier, especially the new revenant lol Soundtrack is amazing too and you did a pretty good job on detailing the levels, it's clean but well done, remembers me a bit Scythe.

On specifics, first level is linear, but I liked how it's pathway was well integrated, so the player gets to revisit lots of older areas. I got a bit lost in the switch where you had to shot from far away, but probably that was my fault.

Second level was even better than the first, with non-linear layout, where I was able to explore a lot, and I got lost in some moments, but that was in a good way. Overall the level was easier than the first one, except for the blue key trap which was too hard to me (the one where the doors close with the weird faces texture, and there's two revs on top with a lot of monsters on the ground). There was way too many monsters and I couldn't kill them all before getting killed. However, I was able to pass that area by cheesing in a column in the very corner where I was well covered hahaha You might want to fix that though :P

Well, I can't wait for more levels :)


Thanks for the comment! I checked sprites of hammer, and I thought that frame B caused that problem. So I adjusted its coordinate a little bit, and It worked for me in both ZDoom and PrBoom.

Talking about the trap room in MAP02, that trap room will be modified a little bit in the next release, with fewer pinky and one less revenant (which was at right behind the switch. A hell knight will do his job instead).
And of course, now you don't want to stay at that very corner. Keep in mind that I'll apply every proper feedback. Thanks. :)

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Stop the random off-topic shameless plugging all over Wads&Mods threads, Gustavo. Every mapper makes maps, and has some early ones of his own. But they don't post into all other people's threads only to gather attention for themselves.

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scifista42 said:

Stop the random off-topic shameless plugging all over Wads&Mods threads, Gustavo. Every mapper makes maps, and has some early ones of his own. But they don't post into all other people's threads only to gather attention for themselves.

It was because something strange was happening when I uninstalled Internet Download Manager and no reply appeared at all on my threads!

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* Update *

- Added MAP03
- Added a new monster, replacing Baron of Hell. It's under test.
- Revenants now shoot slower rockets. (30 -> 25, same as plasma rifle in original doom)
- Fixed melee weapon sprite issue in PrBoom, tested in PrBoom+ v.2.5.1.3 with complevel 2
- Small modifications in MAP02

Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/95be1u81f4gi7h7/strg_03.zip

Screenshots

Spoiler


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Very solid map, I died a few times since I think the revenants fire two shots in a row now? Anyway yay for the akimbo pistols. Are you still doing a full megawad? I did a quick breeze through the wad and a few same midis play like 3 times :P

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SuperCupcakeTactics said:

Very solid map, I died a few times since I think the revenants fire two shots in a row now? Anyway yay for the akimbo pistols. Are you still doing a full megawad? I did a quick breeze through the wad and a few same midis play like 3 times :P


Some maps will share the same music, but it will be not much in the end. One thing I can guarantee is the boss levels, MAP32 and MAP30, will share the music as boss level theme.

About the revenant, it originally has twin rocket launchers on its shoulders. So I think that shooting two rockets in a row kinda makes sense for me. xD

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I finally got around to playing this. I wasn't sure I liked this until I got to MAP03. Very nice. Maybe it's the Hand graphic you used, but I got a real Rise of the Triad feel. Non-stop action and things are not what you expect. The faster monsters take some getting used to. I can't kill two Imps with one SSG shot anymore. They move too damn fast. The Ghost Caco surprised me. So did the Machinegun Arachnos. The only thing I absolutely hated was the double-shot Revenant missiles with the speed of Cyberdemon rockets. They're almost impossible to avoid because of the locations you normally find Revenants - hallways and rooms. You have to have more open space with a Cyber which gives you more room to maneuver. Oh, and you need to be careful placing your Arachnos. Since they fire bullets, they can kill each other now. The two you had in the same hallway (MAP02?) was really only one Arachno for that reason.

I like the faster Pistol and the Minigun-speed of the Dual Pistols. Those and the different ammo pickup amounts and maximums make gameplay very different. Before, my SSG was my preferred weapon. Now, it's the Dual Pistols. Firstly, you're much more likely to find bullets; secondly, you're much more likely to run out of Shotgun shells in the middle of a fight; and thirdly, the firing speed keeps the Revenants in a Pain state, so they can't shoot as often.

I like that you can see the area you need to get to, but have no obvious way to get there. Then, when you do get there through a different path, you can open a door or build exit stairs so you can get back there again easily. That's nicely
designed. Good use of paths next to paths at different heights.

Only found one bug. In MAP01, you have one Imp in a closet tagged as deaf, so he never teleported in (at linedef tag 25). I also kept getting lost in MAP02, but that's not really a bug.

Looking forward to more of this.

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EffinghamHuffnagel said:

I finally got around to playing this. I wasn't sure I liked this until I got to MAP03. Very nice. Maybe it's the Hand graphic you used, but I got a real Rise of the Triad feel. Non-stop action and things are not what you expect. The faster monsters take some getting used to. I can't kill two Imps with one SSG shot anymore. They move too damn fast. The Ghost Caco surprised me. So did the Machinegun Arachnos. The only thing I absolutely hated was the double-shot Revenant missiles with the speed of Cyberdemon rockets. They're almost impossible to avoid because of the locations you normally find Revenants - hallways and rooms. You have to have more open space with a Cyber which gives you more room to maneuver. Oh, and you need to be careful placing your Arachnos. Since they fire bullets, they can kill each other now. The two you had in the same hallway (MAP02?) was really only one Arachno for that reason.

I like the faster Pistol and the Minigun-speed of the Dual Pistols. Those and the different ammo pickup amounts and maximums make gameplay very different. Before, my SSG was my preferred weapon. Now, it's the Dual Pistols. Firstly, you're much more likely to find bullets; secondly, you're much more likely to run out of Shotgun shells in the middle of a fight; and thirdly, the firing speed keeps the Revenants in a Pain state, so they can't shoot as often.

I like that you can see the area you need to get to, but have no obvious way to get there. Then, when you do get there through a different path, you can open a door or build exit stairs so you can get back there again easily. That's nicely
designed. Good use of paths next to paths at different heights.

Only found one bug. In MAP01, you have one Imp in a closet tagged as deaf, so he never teleported in (at linedef tag 25). I also kept getting lost in MAP02, but that's not really a bug.

Looking forward to more of this.



I appreciate your feedback! I checked the MAP01 since it caused no trouble before, as you can see from my video walkthrough above, and there's a deaf imp. I wonder what changed it, but it will be no problem in the next release. Thanks for the notice. :)

I'll change the speed of revenant's rocket even though I already changed it before. As I mentioned from previous posts, I'm fine with anything as long as it doesn't have homing missiles. But since it was changed so suddenly from the original one, I understand lots of players don't like new fast direct rockets of revenant.

About further release, here are two screenshots of MAP04 I'm working on. I hope to finish it soon. Again, thanks for the feedback. :)

Spoiler


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