Jumping and Map Count

[Mechazawa]

Planning on disabling jumping in my maps, I much prefer the gameplay possibilities that come without the ability to jump than those that come with the ability to jump. While I have mostly designed my levels in such a way that jumping shouldn't break anything, jumping still might, so I planned to disable it. Mostly because nobody reads readme's and then when they break something because of jumping (or crouching) they will complain that the map is broken.

So my question is what do you folks think about jumping in doom? Design maps around it? Don't and disable? Don't and enable? Who cares what people think do what you want?

Next question is map count. I was thinking of doing 4-6 map mappacks. I am on level 3 now of my first pack. I didn't really want to do 1 map wads, and 32 maps would take too long. Probably with many style changes throughout as I developed my map making skill.

What is a good amount to maps to have? How many would you play? Do you play 32 map wads fully or do you prefer short episodic stuff? Who cares what people think do what you want?

[AD_79]

Personally, I don't play with jumping, unless it's something like The Adventures of Square where the maps are designed around being able to jump.

As for map count, make as many as you feel like making!

[Gentlepoke]

Ultimately make as many maps as you want, you can always bundle or spin off maps whenever you feel like it during the process.

[Memfis]

I'm a proponent of allowing as much stuff as possible. If the player wants to jump, let him do it. If he wants, he can decide on a no-jumping rule by himself. I think that's better than simply forbidding jumping and leaving no options to choose from. Just explain the intended ruleset in the readme (or even on the TITLEPIC if you want to make sure people see it). But don't ruin the fun for people that like to jump. That's the nicest solution imo.

[baja blast rd.]

The only problem with full 32-map sets is, as you said, they take a lot of time and energy -- "mapper wants to create an ambitious 32-map set, burns out even before the halfway point" is a pretty common story. "Mapper finishes the megawad, but it has a lot of filler and would clearly be better as a smaller mapset" is another not-unheard-of story. So it's good, for your sake, that you are starting off on something smaller.

As a player, I'd play a 100-map set if it's awesome and varied enough. 100 maps of Sunlust. Yes please. But I understand that mappers 1) are typically humans instead of robots, and 2) don't spend 100% of their non-eating, non-shitting time on Doom. So I'll take small and rare releases too, of course.

[scifista42]

The important thing to mention in regards to jumping is that jumping is only possible in modern source ports like ZDoom. So, if you wanted to design your maps with "vanilla / limit-removing / Boom compatibility", in order to be compatible with classic ports - for example PrBoom-plus, THE staple port for most demo-recorders and speedrunners (who don't use ZDoom because of compatibility issues), or even vanilla engine / Chocolate Doom - then definitely don't design your map to require jumping.

Disabling jumping in "vanilla / limit-removing / Boom" maps, to make them not "break" when the player plays them in a modern port with jumping, is a little controversial topic. Some mappers do it, in order to force the intended way of playing to everybody, and some don't do it, in order to not restrict freedom and comfort of players who chose to play in a modern port. In the latter case, simply stating that the map is "vanilla" or "limit-removing" or "Boom" compatible will make it clear that jumping is not intended to be allowed. (There are some maps that disregard this principle, and it can be annoying to even figure out the proper port and way to play them.)

[Phml]

I'm a proponent of allowing as much stuff as possible. If the player wants to jump, let him do it. If he wants, he can decide on a no-jumping rule by himself. I think that's better than simply forbidding jumping and leaving no options to choose from. Just explain the intended ruleset in the readme (or even on the TITLEPIC if you want to make sure people see it). But don't ruin the fun for people that like to jump. That's the nicest solution imo.

If wads were a black box, this would make sense, but considering it takes one minute to open Slade and delete the relevant line in a lump...

The way I see it, anyone smart enough to understand jumping might break the map and accept those consequences will also know how to force jumping on (or failing that, to come here to ask for help).

On the other hand, a more casual player who might not even be aware jumping isn't part of the original Doom could jump everywhere and ruin his own experience, even though he had no strong ideas either way and would have preferred to play a properly working map.

Sometimes live and let live actually removes options, as people aren't made aware other ways to play the game exist.

[Da Werecat]

rdwpa said:

But I understand that mappers 1) are typically humans instead of robots, and 2) don't spend 100% of their non-eating, non-shitting time on Doom.

I feel the need to point out that shitting time can be very productive if you spend it thinking.

scifista42 said:

Disabling jumping in "vanilla / limit-removing / Boom" maps, to make them not "break" when the player plays them in a modern port with jumping, is a little controversial topic.

I was reluctant to disable jumping and crouching in RC/DC, so I just made sure you can't break anything by jumping or crouching. However, that map has a rather basic layout, and if you're going for something more complex, it may not be possible. In this case I'd rather disable additional features, because this solution is easy and foolproof.

[Gez]

You can disallow jumping in ZDoom, but the player can always override it by going in the gameplay options menu and changing "allow jumping" from "default" to "on". (Same for crouching.)

Also there are ports other than ZDoom and family that let you jump. You can jump in Eternity or in Crispy Doom, for example, and these ports do not let you disallow jumping in MAPINFO.

[Mechazawa]

Thanks for the ideas so far.

I am building these maps for (g)zdoom (they may even be gzdoom only), as there is a lot of use of scripting and some zdoom only features. So, that answers the question of what port will be required.

It will only have 4 maps in the pack, and while most cases I have designed it so that jumping couldn't really break anything, as mentioned before I don't necessarily know if its completely safe with jumping. However, I am thinking I will leave it enabled and put a disclaimer for it in the readme.

[wallabra]

Let me know when it is ready!

[Dragonfly]

Your current stance seems most appropriate - design it to prevent jumping & crouching being an issue, with the intent of allowing players to use these features if they wish.

As a player, if I read anywhere that the map is Vanilla/Boom/no-jump, I still use ZDoom but disable jumping, crouching & mouse look to give it an authentic as-intended feel while taking advantage of the smaller features I like such as cross-hairs, etc.

As for map-count, I prefer episodic packs, sizing from 6-8 maps. I do occasionally blast my way through full megawads, but that's on the rare occasion I have the time. Most doomers are people with full time jobs, families and/or other commitments and might find it hard to donate the time required for 30+ levels.