If the smoke is what is bad, why do you hate E-cigarettes also?

[hardcore_gamer]

The single most common defense of smoking bans I hear from supporters of the nanny state is that even though they claim to support individual liberty, others have no right to blow smoke into their face. Which is possibly why E-cigarettes started growing in popularity which unlike normal smokes, doesn't generate smoke. And yet, this hasn't stopped people from trying to ban them anyway:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/outright-bans-free-for-alls-how-e-cigarettes-9422444

http://www.france24.com/en/20140925-france-wants-e-cig-ban-public-plain-cigarette-packs

So if it's the evil smoke that is the reason you don't tolerate others smoking, why are people also trying to ban smokes which selling point is to not generate smoke?

[pritch]

The smoking ban has been a blessing, but I don't have a problem with e-cigs.

[Breezeep]

Why are we still talking about this?

[hardcore_gamer]

Breezeep said:

Why are we still talking about this?

Because this issue is still relevant.

[AD_79]

Smoking is dumb and you should feel bad for doing so, I don't care what sort of cigs they are, you're a worse person for doing it. Congratulations, you're paying to have a shorter life!

[Gez]

E-cigarettes stink just as much as normal cigarettes, and the way they are advertised as being totally harmless is disturbing -- they are probably less harmful than traditional cigarettes (less tar and so on) but that's not the same thing as not harmful at all. So the idea is that people who are already smokers should switch to e-cigs if they can't manage to quit; but e-cigs shouldn't be advertised to non-smokers.

[Chezza]

I'm pro gradual ban of cigarettes but it needs to be a slow process and not overly intrude on current smokers considering it's an addiction. I'm from Australia, we are essentially a nanny state and we have lots of laws that piss me off. However anti-smoking efforts are welcomed. I don't smoke but surrounded by enough smokers to breath in plenty of passive smoke to take a few years off my life.

E-Cigarettes are a good step to take on that process of weakening smoker numbers. If anything it needs to be more popular among smokers.

Why do people initially take up smoking? Usually the answer revolves around ignorance, weakness to peer pressure and a stupid solution to stress so I don't have much sympathy for smokers. Especially since smoke is neither delicious or creates an enjoyable buzz for first timers. It makes more sense to pick up drinking, although that's a massive issue in itself. I fantasize one day it will require a smoking license to purchase cigarettes where it will further put people off initially picking up smoking while allowing the current smokers to have their fill (I can be quite nanny state sometimes).

[Zed]

AD_79 said:

Smoking is dumb and you should feel bad for doing so, I don't care what sort of cigs they are, you're a worse person for doing it. Congratulations, you're paying to have a shorter life!

I smoke cigarettes, and I know it's a bad/disgusting habit, and I'm actually in favor of the smoking bans.

That said, your comment seems a bit arrogant to me.

[RUSH]

Not sure about E Cigarettes but I've smoked these disposable vapor ones before where you just chuck them after use. They had zero smell and were smoked indoors with no lingering scent. Pretty cool actually. Never seen the point in E Cigarettes though. Supposedly healthier than traditional cigarettes?

[Annunakitty]

My grandfather just died of lung cancer and had stopped smoking more than 30 years ago. I doubt it would have mattered if he were smoking e-cigs or sucking on cigars, it's still carcinogenic poison. I'm not really pro- banning of anything that people do to themselves, but it's fucking rude to subject others to your own death wish. If the government has to force you to not be an asshole, I guess it's kind of a self evident necessity after all.

[AD_79]

Zed said:

I smoke cigarettes, and I know it's a bad/disgusting habit, and I'm actually in favor of the smoking bans.

That said, your comment seems a bit arrogant to me.

Eh I suppose it is, I just completely hate the idea of smoking.

[GreyGhost]

Chezza said:

E-Cigarettes are a good step to take on that process of weakening smoker numbers.

Meh - e-cigarettes are just another way to sell the tobacco industry's drug of choice - nicotine. Vaping should be somewhat safer than smoking, since you're inhaling fewer carcinogens, but I think there's still scope to regulate the availability and usage of e-cigarettes, if only to curb big tobacco's practice of pushing their addictive product onto younger generations as the older addicts die out.

BTW - I quit smoking nearly 20 years ago following a heart attack.

[Mr. Freeze]

vaping is totes safe guize

Sick of you morons and your cotton candy mouth fedoras. Die.

[Marcaek]

Sick of you morons and your cotton candy mouth fedoras. Die.

i'd tell you to go kill yourself, but only cowards do that huh

[Jaxxoon R]

You wear fedoras on your head, not in your mouth.

[printz]

Gez said:

E-cigarettes stink just as much as normal cigarettes,

They do? I didn't notice anything when someone was vaping near me.

[Clonehunter]

Mr. Freeze said:

vaping is totes safe guize

Sick of you morons and your cotton candy mouth fedoras. Die.

[Tarnsman]

AD_79 said:

Smoking is dumb and you should feel bad for doing so, I don't care what sort of cigs they are, you're a worse person for doing it. Congratulations, you're paying to have a shorter life!

To be fair, so is drinking, every single recreational drug, a good chunk of the food we eat, playing video games all day long, and generally most of modern society that is offset by our advances in medical care.

[scifista42]

^ The food at least keeps us alive. The games at least potentially improve our skills and stimulate intelect. Drinking in sane amounts may not be harmful at all. Smoking has no benefits and is harmful. Also the fact that smoke can be breathed by people near you who might not like it is kind of an important fact.

[Memfis]

No benefits? It helps to calm down and relax, it can be a very important "spiritual activity", it can be a good way to socialize (i.e. cigarette breaks), some people also look very cool when they smoke.

[Arctangent]

Memfis said:

It helps to calm down and relax,

Actually, that's pretty much just a placebo effect. The act of smoking can calm people down if they've made it something that calms them down, but nicotine is a stimulant, causing the body to react in a way as if it's being excited. Which basically means they do the exact opposite to people who haven't already gotten stuck in that mindset ... provided it even actually works that way for most people in that mindset.

[Scet]

printz said:

They do? I didn't notice anything when someone was vaping near me.

Either your nose is broken or you haven't encountered someone using one of those giant mod vaporizers with their super strong cotton candy mint cake e-juice. It's like being next to someone that chews gum with their month open, just without the disgusting chewing noises.

I know I used to have one of those contraptions. Vaping was supposed to be a way to help smokers gradually reduce their nicotine consumption till it hit zero. Instead what happens is that you start with the little disposables, then move up to the refillables until you get the massive multiple setting mods. Some people even start soldering together their own equipment. Also during this phase I kept buying stronger and stronger nicotine e-juice, the liquid used for refills, constantly buzzed because vapor is "harmless". How is inhaling glycerine and chemical food additives harmless? I'm sure it's better than burnt plants and paper, but it's not 100% safe.

GreyGhost said:

if only to curb big tobacco's practice of pushing their addictive product onto younger generations

Most of the corner store disposables are made by big tobacco.

[scifista42]

Damn it I remembered this thread with the same thread starter and similar arguments inside.

[Tarnsman]

scifista42 said:

^ The food at least keeps us alive.

The double baconnator kindly disputes that

[j4rio]

scifista42 said:

Smoking has no benefits and is harmful.

Nicotine locally suppresses tumor necrotizing factor, which makes it actually a viable symptomatic treatment of chronic aphtous stomatitis. It's the only drug I'm aware of that works on me.

With that said, smoking is shit, because the harmful effect is completely avoidable. Look for nicotine gums, sprays or patches. Maintains the nicotine buzz, side-effect free.

[scifista42]

j4rio said:

Nicotine locally suppresses tumor necrotizing factor, which makes it actually a viable symptomatic treatment of chronic aphtous stomatitis.

You know, this problem doesn't affect (or concern) most smokers.

[j4rio]

It's very common debilitating oral disease and it actually doesn't affect smokers at all, so long as they keep smoking. Due to the regular nicotine intake many people don't even realise they are affected with it, because they are simultaneously treating it. It will, however, affect many quitters of smoking.

[Doomkid]

Rules and regulations are good. For example increased cigarette taxes here in Australia, while a bit overboard, serves to pay for any cancer patients who might be there as a result of smoking. If people are willing to pay over a dollar a cigarette, all that excess is used for taxation. It's really the best system, though I think even then it's a bit fucking steep. (~$26.00 for a 25 pack.)

Bans are bad news. This has been proven with multiple drugs/substances over the course of modern history. It's really just a matter of doing your research before piping up about what should and shouldn't "be banned". It's a can of worms.

My freedoms don't end where your feelings begin. As a massive advocate of marijuana legalization I stand firmly by that stance. What I down in the privacy of my own home or in the company of friends/family frankly isn't any of your fucking business and the same should apply for essentially all substance use.

If we're gonna talk about banning stuff because it's unhealthy, get prepared to do nothing with your life but work out, eat properly balanced meals every day never exceeding 2,500 calories, and you better believe you won't be gaming for more than a MAX of 30 minutes per day due to eye strain and possible posture issues, not to mention the "up in the air" psychological effects. However, if you value freedom, if you place ANY value on personal liberty, don't go around calling for bans. As previously stated they almost never work as intended.

Gez said:

E-cigarettes stink just as much as normal cigarettes, and the way they are advertised as being totally harmless is disturbing -- they are probably less harmful than traditional cigarettes (less tar and so on) but that's not the same thing as not harmful at all.

Now this I completely agree with.

[Clonehunter]

Memfis said:

some people also look very cool when they smoke.

They look even cooler when they're done

scifista42 said:

Damn it I remembered this thread with the same thread starter and similar arguments inside.

Then we really are in another quality Hardcore_Gamer thread gone in just the right direction

Doomkid said:

If we're gonna talk about banning stuff because it's unhealthy, get prepared to do nothing with your life but work out, eat properly balanced meals every day never exceeding 2,500 calories, and you better believe you won't be gaming for more than a MAX of 30 minutes per day due to eye strain and possible posture issues, not to mention the "up in the air" psychological effects. However, if you value freedom, if you place ANY value on personal liberty, don't go around calling for bans. As previously stated they almost never work as intended.

But... But, look how nice the future in Demolition Man looks!

[Doomkid]

Clonehunter said:

They look even cooler when they're done

The effects of smoking are awful. Quitting was a smart decision, though I was never a heavy smoker - a pack lasted me a week back when I did.

But, are you honestly suggesting that they should not have the freedom to do with their life as they please? I mean I get not smoking on a fucking train or a public area or whatever, but I just want to clarify that you're not calling for even further restriction of personal freedoms. So many have already been stripped away in the wake of 9/11, we shouldn't be trying to speed up the process even further. I just want to know where everyone stands on this particular portion of the issue..