If the smoke is what is bad, why do you hate E-cigarettes also?

[Clonehunter]

If it is, as you said, done within certain confines and not in public, that really isn't any different than doing anything else in certain confines and not in public. I was just pointing out that bit of absurdity in Memfis' remark. Otherwise, I rarely honestly suggest anything but sarcastic snippets that do not move forward (or force backwards) a conversation in any way.

Well, maybe I regress things into stupid shitposts that are poor sarcastic bites at different posts, but lets ignore those. I'm not very good at such things.

[Arctangent]

Doomkid said:

My freedoms don't end where your feelings begin. As a massive advocate of marijuana legalization I stand firmly by that stance. What I down in the privacy of my own home or in the company of friends/family frankly isn't any of your fucking business and the same should apply for essentially all substance use.

The easiest way to solve the problems raised in this argument is to ban cigarette smoking in public areas and allow property owners to press charges against people who smoke on their property. Not that they would have to, if they decide to allow smoking, but also it'd be preferable for businesses that allow smoking to mark themselves as such so people with breathing issues don't have potentially lethal attacks.

[Doomkid]

A completely reasonable take on the matter. (Also re-reading my post it kinda looks like I was singling Clonehunter out, which definitely wasn't my intention)

Arctangent said:

it'd be preferable for businesses that allow smoking to mark themselves as such so people with breathing issues don't have potentially lethal attacks.

I'd go one step further as to legislate that. (Though, I think it already is in the US... Is that correct?)

In Australia (or at least in ACT) we have the absurd law that smoking sections have to be outdoors AND have to be segregated from the outdoor drinking area. Not a big deal at a restaurant or whatever, but a massive kick in the nuts to already struggling gig venues and pubs where musicians/rock/metal bands play. Like, it's literally a criminal act to have a beer and a cigarette in the same place when at a gig venue. You have to have your beer, walk 2-3 meters over to the "smoker square", have your cigarette, then walk back over the the outdoor "beer zone".

Having a smoking section in the outdoor bit of your pub makes perfect sense, but to not be able to bring a beer into that zone is just massively retarded.

[DeltaValkyrie]

Doomkid said:

A completely reasonable take on the matter. (Also re-reading my post it kinda looks like I was singling Clonehunter out, which definitely wasn't my intention)


I'd go one step further as to legislate that. (Though, I think it already is in the US... Is that correct?)

In Australia (or at least in ACT) we have the absurd law that smoking sections have to be outdoors AND have to be segregated from the outdoor drinking area. Not a big deal at a restaurant or whatever, but a massive kick in the nuts to already struggling gig venues and pubs where musicians/rock/metal bands play. Like, it's literally a criminal act to have a beer and a cigarette in the same place when at a gig venue. You have to have your beer, walk 2-3 meters over to the "smoker square", have your cigarette, then walk back over the the outdoor "beer zone".

Having a smoking section in the outdoor bit of your pub makes perfect sense, but to not be able to bring a beer into that zone is just massively retarded.

I find that is quite silly and it's the same in NSW xD

But to be honest with you I really believe that smoking should be phased out ASAP...

Tobacco based cigarettes don't offer ANY health benefits whatsoever and are essentially a drug that becomes a habit you find it hard to break.

E-cigarettes are still new so its hard to say if they are really a "better" alternative, remember that around the 1930's, cigarettes were highly recommended as a health benefit only to have that turned around completely in modern times as a menace to your health.

We really don't have enough research on E-cigarettes to make a good judgement call as of yet. Until we get proof E-cigarettes are safe I am going to remain sceptical on them.

[Inkie]

Smoking is too damn expensive

[DeltaValkyrie]

Inkie said:

Smoking is too damn expensive

Reason would be you pay tax on them. Essentially when you DO get lung cancer, you have already paid for it (the operation) in advance lol...

[dew]

DeltaValkyrie said:

Essentially when you DO get lung cancer, you have already paid for it (the operation) in advance lol...

I somewhat doubt that. Modern medicine is expensive, especially medication. The part in which they cut the cancerdemon out of your body is probably a minor part of the overall bill.

[Graf Zahl]

Doomkid said:

In Australia (or at least in ACT) we have the absurd law that smoking sections have to be outdoors AND have to be segregated from the outdoor drinking area. Not a big deal at a restaurant or whatever, but a massive kick in the nuts to already struggling gig venues and pubs where musicians/rock/metal bands play. Like, it's literally a criminal act to have a beer and a cigarette in the same place when at a gig venue. You have to have your beer, walk 2-3 meters over to the "smoker square", have your cigarette, then walk back over the the outdoor "beer zone".

One can discuss the merit of overly strict smoking bans indefinitely, but I think the main point here is not to ban smoking but to point out smoking as something that's uncool and makes you an outcast.

And frankly, with that I fully agree. It's by far the most efficent way to keep young people off cigarettes - even though it may take another generation to truly reduce the amount of smokers.

[Doomkid]

DeltaValkyrie said:

Tobacco based cigarettes don't offer ANY health benefits whatsoever and are essentially a drug that becomes a habit you find it hard to break.

Same can be said about McDonalds and Liquor, but that doesn't mean they should be made illegal. Touted as unhealthy and unwise? Definitely, they are all unhealthy and wise. People should be free to do unhealthy things if they choose, as long as it doesn't harm others, which I why I understand banning smoking in public, but any sort of outright bans are just absurd and further reduce personal freedoms. I hate this expression, but that's a slippery slope.

DeltaValkyrie said:

Until we get proof E-cigarettes are safe I am going to remain sceptical on them.

We have irrefutable evidence that they are unsafe, but again, that's not a good reason to ban something.

DeltaValkyrie said:

Reason would be you pay tax on them. Essentially when you DO get lung cancer, you have already paid for it (the operation) in advance lol...

This is definitely the logic behind it, that's why I'm not too upset about them being taxed so hard. It's the kind of thing that should be taxed, not banned. That's really the key issue here.

dew said:

I somewhat doubt that. Modern medicine is expensive, especially medication. The part in which they cut the cancerdemon out of your body is probably a minor part of the overall bill.

The point still remains that like 2/3rds of that $20 per pack of cigarettes is actually taxation money. For the average smoker, that becomes thousands and thousands of dollars over the course of just one year. Considering roughly 10% of smokers usually get/die from cancer, the other ~90%'s cigarette tax dollars have still gone into the healthcare budget, and not just specifically for cancer surgery. Naturally it's imperfect (as is everything) but it's a far more elegant and sensible solution that what you see in most other countries.

[GreyGhost]

While hefty tobacco taxes go some way towards covering the health-related costs of smoking, that state of affairs tends to bring to mind the following exchange from "Yes, Prime Minister" -

Jim Hacker: "Humphrey, we are talking about 100,000 deaths a year."

Sir Humphrey: "Yes, but cigarette taxes pay for a third of the cost of the National Health Service. We are saving many more lives than we otherwise could because of those smokers who voluntary lay down their lives for their friends. Smokers are national benefactors."

[SYS]

Where I am Vaping is under all the same restrictions as smoking. I'm fine with people having to vape outside beside the analog cigarette smokers. If you're really determined to be that person that needs to Tobacco indoors or in public places you're left with Chew or Snuff. Seeing someone chew and spitting it out into a container is really gross. As for snuff, people might mistake you for a cokehead as you're casually snorting it in front of everyone.

[SavageCorona]

scifista42 said:

Damn it I remembered this thread with the same thread starter and similar arguments inside.

Look, the exact same thread!

[40oz]

Who is this thread directed to? How many congress doomers do we have in here?

[hardcore_gamer]

Inkie said:

Smoking is too damn expensive

Speaking of high costs, I can't help but admire the sheer balls of people who raise the costs of smokes or booze and then cite high costs as a reason for why you should stop.

[Breezeep]

This thread should have been over a few days ago.

[SavageCorona]

It was closed 2 months ago.

[dew]

hardcore_gamer said:

Speaking of high costs, I can't help but admire the sheer balls of people who raise the costs of smokes or booze and then cite high costs as a reason for why you should stop.

This just in: hardcore_gamer expresses utmost respect to leftist nanny staters. Freemen on the land everywhere pained by the shock move.

[Sinner]

Anyone see th antismoking commercial with the toxic demons coming out of the woods? Reminded me of doom.

[Doomkid]

40oz said:

Who is this thread directed to? How many congress doomers do we have in here?

*raises hand*

[DeltaValkyrie]

At least this thread is on topic... unlike my one which went to hell lol!

[Marcaek]

A single thread you made was helled, nobody cares, don't be a dweeb about it.

[Clonehunter]

This thread should take the turn as to whether or not prostitution should be fully legalized in Schools or not

[DeltaValkyrie]

Marcaek said:

A single thread you made was helled, nobody cares, don't be a dweeb about it.

I care therefore nobody is incorrect.

Also can be as dweeb as I want to!

(Rants endlessly)

But I still stand on the fact that tobacco does more harm than good. Unlike Maccas which is not addictive to the same degree tobacco is.

[GreyGhost]

DeltaValkyrie said:

Also can be as dweeb as I want to!

(Rants endlessly)

You can - until the forum management tire of that behavior and choose to do something about it, which brings us back to that length of rope I mentioned in another thread.

[Doomkid]

Clonehunter said:

This thread should take the turn as to whether or not prostitution should be fully legalized in Schools or not

Or the fact that Doomworld needs a Multiplayer sec-

*shot and killed*

[DeltaValkyrie]

GreyGhost said:

You can - until the forum management tire of that behavior and choose to do something about it, which brings us back to that length of rope I mentioned in another thread.

Haha I wouldn't take it that far... just plain bored xD

Though I wonder how long the rope is at the moment...

[SavageCorona]

Doomkid said:

Or the fact that Doomworld needs a Multiplayer sec-

*shot and killed*

Or that this thread is going to turn into shameless self-plugging of forum suggestions.

[Kontra Kommando]

My general practitioner suggested that I should use E-cigarettes to wean myself off of smoking. I asked him what he risks of e-cigs were; he said it was still harmful, but less than regular cigarettes.

Though, I only tend to smoke cigarettes if I'm drinking. I can manage to resist under normal circumstances.

[Springy]

printz said:

They do? I didn't notice anything when someone was vaping near me.

Yeah, they do. I suppose it depends what sort of liquid you use. I noticed it more with the flavoured shit. As for the smoking ban, that was the best thing to happen in Britland, and that's coming from a smoker. Not so sure about E-cigs being banned in public places, though, as they only generate vapour, as far as I know.

[Cupboard]

Vape the marijuanas. It is efficient, clean, cough-free, minty, and obviously awesome when combined with psychedelics. Uhhh. Cigarettes are cool if they are free or a means of exchange between two people. That's about it. I would never buy cigarettes. Might as well buy tobacco and roll your own spliffs.