Unpopular Wad opinions.

[Da Werecat]

Tritnew said:

Though, I give Plutonia 2 credit for some of the awesome music and the badass Icon of Sin:

https://i.imgur.com/0czz8D5.png

The lower part looks like legs in a split.

No, you won't be able to unsee it.

[Tritnew]

Da Werecat said:

The lower part looks like legs in a split.

Of course.

[mrthejoshmon]

- TNT > Plutonia, Plutonia is not fun to me and just gets tedious because of how dickish the author was (it is a big game of "how is this arsehole gonna fuck me over now", which is not fun).

- Gamarra shit is the best worst wads, I ironically love the shit out of them.

- Brutal Hexen makes a hell of a lot more sense than Brutal Doom.

- I really dislike Alien Vendetta, it hates me and I hate it.

- I don't care about HR2, BTSX, Plutonia 2, KDiZD, SiD (and so forth). I know they are supposed to be "great" but I actually want to play Maximum Doom/D!Zone maps more than that what is "great".

- D2INO was fun.

- I always use PSX soundtracks to play maps without custom music.

[nxGangrel]

I didn't really like Doom the way id did. Both 1 and 2. I don't think I liked Doom 2 in name only either, but I don't remember.

[Tritnew]

mrthejoshmon said:

- TNT > Plutonia, Plutonia is not fun to me and just gets tedious because of how dickish the author was (it is a big game of "how is this arsehole gonna fuck me over now", which is not fun).

- Brutal Hexen makes a hell of a lot more sense than Brutal Doom.

I agree.

[Gifty]

Not a big fan of any wad where the SSG becomes the main weapon. I actually tend to prefer Ultimate Doom mapsets altogether since they have better texture selection.

(I'm cool with Scythe, though, Scythe is great)

[molten_]

ultimate doom is still the best mapset ever made for doom, nothing has come close

that's not to say that I think everything is shit, if that were the case I wouldn't still be playing doom


but the original is still king

also doom 2 sucks

[PsychoGoatee]

molten_ said:

ultimate doom is still the best mapset ever made for doom, nothing has come close

that's not to say that I think everything is shit, if that were the case I wouldn't still be playing doom


but the original is still king

also doom 2 sucks

To do a critique within a critique, I think the original Doom is the strongest cohesive set of levels overall, more so than Ultimate Doom. I look at Thy Flesh Consumed as it's own thing, and it is good no doubt. Just not quite as good as the original Doom in my book.

Personally I dig a lot of Doom 2, but not every level. Still a game with some great levels.

[Tritnew]

PsychoGoatee said:

Personally I dig a lot of Doom 2, but not every level. Still a game with some great levels.

I do too, but most of Sandy Petersen's levels are... Just awful, I think Downdown has to be his best, I like most of American Mcgee's work too.

[Phobus]

I've surprised myself by really not liking what I will call "the modern megawad". I simply lost interest a bit of the way into BtSX E1, Going Down and Valiant and have since basically gone off Doom. I've never liked Slaughter maps either, which can't help in the modern climate. I don't think I've even considered checking out most major releases in the last few years as a result - I've instead really gotten into gaming. In fact, modern gaming has turned out to be a bit of a revelation for me.

I found both Suspended in Dusk and Back to Basics very dull to play, even if the interconnection in the layouts did inspire and influence my mapping a bit. Sounds like my notion of "mainstream opinion" on this forum may have been off though, as I seem to be far from the only one expressing these kinds of opinion.

By the way, yes, I do see the irony in my first post in at least a week or so being me telling you that I'm not interested in being here.

[Gifty]

Phobus said:

I've surprised myself by really not liking what I will call "the modern megawad". I simply lost interest a bit of the way into BtSX E1, Going Down and Valiant and have since basically gone off Doom. I've never liked Slaughter maps either, which can't help in the modern climate. I don't think I've even considered checking out most major releases in the last few years as a result - I've instead really gotten into gaming. In fact, modern gaming has turned out to be a bit of a revelation for me.

Not to pick on anyone or their work, but continuing with this sentiment, I do think it's really ironic that one of the big echo chamber opinions in the Doom community is "rarrrr, modern shooters are all about visuals! We want gameplay and design!" when a lot of the modern megawads are all about baroque detail at the expense of gameplay and design. I think it's easy to see where game developers go wrong, but it's also very easy to make the same mistakes when designing your own content.

[Da Werecat]

Gifty said:

Not to pick on anyone or their work, but continuing with this sentiment, I do think it's really ironic that one of the big echo chamber opinions in the Doom community is "rarrrr, modern shooters are all about visuals! We want gameplay and design!" when a lot of the modern megawads are all about baroque detail at the expense of gameplay and design.

This would sound plausible in the 00s, but not now, sorry.

[vdgg]

I detest Eternal Doom soundtrack. And it's not about the tunes being too short. It's about them using the same basic chord progressions.

[Doomkid]

scifista42 said:

I don't like any of 90s classic megawads. Actually, all megawads from 90s and early 00s suck at least in one way or another (even though some of them are mostly pretty good). As I see it, the historically first megawad that doesn't suck is Plutonia 2 (from 2008). More ones that don't suck include Speed of Doom, Jenesis, Base Ganymede, Unholy Realms (?) (? because I remember little of it), BTSX, Going Down, Valiant, Sunlust and NOVA II. Thankfully they seem to be more and more frequent nowadays.

My opinion is polar opposite to yours. (Though, I would certainly never use the word "sucks" to describe art like Jenesis, SOD, etc etc...) I just feel they can be a little removed from classic Doom in the exact way that most 90's megawads feel damn near to IWAD maps. EDIT: Wtf, Scythe II from 2005 doesn't make your list?!

Some people are tired of the IWAD style and crave something fresh. The modern megawads you listed are for them. For those of us who can't escape the clutches of 90's Doom... I'll take Momento Mori, thanks :)

Tritnew said:

I do too, but most of Sandy Petersen's levels are... Just awful

YO, TRITNEW, I'M REALLY HAPPY FOR YOU AND IMMA LET YOU FINISH, BUT ENTRYWAY IS ONE OF THE BEST DEATHMATCH MAPS OF ALL TIME! ONE OF THE BEST OF ALL TIME!

(hopes youngns get the joke)

[scifista42]

Da Werecat said:

This would sound plausible in the 00s, but not now, sorry.

Very well said. Actual modern megawads that aim for high quality are typically getting excessive playtesting treatment focusing on gameplay and even design. Then even in public beta stage, a lot of things get tweaked for the sake of goodness of those. Obviously much more attention and care is put to them than to visuals.

Doomkid said:

EDIT: Wtf, Scythe II from 2005 doesn't make your list?!

I don't like its frustrating difficulty spikes, and the new monsters were annoying to fight. Those are flaws in my view.

[Doomkid]

I once read a review somewhere in the depths of /idgames while browsing in the wee hours of the morning.. It really resonated with me as a Doomer, and it went something like this:

In the pursuit of streamlining the WADding process further and further over the years, some sort of magic has been lost along the way, replaced with a more sterile and formulaic approach, for better or for worse. This appeals to some, and some prefer the beautiful little oddities that come from a passionate mapper who maybe doesn't have the technical grasp that we have today. "Poor mapping decisions" are currently touted as an objective thing, however blooming mappers must remember that this is not the case, and what appeals to some will inherently not appeal to others. Do not be afraid to break the mold and experiment, do not be afraid to go against the grain of the current standard.

Of course this isn't a direct quote, but in essence it is the same. Now of course we shouldn't go telling newbie mappers to throw random textures all over the place for the sake of being different, but I often find myself facepalming at opinions being touted as facts when newbie mappers are being critiqued. "These imps would be better placed here, add a monster closet there" can be just as harmful as beneficial, as we end up with far too much that feels "samey" in the gameplay department.

Curse you, human psychology, for being so damn overly complex!

EDIT: My opinion is much the same regarding many Deathmatch levels.

[SavageCorona]

I think that E4M2 trumps every single map ever made.

[Captain Ventris]

Da Werecat said:

The lower part looks like legs in a split.

No, you won't be able to unsee it.

I feel like the giant, scary eyeless horned head wobbling around on such teeny cartoon legs should be a boss in Golden Souls 2.

[mrthejoshmon]

I just played it and I think EARTH.wad is fucking garbage. It is ugly as fuck, has gameplay like leaky anus has unfitting music that makes no damn sense being in the monster filled corridors of ASHWALL.

Fight me.

[PsychoGoatee]

mrthejoshmon said:

Fight me.

It's a safe place in here, nobody is fighting. Probably. B)

[baja blast rd.]

AnonimVio said:

I don't like Valiant, I prefer Skillsaw's older wads.

Not an unpopular opinion, but I think Skillsaw's stuff would be better in general with significantly less health (and less ammo too). I guess player empowerment isn't my thing -- I like to be punished.

[molten_]

SavageCorona said:

I think that E4M2 trumps every single map ever made.

my man

[Gifty]

SavageCorona said:

I think that E4M2 trumps every single map ever made.

I'm down with that!

[Varis Alpha]

TheMionicDonut said:

Super Sonic Doom was an enjoyable experience in 2005. Certain sources say it is one of the worst wads ever.

i can agree with this. with it being one of the first ZDoom wads i played, i was pretty blown away by it. but it hasn't aged well at all, and certain scripts are starting to break. i still really damn love the thing though, despite all its flaws.

i also like more exploratory levels than just giant gauntlets of running and gunning, myself. Talosian Incident is one of my favorite mods because it's not very focused on difficult fights, but more on the atmosphere, and that thing is pretty damn drenched in it. that, and Cygnus IV, its predecessor pretty much, and to jump ahead a bit, Grove is pretty fantastic, too. questionable level-design choices aside, i feel as if more exploratory levels with focus on atmosphere over gameplay can't hurt.

[Tritnew]

Doomkid said:

YO, TRITNEW, I'M REALLY HAPPY FOR YOU AND IMMA LET YOU FINISH, BUT ENTRYWAY IS ONE OF THE BEST DEATHMATCH MAPS OF ALL TIME! ONE OF THE BEST OF ALL TIME!

TOTALLY, 10/10 (I honestly feel It's overrated, but It's still great fun to play It on DM).

[SavageCorona]

Sandy didn't do any good work until he started making Quake maps.

Actually E3M6 was top notch but that's about it tbh off the top of my head at least. I'm not really familiar with exactly who made every map in Doom but I know that's one of his good maps. His use of FIREBLU pleases me.

[Steve D]

Yep, Mt. Erebus is one of the Sandy maps I like a lot.

[Pirx]

for me it was the new monsters and the super chaingun which made valiant even better. i wrote somewhere else, strain's red demons that don't go down in 1 ssg blast pissed me off, because they're an enemy which is mostly dangerous for standing in the way. valiant's demon on the other hand doesn't have more health, it just bites quicker.

vs

what i found tiring in valiant was the constant sniper barrage with all those fast projectiles incoming at any moment.

however, i don't care much for doom with modern fps gameplay, like iron sights and reloading. it just makes the game slower.

also, concerning modern vs classic wads: classic wads mostly gave the player a slow start, where he could get some weapons before running into monsters. modern wads have this tendency for running starts, where new monsters pop up wherever you go trying to get a bit of ammo. i find this often more difficult than slaughterwads which at least throw weapons and ammo at you. once i know the map i can keep going, but the start often results in getting dogpiled over and over.

and speaking of btsx, both episodes had some huge maps with everything looking the same where i could't figure out where the hell i was.

[Gifty]

SavageCorona said:

Sandy didn't do any good work until he started making Quake maps.

Actually E3M6 was top notch but that's about it tbh off the top of my head at least. I'm not really familiar with exactly who made every map in Doom but I know that's one of his good maps. His use of FIREBLU pleases me.

I think his Ultimate Doom stuff in general was much better, because it seemed like he had time to actually polish the look and flow of the maps a little instead of just vomiting random stuff to make a deadline. Containment Area in particular I think is a really good exploration-based map where his various disparate ideas all congeal into a fun layout, and e3m6 is probably the clearest and most elegant Sandy map there is.

[sincity2100]

Memento Mori is the most overrated Megawad I've ever played.

There are some good maps in it,but the bad maps is what sticks in my mind (12,16,20,25,27,28) yes map28 , this map was so torture to play yet most of the gamers like this map for a reason , when I'm tired of playing a megawad I don't want to stuck in a huge switch hunt City maze map, I reached a point where I wanted to throw the game to the recycle bin for making me angry.

It made me really dislike Memento Mori so much