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antares031

What defines slaughter map?

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Let's say we have two maps.

First one has five thousand monsters, but it also has hundreds(nearly a thousand) of rooms & corridors and arenas, making you to encounter around ten monsters in each battles. And the second one has one thousand monsters, and it only has one giant arena. It has less monsters than the first one, but it offers you a single massacre.

Personally, I want to call the second one Monster Infighting Simulator.

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This question was posed in an episode of Doom Radio more than 2 years ago(!): http://doomradio.org/podcast/program-b-episode-9/. I can't remember the details of what was discussed or if we came to a conclusion, but certainly we agreed that it has more to do with the relationship between monster count and the type of architecture which must necessarily accommodate them. Your first example can probably be better described as an epic base-crawler... or something.

It might be worth re-running that topic for another episode with a guest speaker, someone prolific in the slaughtermap department. It's broad enough and niche enough a genre of mapping that someone from the outside mightn't have the depth of insight that a regular can provide. Unless you're strictly a speedrunner, I'd guess that most people who play slaughtermaps before any other type also design maps for it with comparable enthusiasm.

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Encountering 10 monsters in each battle is not a slaughter. I'd set the borderline lowest amount to 20-30.

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Alfonzo said:

This question was posed in an episode of Doom Radio more than 2 years ago(!): http://doomradio.org/podcast/program-b-episode-9/. I can't remember the details of what was discussed or if we came to a conclusion, but certainly we agreed that it has more to do with the relationship between monster count and the type of architecture which must necessarily accommodate them. Your first example can probably be better described as an epic base-crawler... or something.

It might be worth re-running that topic for another episode with a guest speaker, someone prolific in the slaughtermap department. It's broad enough and niche enough a genre of mapping that someone from the outside mightn't have the depth of insight that a regular can provide. Unless you're strictly a speedrunner, I'd guess that most people who play slaughtermaps before any other type also design maps for it with comparable enthusiasm.


Thanks for the Radio link! I agree that, in the end, the "density" will do a major role to define a slaughter map. If you guys are gonna discuss about this topic again, please let me know so I can listen. :)


scifista42 said:

Encountering 10 monsters in each battle is not a slaughter. I'd set the borderline lowest amount to 20-30.


My borderline is also around 30 per arena, but it's for mid-tier monsters, such as Hell Knight. For low-tier monsters like imps, it will be around 5-60 since they're easier to kill than higher classes.

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For me, minimum 400 mobs (or 10+ cyberdemons), rocket launcher and/or bfg (sometimes plasma, though it's a little weak for multiple mid-tier mobs) are mainstays of the map, and situations where you must move constantly or near constantly to not get plastered with projectiles.

As far as that doom radio interview, I'll throw my hat out, though I haven't been too involved in doom the last year or two.

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When all sense of story, theme and place is thrown out the door, and Doom focuses on being a game, rather than an immersive experience.

I'm fine with killing hundreds of demons...if they "fit" and dont feel copypasted. I played through GRAYTALL recently, and was absolutely disgusted by Map 9 and Map 11. Both of them ruined the wad's theme by having huge random blocks of monsters just dumped everywhere, where its clear the authour only focused on the combat aspect. If I want to kill thick blocks of thousands of dudes for the sake of it, I'll go play Serious Sam.

On the other hand, Mouldy's map from that wad was great, it still had ridiculous hordes of everything, but it felt natural, more immersive and real. I also enjoyed Timeofdeath's map, and Ribbik's one wasn't bad either.

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Scythe 2 displays a perfect borderline between 'standard map' and 'slaughter map'. The transition from Map22 to Map23 is the borderline I am outlining here. Map23 becomes far more reliant on the BFG.

I think most of the defining points have already been said, but for clarity:

  • Complete reliance on the use of more powerful weapons, such as BFG9000 & Rocket Launcher.
  • Larger scale levels which contain far more movement space. These levels are often accompanies with far more 'bulky' architecture, which allows for larger 'un-detailed' spaced still looking good and being playable.
  • High monster counts. There is no specific number to measure this. I would personally consider the number to be relative to the size of the map itself. For example, a map that without monsters would still take 10 minutes to traverse, collect keys & find the exit would need an extreme (1000-2000+) monster count, whereas a map that features far less travel distance, such as an arena, doesn't need as high of a mob count to still be a slaughtermap.
  • "If you stop moving you'll be bombarded with projectiles & die instantly" - This is a perfect definition for a slaughter-type encounter. I suppose a 'slaughtermap' means a map full of these encounters.
While not part of what defines a slaughtermap, common tropes of a slaughtermap include:-
  • Far less emphasis on story
  • Little to no puzzles
  • Hell themed

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Dragonfly said:

While not part of what defines a slaughtermap, common tropes of a slaughtermap include:-

  • Far less emphasis on story
  • Little to no puzzles
  • Hell themed

Thats the kind of maps im looking for. No arena, just simple architecture filled with "lots" of enemies. I dont know wether where to find them nor where to ask for them...so i try it here... >.>

Also compatible to project brutality is a big plus. <.<

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notsodead said:

I dont know wether where to find them nor where to ask for them.


Hm. I've personally not been the largest fan of oversized maps unless going on a real coop spree. Not done that for a while.

I've not played this map in a LONG time, so my memory may be completely absurd, but europe.wad I recall being huge, not just arenas etc. You can find it here.

I also remember Morpheus/Remmirath making a notably large map, but I believe the monster count was in the lower region, especially for it's size. Either way I also recall this being a very enjoyable play - idgames link

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scifista42 said:

I think to call Hell Revealed slaughter-based is a bit of a stretch. Sure, some of the maps are heavily packed with monsters, but the most of them are not so dense given the size of many of the maps, are quite manageable, and the gameplay relies more on resource management and planning on how to tackle the opposition presented, ala Plutonia. The sequel, I can agree it leans closer to slaughter-based, especially in the later maps.

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Ragnor said:

When all sense of story, theme and place is thrown out the door, and Doom focuses on being a game, rather than an immersive experience.

I'm fine with killing hundreds of demons...if they "fit" and dont feel copypasted. I played through GRAYTALL recently, and was absolutely disgusted by Map 9 and Map 11. Both of them ruined the wad's theme by having huge random blocks of monsters just dumped everywhere, where its clear the authour only focused on the combat aspect.


You want the brown and pink claymation demons to be used realistically.

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Grain of Salt said:

You want the brown and pink claymation demons to be used realistically.


Nobody said realistically. Keeping suspension of disbelief, atmosphere, and immersion can apply to surreal and unusual things as well.

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