BRUTAL DOOM IS INSANE!

[SavageCorona]

joe-ilya said:

It's like Brutal doom, only with less useless features, it focuses on being smooth, introducing advanced deaths (not the lengthy brutal doom where you shoot dying monsters who ask for mercy) and there are no gameplay changes besides giving the SSG and the chaingun alterenative attacks, but you're not forced to use them.

I've played both a very old version of Beautiful Doom and a relatively new one and neither of them are remotely similar to Brutal Doom in any way.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

Chezza said:

For those who really don't like Brutal Doom but don't mind modern mechanics would you see BD as a good wad if:
- Remove all the stupid taunts from finger to obnoxious comments
- Lessen the amount of blood that flies alover the place
- Remove the silly 'kick-in-the-balls-stun' mechanics
- Remove the fatalities or just make them more subtle

All these features have been optional for... the last years?

You can unbind the taunt keys, use the bd_bloodamount cvar to reduce or increase the amount of blood, and use the "smash mode" on fists, that completely removes the fatalities. Not to count that v20 added stuff like the Classic Mode, which removes weapon reloading/alt fire modes, it can also remove new monster behavior such as pouncing imps and make the whole experience 90% similar to Vanilla Doom gameplay.
About the screaming enemies, I have reduced the volume and length of their screaming sounds since v18.

Chezza said:

- Finally, if Sgt.Mark was a likable guy

I also wish 80% of this community wasn't spoiled children that have grown into unpleasant hypocrite adults of the kind that nobody calls for parties. But hey, we can't have everything we want in life, right?

Chezza said:

But I tell you what, if SGT.Mark was just a humble bloke who probably made some nice reviews, endorsed other peoples wads with the "influence" he has over the fresher Doom fans then I suspect he would be much more respected around these parts and it would clearly rub off on his mod as well.

You could have easily imagined that I have very little interest in using my influence to help a community which a moderator openly endorses people to distance my work from myself, right?

[Cacatou]

I think the problem isn't really with the Brutal Doom mod or anything. It's just the fans. It's as though every once in a while a fan will post a thread about it here and expect others to share his opinion. When they don't, a huge shitfest begins and that's why these threads just end up helled.

As for Brutal Doom as a mod, Doomworld isn't really noted for being a place that goes gaga about mods. A lot of people here just prefer Doom as it is and bullshit claims like "Brutal Doom is what Doom should/would have been" don't really help your point. They just make you look like a deluded fanboy.

[CyberDemonEmpress]

Hopefully OP wasn't scared off as a result.

[Da Werecat]

This drama is getting old.

[Protester]

Cacatou said:

I think the problem isn't really with the Brutal Doom mod or anything. It's just the fans. It's as though every once in a while a fan will post a thread about it here and expect others to share his opinion. When they don't, a huge shitfest begins and that's why these threads just end up helled.

and yet, the OP definitely didn't ask anyone what their opinions were, everyone just felt obligated to do so, for what reason, i'm not sure...
All i see here is ignorance, people making strawman arguments versus the supposed "Fanboys" and of course, the ole circle jerk of "yeah, those little kids don't know shit" type stuff.
If you got a gripe with the mod, talk about the mod. If you got a gripe with a person, talk about the person, if you got a gripe about a group... well lets just say, stereotypes are bad. Either way, arguments are about persuasion, and as far as i can see, the ones against the mod seem to be lacking in it.
This is all so derailed... An interesting maxim relating to all this: "Matters of taste are not be disputed".

[Chrono_T]

still prolly the best sum up of why ppl dont like brutal doom right here

[Chezza]

Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

I also wish 80% of this community wasn't spoiled children that have grown into unpleasant hypocrite adults of the kind that nobody calls for parties. But hey, we can't have everything we want in life, right?

You could have easily imagined that I have very little interest in using my influence to help a community which a moderator openly endorses people to distance my work from myself, right?

Oh hey SGT Mark actually posts here.

Well since you are reading this and I don't want to give to give the wrong impression, I just want to say I personally love Brutal Doom and have no ill Will against you. While I'm no fan of the taunts (and the Marines can get annoying) I shamelessly love everything else and your work has returned my passion for Doom. In fact my very membership on this forum and my work on mapping is largely inspired by your efforts. In addition I've been working on a wad dedicated to Brutal Doom. Hell this is one of my introductory posts: https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/74190-convince-me-that-brutal-doom-is-overrrated/

Now I have to admit, without personally viewing much of the controversial comments or actions you apparently made I have been mostly relying on opinions from others around here and the odd gander at the ZDoom forums. I believe there HAS to be some truth to what so many people suggest. I highly doubt this community is filled up with jealous liars. Maybe a good number of my little pony fans perhaps but not many liars.

But I suppose I ought to just ask you directly, do you believe or have claimed those who dislike your mod are jelly? What's your take on all this? I would like to witness some of Sgt Mark's current opinions and attitude for myself.

[Cacatou]

Protester said:

and yet, the OP definitely didn't ask anyone what their opinions were, everyone just felt obligated to do so, for what reason, i'm not sure...
All i see here is ignorance, people making strawman arguments versus the supposed "Fanboys" and of course, the ole circle jerk of "yeah, those little kids don't know shit" type stuff.
If you got a gripe with the mod, talk about the mod. If you got a gripe with a person, talk about the person, if you got a gripe about a group... well lets just say, stereotypes are bad. Either way, arguments are about persuasion, and as far as i can see, the ones against the mod seem to be lacking in it.
This is all so derailed... An interesting maxim relating to all this: "Matters of taste are not be disputed".

You do know that a forum is meant for discussion right? When someone posts a thread, it isn't just for their opinion, it's meant to start a discussion. Otherwise, you could say the same about the people defending Brutal Doom. People were "bashing" Brutal Doom but that doesn't mean they're obligated to defend it. I'm not against Brutal Doom in the least, it's just another mod that I don't play. The plain fact is that it was the fans of Brutal Doom who made bullshit claims like the fact that "ZDoom and Zandronum are the only two source ports that matter" which is absolute tripe. Also just repeatedly claiming that this is a circle jerk makes it look like you have no real points to make and are here just to bash the community for holding opinions different from yours.

[Suitepee]

There needs to be more people making more Brutal Doom-specific wads that take advantage of Brutal's extra gameplay tweaks. Because I kind of enjoy Brutal in moderation, and it'd be nice to see people making wads specifically designed for Brutal Doom, instead of just insisting it be slapped on top of everything. (I've been linked to two by SgtMarkIV himself, but there needs to be more imo)

I'm kind of surprised this hasn't gone to Post Hell yet...

[Protester]

Cacatou said:

You do know that a forum is meant for discussion right? When someone posts a thread, it isn't just for their opinion, it's meant to start a discussion. Otherwise, you could say the same about the people defending Brutal Doom. People were "bashing" Brutal Doom but that doesn't mean they're obligated to defend it. I'm not against Brutal Doom in the least, it's just another mod that I don't play. The plain fact is that it was the fans of Brutal Doom who made bullshit claims like the fact that "ZDoom and Zandronum are the only two source ports that matter" which is absolute tripe. Also just repeatedly claiming that this is a circle jerk makes it look like you have no real points to make and are here just to bash the community for holding opinions different from yours.

plain fact is we've derailed a simple "wow" thread into an argument over "my opinion is more important than yours!" its all that, opinions. If you want to discuss something, there's a much more civil way of doing it than just saying "i hate the fans" 8x times. I say thats a circle-jerk because its just agreeing with something thats already been said, over and over. If a forum is for discussion, lets not sit around and make insults to people who aren't even here, let alone attempting to make the supposed "tripe" claims. I'm done with this. This threads gone too far downhill at this point to be trying to make points.

The OP asked for other cool mods and wads to try out. If he hasn't been scared off the thread yet, i ask him to check out vanguard, its pretty sweet, and runs with gameplay mods pretty well.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

Chezza said:

But I suppose I ought to just ask you directly, do you believe or have claimed those who dislike your mod are jelly?

Not everyone, but I would say that this is true for at least 50% of the cases. There are people who simply don't like Brutal Doom, don't play it, and don't talk about it. And there are people who insist in leaving their common areas, specially taking their time to come to my youtube channel or facebook page, or virtually any place in the internet that attempts to talk about Brutal Doom, trying to make me acknowledge that they think it's the worse thing ever and that I am also the worse person ever and calling anyone that disagrees as blind sheep. The later case can't be classified by any other way than jealously. And as I already mentioned, when it reaches the point where a forum moderator endorses the act of ripping off my projects without giving me credits, the "Nobody is jealous of you" talk doesn't works anymore.

[kmxexii]

if you have been gone awhile, then i must suggest Pirate Doom. It won't play with other mods tho

[Doomkid]

The only thing that gets me these days is people crediting Mark for ZDoom/GZDoom itself, and saying literally everything was made by him. People who lack reading comprehension, obviously.

I also can't grasp how some people can like BD and not like the actual game. This is a rare case among the main various Doom communities, but when you see randoms playing it on Youtube or Twitch or whatever there's always those idiots saying the game is "boring" without it. That's not Mark's fault, that's just the fault of random idiocy.

[dg93]

Heh, I remember sometime last year the administrator from the Doomworld Facebook group banned people for starting conversations about Brutal Doom because of all the flamewars it created. Why people can't be civil when talking about this mod is beyond me.

Doomkid said:

I also can't grasp how some people can like BD and not like the actual game.

Because to some people, the definition of a good game is to have excessive blood and gore, along with heavy weaponry, frantic gameplay, and loud sfx. If that is their preference, then that's fine and dandy. I think the people you are referring to that like Brutal Doom but not the actual game, are more than likely young kids who never grew up playing the game. They probably discovered the mod off of youtube or some gaming website and were dazzled by the chaotic gameplay.

To me, I'd rather play the original Doom. Brutal Doom is fun once in a while, but playing it too much can become a bit monotonous. I think that's what happened to me a while ago. I discovered Brutal Doom back in 2012 and pretty much went through my brutal doom is the best ever phase kind of like how the OP of this thread reacted to the mod. But after a while, it just got old. The only time I play it is online on a Zandronum server, which is once in a while.

Though, I do give credit to Sgt. Mark IV for creating Brutal Doom because it was innovative and groundbreaking at the time. It also seems to have brought a lot of new people into the community.

[Orangestar]

Chrono_T said:

still prolly the best sum up of why ppl dont like brutal doom right here

<snip>

Oh wow hot dang someone liked the writeup I made all those ages ago.
Some of the info is kinda outdated, (I don't know anything about the recent balancing changes.) but neat.

[Ashstrodamus]

So you say you like Brutal Doom? Must kill, die, hatespeech, etc.

[Prologue-9]

I like Project Brutality with the Ult. Doom visor. The dynamic progression system really brings on a different kind of feel with the difficulty curve, and I can't express how much I love all the new enemy behaviors. Really like the Doom 4 inspired stuff. Makes for some refreshing gameplay every now and then, ya know?

[SavageCorona]

It's an alright mod for a romp every now and then once you've beaten a wad before but it's not the second coming of Jesus.

[Aaron Blain]

OP, if you're still there, watch these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s8oGz0TUHY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBPgl_wPBs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg13Xv6t9_E

If you browse the old ZDoom forum threads, you'll find some gems in there. I personally enjoy the modest but inventive works of WildWeasel and Xaser.

[Deadwing]

I'm fine with Brutal Doom, though I prefer the vanilla gameplay.

[The Civ]

Mark, really.
When, WHEN, will you learn the difference between criticism and hate.
There's a pretty fine line, but it seems like you can't tell the difference whatsoever.
I'm tired of any and all constructive criticism being rejected with a fine "I wish you weren't such an entitled brat, stop telling me what to do."
I will however, give you kudos for actually attempting to fix things such as the screams, and making many things optional.
However, coming with that, it's obvious you don't give three shits about any of the optional stuff, especially with the "Classic" mode of gameplay being incredibly half assed and broken.
I'm just dragging this out more than it needs to be at this point, so I guess if I had to pack my thoughts into something a bit more condensed, I'd just say:
"Learn how to deal with criticism, Don't meet criticism with anger and the same overused phrases, and actually take what the players of YOUR MOD want, into consideration."

[Astral-Doomer]

Brutal doom is awesome. I feel it does some very innovative things for dooms game play(Atmosphere, interaction, etc). The barrels(Even the flaming ones), are use-able. V20 it seems, has some flaws to its game-play, but from what I understand, project brutality remedies a lot of that. :-)

But when you think about it, every major video game, mod, meta-mod, has its share of issues. But, modders will go in & fix that stuff up. The haters are either delusional, jealous or whatever reason, they can go else-where if they don't like the mod. ;-P

Now, the people giving it constructive criticism, shouldn't be dis-missed, if it helps to improve the game-plays performance. But, from what I've seen, mark usually accepts a good dose of it. 8-)

Well, I've said enough, have a good one all! B-)

[SavageCorona]

Astral-Doomer said:

The haters are jealous

YOU WENT AND DID IT

[RestlessRodent]

Dislike is not hatred.

<Someone>

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

The Civ said:

Mark, really.
When, WHEN, will you learn the difference between criticism and hate.
There's a pretty fine line, but it seems like you can't tell the difference whatsoever.

You don't seem to know the difference between criticism types. Not every kind of criticism should be listened.

e.g.: I walk into the room wearing a red shirt. You come to me and say:

Your shirt is awful.

This is Destructive Criticism. Nothing useful comes out of it. You just expressed your negative opinion towards it and your desire to discourage me, I have no reasons to listen to you. Because it's just your opinion, and your opinion doesn't matters. Also because your opinion is not the same as everybody else's opinions.

Your shirt is awful because it's red, and red doesn't fits you. I recommend blue, or black.

This is Constructive Criticism. You are telling me what is wrong with the shirt, why you didn't like it, and presenting a point of why other people might not like it too. And you are also pointing alternatives on how I can improve it.

[VGamingJunkie]

Brutal Doom just seems to wear out its charm way too quickly. It's more of a gimmick than anything else and it gets pretty repetitive. Guess I'm just not its target audience.

[mrthejoshmon]

Astral-Doomer said:

Brutal doom is awesome. I feel it does some very innovative things for dooms game play(Atmosphere, interaction, etc). The barrels(Even the flaming ones), are use-able. V20 it seems, has some flaws to its game-play, but from what I understand, project brutality remedies a lot of that. :-)

But when you think about it, every major video game, mod, meta-mod, has its share of issues. But, modders will go in & fix that stuff up. The haters are either delusional, jealous or whatever reason, they can go else-where if they don't like the mod. ;-P

Now, the people giving it constructive criticism, shouldn't be dis-missed, if it helps to improve the game-plays performance. But, from what I've seen, mark usually accepts a good dose of it. 8-)

Well, I've said enough, have a good one all! B-)

This is the single most beautiful thing I have ever seen, I shed a tear...

Spoiler

...The world is doomed!

[RestlessRodent]

Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Constructive Criticism on red shirts.

On the deck of the Enterprise:

Your shirt is awful because it is red, and red means that the captain of this very ship will send you to an early death on an away mission, I highly recommend that you wear a
different shirt, say gold or blue, if you value your longevity!

EDIT: needed more \n.

[Deadwing]

Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

You don't seem to know the difference between criticism types. Not every kind of criticism should be listened.

e.g.: I walk into the room wearing a red shirt. You come to me and say:

Your shirt is awful.

This is Destructive Criticism. Nothing useful comes out of it. You just expressed your negative opinion towards it and your desire to discourage me, I have no reasons to listen to you. Because it's just your opinion, and your opinion doesn't matters. Also because your opinion is not the same as everybody else's opinions.

Your shirt is awful because it's red, and red doesn't fits you. I recommend blue, or black.

This is Constructive Criticism. You are telling me what is wrong with the shirt, why you didn't like it, and presenting a point of why other people might not like it too. And you are also pointing alternatives on how I can improve it.

Also, even if it is a constructive criticism, not every suggestion should be considered a mandatory change for the mod :P Some stuff are too hard to implement, others won't reinforce the intended experience, etc.