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raymoohawk

what id creatures woud be at home in doom

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so id games in general tend to have very cool bestiaries, what monsters from other id games do you think would have worked if they had been introduced in the original doom/doom2 bestiary, and why?

i for one could totally see the shamblr infighting with the baron of hell (dont know how well they measure up statwise tho)

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Wolf3D had dogs, Quake had dogs; i'd say dogs.

They could've worked well in the city levels and DeHacked cannon fodder as well.

I would also tone down the Guardian from D3 and put it in the game as another boss-type monster

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IMX said:

Wolf3D had dogs, Quake had dogs; i'd say dogs.

They could've worked well in the city levels and DeHacked cannon fodder as well.

I would also tone down the Guardian from D3 and put it in the game as another boss-type monster


Pinky's were basically just huge mutated dog-type enemies. They would've acted the exact same, just with less health.
The fiend would be a good alternative; melee only like the Pinky, except they can leap and (given good enough AI) hop onto ledges.

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Yeah I agree, most if not all Quake monsters would fit with the original Dooms. And if you consider Doom 4 it looks like all of Quake 2 monsters would suit it :P

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Some Doom wads add dogs to the bestiary and I don't like that because I feel pity when shooting them. As if cacodemons weren't enough already...

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Strogg foot-soldiers would fit.
Basically zombie-men with wired in cybernetics. Such as drill/chainsaw arms or such like.

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Basically... None of Quake's monsters. If given the opportunity, I'd like to see something along the lines of Doom 3's Wrath that acts like a Fiend. An actual threatening chainsaw zombie like the ogre would be nice, too.

Quake is too Lovecraftian for Doom.

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Memfis said:

Some Doom wads add dogs to the bestiary and I don't like that because I feel pity when shooting them. As if cacodemons weren't enough already...


i also feel bad about shooting the dogs XD altho to be fair i rarely kill a monster in doom if i have the option to just flee (this excludes hitscanners and revenants) im just a softy like that

i agree that the quake bestiary in general fits in with doom, but what about non id games that use the id engines, like heretic, those monster are often used in pwads, but how well do they fit in?

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Quite a few from the Hexen bestiray. Particularly 1, 3, 7 & 10.

Also, 1, 7 & 9 from Heretic.

I'm really glad they left dogs out of Doom, though as dog opponents go, the robo'esque Dobermans in Quake weren't awful. Love how someone turned the Wolfenstein dogs into pets you can summon, fighting alongside the space marine. Would make a great pick-up item.

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From Wolfenstein/Spear: pretty much nothing. Case in point: how unfitting the SS is. If you update the art style instead of reusing the original sprites, the mutants maybe could serve as weird zombies. Perhaps the Spear ghosts, if they get a less goofy makeover. In Spear of Destiny they're just far too cute. In Return to Danger they're a bit more sinister-looking, though still quite cartoony. In Ultimate Challenge they're weird radioactive clouds of flying green lines...

Technician said:

Basically... None of Quake's monsters.


Heh, I think most of Quake's monsters would fit in Doom. Shamblers, fiends, scrags, and vores aren't weirder or less demonic than mancubuses or arch-viles.

Ogres and knights wouldn't fit though.

Soundblock said:

Quite a few from the Hexen bestiray. Particularly 1, 3, 7 & 10.

Also, 1, 7 & 9 from Heretic.


From the Raven bestiary, I'd say gargoyle, golem, sabreclaw, weredragon, afrit, stalker, wendigo, death wyvern, chaos serpent, and Korax could potentially fit.

Basically, demons have to be naked -- only (super)natural weapons like claws, teeth, and unholy plasma breath; no armor, clothing, jewelry or other trinket; only exception is for cyber-enhancement directly grafted onto their demonic flesh and bones.

So things like the Quake ogres and knights, or like the Raven ettins, ophidians, disciples, bishops, etc. would break that theme.

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Would be cool to see the Centroid and the Gremlin from the expansion pack. An enemy that can steal your weapons? Great concept.

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I personally think the floating heads (I think it's called a Lich) from Heretic would be nice. It honestly looks like something I'd expect to see in hell.

Nothing else from Heretic would fit that much though.

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IMX said:

Wolf3D had dogs, Quake had dogs; i'd say dogs.


the EDGE port contains them as extra monsters...
not sure about the 3DGE fork...

@ETTiGRiNDER: Well, there's a giant demon-like monster in Hovertank 3D, even before Catacombs 3D...

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The Shambler is the first thing that comes to mind, along with the Fiend and Vore.
Heh, I wouldn't be surprised if any of those guys make a cameo appearance in Doom 2016.

IMX said:

Wolf3D had dogs, Quake had dogs; i'd say dogs.

I don't like the idea of shooting dogs, unless they were zombiefied (like the Quake Rottweilers). Not that I'm against it, but we have animal lovers here, and I'm not sure how they'll feel about that.

raymoohawk said:

but what about non id games that use the id engines, like heretic

The only thing I could think of is the Maulotaur. The sprites would have to be modified to fit in with the Doom-style demonic theme, as Gez pointed out...

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scalliano said:

Vagary. I like the idea of a telekinetic enemy in classic Doom.


The closest thing to that is the Archvile's fire magic that also happens to thrust the player in the air.

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I've always hated Vagary in Doom 3. Dodging her attacks is a purely luck based affair, since they come from random directions, which means that the only efficient stragegy against her is to use your strongest weapon to kill her ASAP while randomly running around the room like crazy. Similarly, I hate Vores in Quake, because the strategy against them is the same (or alternatively running away from them across half the map), otherwise you're almost guaranteed to eventually take damage if you ever let them fire at you. Their potential Doom counterparts would have to be toned down in annoyingness to make me appreciate them.

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The Vore's Doom counterpart would be the Revenant. I do agree that the Vore is a tad OP with that insane seeking ability and the fact it takes 4 rockets or 7-8 double barrelled shotgun rounds, but you can counter that by taking sharp corners or just hiding before the projectile is even launched, making it hit the wall and just duck in and out firing rockets. You shouldn't even be remotely near the vore to begin with, and if you are, there's most likely cover. I feel the game takes a Megaman approach to Vore placement whereby there's no unfair situations where you're completely unable to avoid them. With the exception of HIP3M1 where it teleports in 4 vores around you when you pick up Mjolnir. That's just cheap.

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SavageCorona said:

The Vore's Doom counterpart would be the Revenant. I do agree that the Vore is a tad OP with that insane seeking ability and the fact it takes 4 rockets or 7-8 double barrelled shotgun rounds, but you can counter that by taking sharp corners or just hiding before the projectile is even launched, making it hit the wall and just duck in and out firing rockets. You shouldn't even be remotely near the vore to begin with, and if you are, there's most likely cover.


What you said is making me think of the Archvile.

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Gez said:

From Wolfenstein/Spear: pretty much nothing. Case in point: how unfitting the SS is. If you update the art style instead of reusing the original sprites, the mutants maybe could serve as weird zombies. Perhaps the Spear ghosts, if they get a less goofy makeover. In Spear of Destiny they're just far too cute. In Return to Danger they're a bit more sinister-looking, though still quite cartoony. In Ultimate Challenge they're weird radioactive clouds of flying green lines...

Heh, I think most of Quake's monsters would fit in Doom. Shamblers, fiends, scrags, and vores aren't weirder or less demonic than mancubuses or arch-viles.

Ogres and knights wouldn't fit though.

From the Raven bestiary, I'd say gargoyle, golem, sabreclaw, weredragon, afrit, stalker, wendigo, death wyvern, chaos serpent, and Korax could potentially fit.

Basically, demons have to be naked -- only (super)natural weapons like claws, teeth, and unholy plasma breath; no armor, clothing, jewelry or other trinket; only exception is for cyber-enhancement directly grafted onto their demonic flesh and bones.

So things like the Quake ogres and knights, or like the Raven ettins, ophidians, disciples, bishops, etc. would break that theme.

Someone should just make a ZDoom megawad where the player can encounter any of these monsters together.

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chungy said:

The Shambler in Doom would be sick.

It's already waiting at the DOS prompt.

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SavageCorona said:

That's actually pretty spooky how 2 entirely different attacks can just use the exact same tactic to avoid damage.



well, it's simple taking cover, in both cases. the difference is how likely the attack is to hit you if you don't have cover. you can bunnyhop or or make a sharp turn fast enough to shake the vore's ball, but the archvile is going to toast you as long as he has LOS. the vore is rather annoying when you have only quake's piddly ssg because is takes a lot of corner camping and sidestepping to bring her down. quad damage ftw.

speaking of vores, shamblers, fiends and scrags, i'll echo gez here that these fit doom wonderfully, they're not different from the hellish horrors doom has. they look more sinister to me because they're blood-smeared and eyeless, compared to doom's more colorful enemies. best for hellish maps imo. hey, i wonder why there's no doom shambler on realm667.

strogg enemies (zombie cyborgs) would fit the techbase theme.

floating heads? interesting. something like a giant archvile / cyberdemon head, a floating knight's helmet doesn't look like doom.

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HavoX said:

I don't like the idea of shooting dogs, unless they were zombiefied (like the Quake Rottweilers). Not that I'm against it, but we have animal lovers here, and I'm not sure how they'll feel about that.



But shooting people is A-Okay. They're just Nazis after all. It's not like they're people.

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Clonehunter said:

But shooting people is A-Okay. They're just Nazis after all. It's not like they're people.

There's a wide difference in sapience between a dog and a man. The Nazi guard has the ability to make a choice of rejecting Nazi ideology and deserting or joining some resistance movement like the "Black Orchestra", so by remaining an enemy of the player, the Nazi guard has willfully embraced an evil ideology. The dog is a dog. The dog cannot make a choice about supporting or opposing nazism. The dog has no real free will in this situation.

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