ProtoDeth - Vanilla D2

[JCB]

Hey guys! As the title suggests (kind of) this is a basic vanilla test/prototype level i've made. My 2nd map ever so be gentle because it probably sucks ass but hopefully not as much as my first one.

If anyone would be kind enough to run through this thing and tell me:

Too cramped? Too Hard? Too Easy? Switches too obtuse and convoluted? Too boring? Too ugly? Did you die and exit or did you try again? Any FDAs? I would love to watch someone else play something I created.

I've attempted to make a level that feels like a random d2 map with plenty of lifts, switches, and monsters but without making much sense Lol.

I want to move on and make good levels eventually

I tested in Pr/GL boom, Zdoom, and Gzdoom. Chocolate doom crashes for some reason (was hoping someone knowledgeable can help me understand why)

*fixed alot of noob issues so far, learned alot - working on plat overflow now*

SS









Download link - http://www.mediafire.com/download/1xpbvv60czda1tw/jcbPROTOTYPE.wad

[baja blast rd.]

Stuff for fixing: 1) excessive 64-wide hallways; 2) mandatory damaging floors; 3) blocking decorations in irritating places (on both sides of the chaingun); 4) platforms that look like they should be switch-activated but aren't; 5) mandatory medkit pickup on an obligatory path (I don't want to waste a medkit when I have 97% health); 6) a zero-tagged lift walkover that affects basically every zero-tagged sector in the entire map in Vanilla compat, which, as you could imagine, creates a lot of problems.

I decided to quit early on because of #6.

[JCB]

Thanks rdwpa, I've fixed most of those. I will definitely make my next map with bigger spaces, either in between or overall. Removed the blocking sprites, added those after testing like a noob. Changed damaging liquids back to water. The mancubis fights are still pretty disappointing. I can't figure out how to fix the tag 0 sectors and it seems like a very big problem.

[baja blast rd.]

I can't figure out how to fix the tag 0 sectors and it seems like a very big problem.

Make sure every triggered action (except for DR/D1 stuff and "Exit Level", afaik, there might be more) has a non-zero tag. Triggered actions are distinct from stuff like "Scroll Texture".

Linedef 749 (in the southernmost room) was the culprit in this map, although it's possible that there are more.

[JCB]

Thank you very much for the help man, i've updated this level but am still trying to wrap up plat overflow and and tag0 error just for the sake of anyone else that happens to download this. and Thank you DoomKid... Your comment alone made the mapping time worth it. My visuals are better than my gameplay at the moment lol. Glad to see a few people welcoming to a beginner; especially as I haven't seen a huge mass of levels recently I really want to contribute.

[Doomkid]

Wow, I love the visuals, stellar job in the respect :) Otherwise, the critiques rdwpa has given are spot on and I recommend following them.

EDIT: The reason this doesn't run in Choco is simply because there are too many visplanes. Oddly, I got an error I've never, ever seen in all my years Dooming a few minutes into the map - "Activeplat: No more plats!"

[Obsidian]

Doomkid said:

Oddly, I got an error I've never, ever seen in all my years Dooming a few minutes into the map - "Activeplat: No more plats!"

First example on the Doom wiki Error page: looks like there's just too much moving platforms at the same time. How many perpetual lifts are there in the map?

[scifista42]

In order to be actually vanilla/ChocolateDoom compatible, a map needs to comply with all vanilla engine's static limits, beware of map-related engine bugs and avoid ZDoomisms (common examples of ZDoomisms listed at the bottom of this post).

If you proclaim your map to be "limit-removing" compatible instead of "vanilla", static limits (and some of engine bugs) will no longer be a problem, and people will know that they need at least PrBoom-plus (preferably with "-complevel 2", which assures precise vanilla compatibility except for the static limits, allows people to record vanilla-compatible demos/speedruns, etc.) to play the wad. ZDoomisms will still be a problem that you need to fix, though.

[SuperCupcakeTactics]

Really nice map, keep it up!
I should have played with jdoom (an old version anyway) to feel like I was 9 again :s

[PsychoGoatee]

Good stuff, especially impressive for an early map. I liked the dynamic encounters, enemies raised to the left and right etc, the use of vertical variation in the level design, a fun level to traverse. And glad I had plenty of ammo and health on HMP.

My criticisms, for some reason it took me 10 minutes to find the switch I needed to lower the thingy so I can get to the red key door. For such an important switch, it felt like should be in a more notable location. It blends in with the other many switches, and it can be tough to remember which one did what.

Also, the little lift that raises near the end of the level that has a Lion switch looking decoration on the wall surrounded by red in the middle while you rise, that's an odd choice for decoration. I played that part several times, and found I couldn't push it, assuming it was a button for a secret or something.

In the exit room, I got stuck in here:



I can make this elevator go up and down a bit, but I can't leave, stuck in there.

Other than those little quirks, really fun stuff. My main thing would be, maybe have a few less buttons for such a short level. Rock on!

[EffinghamHuffnagel]

Using ZDoom. Minor things. Unfortunately, a lot of them. Some have been mentioned before.

Linedef tag 2 raises a damaging water sector(!?) with monsters to floor level, removing its damaging status and letting them attack you. On the automap, there's what looks like a free-standing switch in that sector. If you use that switch, that water sector rises to the ceiling, showing HOMs and blocking access to linedef tag 66 switch which lowers the bars blocking access to the Red Key Door.

Oh, linedef tag 66, which lowers the bars, is actually on the line in front of the switch and not on the switch itself, so it doesn't make a noise or change when you use it. You can also SR around the sector tag 66 bars, BTW. Makes the bars and switch a little unnecessary, but if you block the switch, you don't actually break the map.

Three things, one picture.



This window opening is tagged impassable. No reason for it. Personal pet peeve. Bars, a glass texture, something to give a reason to be impassable. Especially since the other window in the room is passable.

The tops of these metal pillars are a liquid slime texture? Odd choice. If you wanted to keep the sense of the top getting darker and lighter, you could just use a lighting effect.

Why is sector 237 in front of the Gargoyle switch (linedef tag 921) damaging? A hidden, damaging sector that doesn't look like it's damaging? I believe that's called 'dickish'.

In the walkway you use to exit this area, missing step texture on line 1495.

You can't score the secret Megasphere. Linedef tag 179 doesn't work. It's tagged to Lower Floor to 8 above Highest adjacent, not Lowest adjacent, and you have adjacent floors 24 units higher than the current floor.

Don't know how to score the Plasma Gun secret. The wall blocking the opening is not tagged as anything. Clipped inside. Missing Midgrate texture bars on the inside of the secret. The three stone columns dividing the bars also inherited the secret tag when you drew them. Can't be scored.

Sector 258, the secret sector with the Green Armor - you have a second secret sector inside that room. Also an obvious switch which doesn't function. You have a total of seven secrets in the map. Only three are currently valid. There are a couple more things that could be tagged as secret.

The Red Key Door: First, using the full ExitDoor texture looks odd. Second, the sector in front of the Red Key Door is height 80. The ExitDoor texture is height 72, so it tiles. It cuts off the Red Skull borders and the light part of the ExitDoor texture. Doesn't look good.

Two more things, one picture.



Health potion stuck in a pillar.

Exit sign texture like that is really ugly.

Another personal pet peeve: not being able to go back through the map to hunt for secrets and fill up on ammo after I've killed everything. It would be nice if there was a way to open the bars once the Manc is dead. And one of the bars didn't drop at all. It's tagged with linedef tag 66, not 19.

Linedef tag 174 opens all the doors in the exit room, releasing some monsters. Linedef tag 77 lowers all the 'lifts', releasing the Manc, but all the other lifts are already at floor level except the one in the NE corner. If you ride that lift up, you're stuck. No way to lower that lift or the Manc lift from the inside. Were you intending to have linedef tag 77 release all the monsters at the same time?

One monster short. Clipped and found him in the southernmost room. You have sectors tagged 93, which is missing. One of those sectors has the ceiling lower than the floor. There's an Imp stuck in it.

Overall, very nice. I had fun.

Edit: I also kept thinking that the lava area in the SE would be used somehow. Maybe a place to expand. Or end up looking back from the other side of it in a future map.

[JCB]

Thank you so much for the feedback guys.. Just to read that a couple of you actually enjoyed it makes it all worth while for me. I will continue to learn and stop being so lazy. Nearly everything that people disliked are the same things I dislike as well... I need to just push through it and make every single foot of the level fun and dynamic.

Feedback received and noted:

Couple ugly textures/areas ( my laziness I admit )

Obscure switches/Probably too many

Impassable/passable messed up in some places.

The player needs the ability to traverse back through the map

I need to actually design secret areas instead of just throwing in BS.

Reward exploration instead of punishing it

Need to work on enemy placement and triggers.

Need to learn how to freakin search specific linedefs and triggers to fix them.

I need to test every port, every time I make a major change because within 1-2 versions I seemed to of wrecked havoc on my lift/plats.


The outside area with grey rock came out disappointing gameplay wise - If I spent an hour I could of made it match the quality of the rest of the map - lesson learned

Thank every single one of you for the help and the next time you hear from me I will have something even better for you guys ( and with less bugs caused by releasing it too early and then frantically changing things and reuploading.

So validated... I'm like a child, now that I know I can create levels you guys enjoy I will keep doing it until my fingers bleed. (My scrollwheel broke though so I'm having a hell of a time changing sector heights in visual mode... Wish GzDB allowed you to re-bind several keys for several different actions.

I love you guys... kiss me... I mean.. I'll be back soon with something better!