7 Sins - Mega map - Come and test it out! Report bugs!

[scifista42]

^^^ Doom2/TNT/Plutonia contain different textures, which may potentially cause problems (even if most of Doom 2 textures exist in TNT/Plutonia with same or similar appearance). But moreso, their TEXTURE1/PNAMES lumps have different contents, and as a result, wads with any texture replacements will only be compatible with the one IWAD they were made for - if the player is using a port that doesn't support stacked TEXTURE1/PNAMES (=generally said, almost all "lesser than ZDoom" ports), they will encounter texture errors when trying to play the wad with an incorrect IWAD.

Common and proper practice of mappers/modders is to grant compatibility of a PWAD with a certain one IWAD, simply state which IWAD it is, not care about other IWADs, and everybody can be OK with it. Your comments about Final Doom compatibility were really unnecessary, Voros. Sajbear presented his wad alright.

[Dime]

dobu gabu maru said:

dime pls plaey thru this so I can weatch - debu gebu bebu

"grumbles to self...."

[Voros]

Worked for me.
What version do you use?
What kind of error?

[SuperCupcakeTactics]

Don't you mean that it worked with Crispy Doom? :s
Just tried it with Crispy Doom and all the ceilings started closing on me like a door :s

Edited May 22, 2018 by SuperCupcakeTactics

[Voros]

No I meant Chocolate Doom.

[Zulk RS]

This map was okay but I have a question.
Which part of the map represents or reflects which sin? I can't seem to figure it out. Usually I'm good with these kinds of things.

[sajbear]

Zulk-RS said:

This map was okay but I have a question.
Which part of the map represents or reflects which sin? I can't seem to figure it out. Usually I'm good with these kinds of things.

Gluttony = The first room with the mancubuses and the baron
Greed = The room with the moving pillars
Wrath = the third room with all the barons and hell knights
Pride = The warzone room
Envy = the city room
Sloth = the room with the plasmagun
Lust = the outside room

[Zulk RS]

sajbear said:

Gluttony = The first room with the mancubuses and the baron
Greed = The room with the moving pillars
Wrath = the third room with all the barons and hell knights
Pride = The warzone room
Envy = the city room
Sloth = the room with the plasmagun
Lust = the outside room

Wait... How?

[Caleb13]

Nicely done map, just some things I noticed along the way:

Linedef 2450 IMO should open the secret permanently. The trenches with all those hitscanners should be a bit deeper, they offer rather poor protection - the monsters can shoot the player into head even though he/she can't see/fight them. There are unclosed sectors at bloodfall linedefs 5061 and 6551 to 6557. Fatso (thing 875) is stuck. Also, there are many poorly aligned textures in the entire area with the stuck fatso. I completely run out of ammo just before the final 3 barons and cacodemon, but I found only 8 secrets by then. Maybe you could add some more ammo into bloodfall alcoves with the imps?

BTW, is there a way to grab all those goods on pillars in the "Greed" room behind blue doors? Well, to be honest, I didn't find the other parts of the map very illustrative of the sins they are supposed to represent, too.

[sajbear]

Zulk-RS said:

Linedef 2450 IMO should open the secret permanently.

Fixed for 1.3

Zulk-RS said:

The trenches with all those hitscanners should be a bit deeper, they offer rather poor protection - the monsters can shoot the player into head even though he/she can't see/fight them.

Already tweaked this area in 1.2. its fine for now.

Zulk-RS said:

There are unclosed sectors at bloodfall linedefs 5061 and 6551 to 6557.

I couldnt see them in doom builder or in gzdoom, I THINK if fixed them anyway.
What port do you use? I would like to see them for myself

Zulk-RS said:

Fatso (thing 875) is stuck.

Fixed for 1.3

Zulk-RS said:

Also, there are many poorly aligned textures in the entire area with the stuck fatso.

Fixed for 1.3

Zulk-RS said:

I completely run out of ammo just before the final 3 barons and cacodemon, but I found only 8 secrets by then.
Maybe you could add some more ammo into bloodfall alcoves with the imps?

Fixed for 1.3

Zulk-RS said:

BTW, is there a way to grab all those goods on pillars in the "Greed" room behind blue doors?

No, you can't get them. Don't be greedy! ;)

[sajbear]

1.3 has now been released! :)

[Caleb13]

I used Zdoom 2.8pre-1042, it's a bit weird that the unclosed (?) bloodfalls didn't appear in GZdoom.

[scifista42]

It's a classic example of bad midtexture clipping into floors/ceilings in software renderer (OpenGL fixes it). To prevent a midtexture from "sinking" into a floor, there must either be height variation (at least 1 unit) between floors on opposite sides of the linedef, or light variation (at least 1 unit) between sectors on opposite sides of the linedef. The same applies to ceilings.

[Caleb13]

Ah, this one. Apparently, there is a solution for that in Zdoom:

Graf Zahl said:

If you want to switch off mid texture bleeding completely, just put 'clipmidtextures' in the MAPINFO for your map. Then it doesn't matter how to place the texture and no lighting/floor height hacks are necessary.

Original thread:

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-editing/45608-mid-texture-bleeds-into-the-ground/

[scifista42]

If sajbear wanted compatibility with non-ZDoom-based ports too, he should better fix it properly in the map rather than just put a keyword to MAPINFO, because majority of non-ZDoom-based ports doesn't support MAPINFO.

[fabian]

Voros said:

Update! This map works with Chocolate Doom!

Version 1.3 crashes Chocolate Doom with "Too many scrolling wall linedefs! (Vanilla limit is 64)". It loads fine in Crispy Doom, though, but I haven't played it very far.

[fabian]

SuperCupcakeTactics said:

Also just tried it with Crispy Doom and all the ceilings started closing on me like a door :s

o_O Erm, how do I reproduce this?

[sajbear]

scifista42 said:

If sajbear wanted compatibility with non-ZDoom-based ports too, he should better fix it properly in the map rather than just put a keyword to MAPINFO, because majority of non-ZDoom-based ports doesn't support MAPINFO.

I'll probably get to it this weekend :) Hopefully it will be last update I have to do :)

[scifista42]

When you release the update, I will try to play the map in PrBoom-plus with -complevel 2 (= "limit-removing" compatibility, = vanilla compatibility free of static limits). I actually advise you to playtest your map in this port with said complevel, that's the only way to make sure that it's actually compatible with all limit-removing ports. It's wrong to only playtest in an advanced port and expect that classic ports will work too, because certain design choices (known as "zdoomisms", "boomisms" etc) only work in advanced ports but break in classic ports, even if you use "vanilla" map format and vanilla features only. For example the issue with S1/SR/W1/WR/G1/GR lines with tag 0 is a typical zdoomism.

[compy286]

Hey sajbear, played your WAD when you posted it to the Doom subreddit. I liked it a lot but was not able to finish it. I will play through it again sometime in the next couple of days let you know more what I think. I played your 1.1 iteration so I'll go through 1.3 next.

I will also attempt to post a video of me playing through it on the youtubes.

[SuperCupcakeTactics]

fabian said:

o_O Erm, how do I reproduce this?

I'm pretty sure all I did was start the map then immediately press the switches that lowered the armor bonuses, then went to the left and once I opened the door it was nothing but darkness, and then soon after all the ceilings fell :/

[fabian]

SuperCupcakeTactics said:

I'm pretty sure all I did was start the map then immediately press the switches that lowered the armor bonuses, then went to the left and once I opened the door it was nothing but darkness, and then soon after all the ceilings fell :/

This doesn't happen to me. But I am running version 1.3 of this WAD, and I guess you were running an earlier version? Whenever something like this happens again, *please* report it as a bug. Thank you!

[Tetzlaff]

Cool concept, I thought about a Doom 3 level based on the same idea.

sajbear said:

Gluttony = The first room with the mancubuses and the baron
Greed = The room with the moving pillars
Wrath = the third room with all the barons and hell knights
Pride = The warzone room
Envy = the city room
Sloth = the room with the plasmagun
Lust = the outside room

I got the Greed room, nice idea with showing the player "you won't get all these items." The Mancubus is of course the monster of choice for Gluttony, and the fleshy interior fit that theme well.

The Envy part was great, because the claustrophobic city streets instantly made me think of envy. And that part barely gave you any ammo and health at all...

The part with that stubborn series of press switch - baron attack made me slightly angry, so I thought "is this supposed to be the Wrath part?"

I didn't get the Pride, Sloth, and Lust areas. Sloth could have been monsters under crushers and you have just to press buttons to kill them. Or a BFG and invulnerability, but that would be hard to balance out afterwards.

All the areas look good, only the hub room were you lower the barriers one by one could have been more elaborate.

[sajbear]

Version 1.4 has been released!
Also Happy Halloween! :D

scifista42 said:

When you release the update, I will try to play the map in PrBoom-plus with -complevel 2 (= "limit-removing" compatibility, = vanilla compatibility free of static limits). I actually advise you to playtest your map in this port with said complevel, that's the only way to make sure that it's actually compatible with all limit-removing ports. It's wrong to only playtest in an advanced port and expect that classic ports will work too, because certain design choices (known as "zdoomisms", "boomisms" etc) only work in advanced ports but break in classic ports, even if you use "vanilla" map format and vanilla features only. For example the issue with S1/SR/W1/WR/G1/GR lines with tag 0 is a typical zdoomism.

I tested with Pr-Booom-plus with -complevel 2 and I fixed it! Super thanks! :)
Hopefully this the last patch! Moddb, and /idgames next! ;)

compy286 said:

Hey sajbear, played your WAD when you posted it to the Doom subreddit. I liked it a lot but was not able to finish it. I will play through it again sometime in the next couple of days let you know more what I think. I played your 1.1 iteration so I'll go through 1.3 next.

I will also attempt to post a video of me playing through it on the youtubes.

Super cool! ^^

Caleb13 said:

I used Zdoom 2.8pre-1042, it's a bit weird that the unclosed (?) bloodfalls didn't appear in GZdoom.

This is fixed in 1.4! (Yay!)

[Voros]

The part where the bloodfalls are, a number of sectors are too small, and the Imps and Cacodemons and every other demon have their heads slightly clip through the ceiling. It is very weird to see this.

[scifista42]

^ That's an issue in OpenGL ports only. Don't blame the level designer, blame your port of choice. There are lots of Doom maps with low-enough ceilings where this happens, setting a precedens that level designers are not to be blamed for it.

[Voros]

scifista42 said:

^ That's an issue in OpenGL ports only. Don't blame the level designer, blame your port of choice. There are lots of Doom maps with low-enough ceilings where this happens, setting a precedens that level designers are not to be blamed for it.

I didn't know that. In that case, most of the map is perfect.

PS- I said most because nothing is completely perfect. Nothing. Also for future bugs.
Keep up the good work sajbear!

[sajbear]

Voros said:

I didn't know that. In that case, most of the map is perfect.

PS- I said most because nothing is completely perfect. Nothing. Also for future bugs.
Keep up the good work sajbear!

Super ^^

[Voros]

Oh yeah. Forgot to say thanks for the map.
Especially making it compatible with prboom plus, now I can challenge myself with it anywhere I go.

Also, do you plan on making another megamap? If so, how about a map with the idea of...world peace/fighting terrorism?

[Voros]

Found a bug.
D touch- prboom plus.

Some doors don't have upper textures and its visible when it is closed.
The first door is a great example.