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Linguica

COMPET-News

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COMPET-N has another big fat update chock full of demo goodness. There's new LMPs in all different sorts of categories, including NM100S runs of Doom E1 and E3, a E1 UV run in 16 seconds less than Doom Done Quick, a new speedrunning trick where the player hops across an impassible linedef, and lots more.

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Guest Opulent

great to see the NS-episode runs filling up! - also, some great control by Adam W. on several of his runs. Good job, Adam. His ep4 run is spectacular.-- basically the usual Compet-n goodness.

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Ocassionally, I look at the ad banners when I come here. Today I just happened to notice an ad for "Free Quake II - a $54.99 Value!" What the hell is up with that? You can buy Quake II for $10 around here...

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Running through an impassible linedef? Can nothing stop the compet-n player? What are they using...version 1.2 of the doom engine? What next - they'll find a way to clip through the level while running at turbo 255?

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Guest Anonymous User

The people who are regurlars on the site are crazy! They finish Doom2 on Nightmare in less than 20 minutes I mean it takes me that long to play 2 levels (big ones!). But here is an intersting question...are Speedrunners really good deathmatchers? I mean think about it completing levels in an incredible time and not dying is a breeze for them, but what about against a real opponent? Anyone like to comment on that?

-Captain Napalm

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swedish fish, if you watch the demo, you'll notice that you have to be wedged in between the impassible linedef and another really damn tight. it'd suck if they found a way to walk through ALL impassible linedefs. captain napalm, i know that aurikan is an excellent deathmatcher. no clue about adam hegyi and all the other foreigners heh.

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It's a general rule that if you're a regular COMPET-N player, you'd probably be a good Deathmatch player. Much of the skills needed in speedrunning is fighting monsters and dodging bullets and rockets, and running really fast and circle-strafing. Even if a COMPET-N player hasn't played Deathmatch before, much of his/her skills are already developed, and he/she would have an easier time learning and getting good at Deathmatch than your regular player. :-b

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uh, no. the skills needed for deathmatch and sp are different. sure, the basic manuvers like straferunning and strafejumping are already developed. but your opponents in sp are mindless AI-controlled monsters - predictable. in deathmatch, your opponent (if good) is unpredictable. will he go for the bfg next, or will he try for the plasma gun? what weapon does he currently have? in SP, you know exactly where every monster starts. you know every single one of their manuvers and tactics. in DM, the player has a random spawn point location chosen. you don't know what weapons he currently has until you see him, you don't know what he'll do next.

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Well...just have to comment on this one since I love to discuss the DM / SP differences. Personally I think I've playd both "cats" in pretty equal ammounts. The thing with DM is like Prower points out - the strategy element. I think its possible for a really good compet-N player to suck big time in DM, even with some practise....SP develops playstyles thats built on manuvering controls, not 180 degree SSG flips. Personally I think DM requiers more basic playing skills then SP.

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Yes, real life player opponents are much different than monsters. There's no doubt about that. I'm just saying that this rumor that COMPET-N players have this secret weakness that they suck at DM, just isn't true.

I mean, COMPET-N players spend hours on end making these recordings. Probably only around 2% of their actual playing time goes into the record books. Playing DOOM is their hobby, or at least a major hobby for them. When you're a regular COMPET-N player, you play DOOM, A LOT!! I mean, you spend A LOT of time!! Me, I'm only a semi-regular COMPET-N player, and I still don't think I could play more than I do now. Okay, I could, but I wouldn't, in the name of I shouldn't play too much video games.
With all this DOOM practice, even if you've never played DM before, over time, you'd probably be likely to end up being a better DM player than a non-COMPET-N player who plays Deathmatch, for example, oohh, I don't know, let's say Linguica. You know what I mean? I think so.. :-b

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(no, I can't even remember what an obol is. it's a currency, in some book). um, well. i do think if you play doom well as a compet-n player you will automatically be at least a decent deathmatcher. i know i am. not great, because there _are_ some dm skills you don't learn as a competn player. but you _will_ be reasonably good, because all competn players need very tight control - i think adam hegyi has better control than any other player of any wolf3d-genre game at all, including all the quakes - and good aiming. those are two of the basic skills for deathmatch. the reverse is true to _some_ extent, but nowhere near as much. speedrunning is a highly specialised discipline. dump a speedrunner in a dm map they've never played before, against an unknown opponent, they'll still play quite well. ask a dm'er to do map24 in under a minute and they're lost. there's more learning involved in compet-n style play, and some of the skills - monster dodging, damage knowledge etc - you never develop playing dm. it's not a criticism on either style of play, just an observation on the nature of the beast...

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Guest Slipgate

Hey... this mainly directed to Swedish Fish, but to everyone else too. I don't find it too unbelievable to go through an impassable linedef. Remember how sometimes in deathmatch because of getting knocked back by a rocket etc. you can end up stuck in a wall till you push out by running at the right angle to force yourself out? Who's to say you can't go further in and end up coming out the other side? As for turbo 255, remember that time I found out that sometimes trigger linedefs won't trigger when you run over them that fast? (Turbo 255 plus holding down the run button)? Definitely possible. Even in v1.9. Slipgate

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There have been a few times where I've ended up slipping through those impassible fence/bar walls, it's not entirely uncommon.

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I watched the demo and tried it myself. I made it through two times myself repeatedly trying to ram my way in there. I think that they are not exactly running through an impassible linedef but between the point where the two impassibles meet at the vertex.

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I thought I'd add that SP-playing involves more of the basic skills, while DM-playing requires a lot of advanced skills. Why, even my older brother who's turning 30 this year, he wrapped Doom2 on Ultra-Violence. That may not sound extensively impressive, but he didn't know how to use the mouse, so he used the keyboard. He didn't know how to strafe, and he didn't learn how to run until MAP02 where he got stuck for hours. What am I getting at here? I don't know. :-b

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Guest Slipgate

Hm. That's interesting to me. Means that, on some plane of thought, DOOM's engine doesn't apply the properties of the linedef to the exact edges, the vertices, of that linedef. Besides impassable walls, imagine going through two adjacent triggering linedefs without triggering either, etc. Reminds me of a bug in the Guardian Legend on the NES actually... walk at an angle towards two blocks which just meet at one corner, and if there's an item on the other side of that "corner" you'll pick it up but the item won't vanish... so you can keep "picking up" the item. Very wicked when done with a chip item, fill up on money and energy fast ;).

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Guest Cakehead

Dm is intense fragfest. SP is finding those rocket-jumps and running through 2S linedefs.

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Hmm...I don't think there is more to learn from compet-N play then DM. I think a good example here would be Marijo "Sedlo" Sedlic. If anyone where to compeet Adam H in the speedrunning cat, it would have to be him. He played _only_ DM for four years, but he played like a compet-N demon from the first moment he started to care about SP. In DM you sertanly learn the running/strafing and amiming basics, and you learn to play alot more aggressive then a player who only have SP experience. And I'm pretty damn sure that DM is alot better for developing fast reflexes. Thats just my opinion though :)

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You don't think COMPET-N single-player is aggressive, though? It's far more aggressive than any DM I've seen.

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As an accomplished doom player, you probably haven't felt fear playing doom in sp in a long time. You know, the pit in your stomach, sweaty palms and all that.... Play a DM game against a good opponent and you surely will...all over again. :)

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Guest Opulent

Basically, I agree with everyone. =) But who can argue with the great players on this MBoard? Proof is there for us all, though. I would pit the top 10 Compet-N players against the top Quake players for player-control. Compet-N play teaches _exact_ movement as well as a flowing motion. DM is more reaction and knowledgable intuition. 2nd subject: the proof. Fatality is the best q3 player, Kuin is the best Q2 player, and Kane is the best Quake player. Can Kane even _compete_ at the SDA site? No. Can van Dijk beat a PGL player? nope. I guess my point is that the skills overlap; but are clearly different in each category. I certainly wouldn't dm Bassett without him spotting me a few frags... except in Daikatana. =)

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Who the hell are Fatality, Kuin and Kane? Heh...

And Daikatana deathmatch is... different. Apparently I'm pretty good at it too, I ruled a server through 6 or 7 30-fraglimit rounds with a 250 ping... fun stuff.

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Guest Anonymous User

Haven't tried it yet, not sure I really want to :). What makes it so different? Is it any good? Opulent: You think you couldn't take AndrewB in Doom DM, but could in Diakatana Dm. How come?

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Heh, that's my post below. Forgot to enter my username :)

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Guest Adam Hegyi

Dear everyone, thanks for the great comments here... I just wanted to let you know, that in the past few months I've gathered quite a lot of deathmatch demos of COMPET-N and non-COMPET-N players and I'm planning to put them on a website whenever my free-time permits it. Demos of COMPET-N players are welcome... only DOOM2.EXE ones please. Let the demos speak for themselves!

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Guest Pirx

clap, clap... i always wished to see the compet-n players deathmatching!

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Guest Anonymous User

Hi Captain Napalm here again, the one who started the whole "COMPET-N players good deathmatchers?" thing. I just wanted to say I am (pleasently) surprised how many people reacted to my question :) The Comment system really rocks! Well as to wether COMPET-N players are really good deathmatchers...I would have to say they are probaly better than people who only play Doom (SP) once in a while but they would probaly lose against a hardcore Deathmatcher (unless they are one themselves :P). But that´s just me...

-Captain Napalm (I gotta create an account!)

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