csDoom Problems

[Guest B'n'B]

Instead of flaming Fly and guessing why he did what is all flood about I recommend to ask Zoid and Carmack _WHY_ did they released QuakeWorld whith the _SAME_ feature (client whith idSoftware ip had a default rcon permissions)! May be gods can help us?

[Guest Daggah]

1) Before all this trouble with tom_ and channel takeovers, Fly has always said he'd release all sources at version 1.0. There was even some talk that the code would be reintegrated back into zdoom.

Okay, I have not been keeping up with this like others have, but it would seem to me that 0.61 was one of the few CSDoom versions in which the server source (which is where this would be) was NOT released. That's kind of odd.

2) I have often at times felt that Fly was an arrogant SOB, but he has never, EVER, done anything that I felt to be morally wrong. His arrogance is his problem, it alienates his fans. And had you been with us in the IRC channel, you would have seen his struggle with this security hole message thread. Some will never understand, and indeed some folks from #doomroom came in and were publicly humiliating him. Dare I say that I do understand? Dare I say that I agree with most of the kickbans meted out during those hours?

And yet, where's the public apology that would have (or at least should have) been issued if this were all just a misunderstanding?

3) He demonstrated the backdoor to me in a private test in which I ran the server. That's how I knew of its existence. I said that it was for testing purposes only, but that's my opinion, and I cannot guarantee the truth of it. It's my opinion, however, so take it or leave it.

That's funny, the first time you said something about that, you said it in a way that implied that it was FACT. I think I'll leave it, because I know how this looks from a neutral perspective (remember, I don't play csDoom, because I don't play online, but on the other hand, I like the concept of it and have personally supported the idea for a while), and from where I'm standing, it doesn't look good.

4) All of you folks who complain about horrible unoptimised code in csDoom, go fuck off, now, immediately. Find something better to do other than complain about source code you a) will never use and b) will never improve upon.

So people with coding experience and can see that csDoom isn't perfect aren't allowed to constructively criticize it? At least they weren't saying "it sucked" without a reason. You say you don't like Fly's arrogance, but you act almost as arrogant over it yourself. "How dare they criticize csDoom!"

5) Back doors and what not, have you found ANYTHING which could allow Fly to access your hard drive, or whatever? I don't think so. Not to mention the fact that zdoom would be a very poor interface, heh.

I think we've already explained that ANY form of back door is NOT acceptable.

[Guest Tybalt]

"Some stupid people are afraid that their computers will be hacked..." -as quoted from Fly's website So, he puts a back-door in without telling anybody (any reason behind this that I missed?) and calls you stupid if you got worried about it. I don't see why he'd use it, though. Does this mean that someone's going to search to code every time he makes a release, to make sure there are no suprises?

[Arioch]

As I have said, he is rather arrogant. Public apologies are not in his blood. And in 0.61 (released the same day!) he removed the backdoor... but somebody forgot to mention that.

And as for the criticisers of the csDoom code, I'd like to see you name specific examples of why the code is kludgy AND describe how you'd fix them. Just statements like "horrible unoptimised code" will not do!

As for my opinions, they are my opinions to hold based on what I observed. I've not had much chance to talk to Fly lately.

[Arioch]

He is under no obligation to release his source at all. He is under no obligation to release all his sources every time he does an updated beta release. What he's given us is basically out of the goodness of his heart. I mean, even after the first tom_ #csdoom takeover, all he had to do was lie (to tom_) and not release the source anyway.

And it is a pain to update the source packages when you do 3 release versions in a single day.

Just something to keep in mind. I'm not saying this is the truth, these are just my observations.

[NiGHTMARE]

Erm, 'fraid he is oblidged to release his sources. CSDoom is based on ZDoom, which partly consists of Boom, which is under GPL. Sorry.

[Arioch]

He's not obligated to release the source at all. That conversation was dead and over a long time ago. Get off it.

[Guest sponge]

It's in the GPL licsence, you must release the source of any modification. He IS under obligation to release the source, or else he is in breach of contract. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

[Arioch]

zDoom is not really GPL. There's this long-winded discussion about it somewhere. zDoom is actually covered by 3 (conflicting) licenses, I believe.

[Guest MTM]

Why doesn't FLY have anything to say here? lol. He should be trying to defend himself, right?

[Guest Confusion]

Sorry, but what does "werd" mean? Am I being insulted, or agreed with, or what?

And yes, we know that's what you've been trying to say all along. At least I know. There are an awful lot of stupid people out there. Like, for instance, that untrustworthy sod, Fly.

And on this source-release-obligation discussion: I don't care if he is required to release his source or not, but I think it would be...you know...nice of him to do so. Yes, I know that's a pathetic argument, but most people seem good enough to release their source code...and if he did so as well, he would be helping to make the world a better place. Really.

[Arioch]

Fly never(?) posts on Doomworld forums.

And, oh, he DOES release the source even though he's not obligated. That's the point I'm trying to make.

[Lüt]

means "right on".

[Guest ORKFACE]

I agree with your point on this subject.I was calling you dumb cos all you ever do is complane with posts like "this sux","he sux" and things like that

[Cyb]

Fly doesn't have to release the source since ZDoom is under the original license, the GPL and whatever the Heretic/Hexen license is.

However, what is to gain from not releasing the sources? The whole source port community is based on releasing the sources.

Without Randy releasing the ZDoom source there'd be no csDoom, without TeamTNT releasing the Boom source there'd be no csDoom, without Raven relasing the Heretic/Hexen sources there'd be no csDoom, and especially without id Software releasing the Doom source there'd be no csDoom.

My point is, there's no reason not to release the source to anything. What do you have to lose? I mean, besides that fact that people will find all the backdoors you put in there.

[Arioch]

He does release the source. If he didn't he'd receive a lot of flack too. But when he does, and mistakenly(?) leave a backdoor into the program, he receives a lot of flack also. Some people! Yeesh! Make up your mind!

[Guest Daggah]

That's because backdoors are bad. Accidentally? Arioch, first you were claiming that it was an accident as if it were fact, then you claimed it was just an opinion. Now you're claiming it as fact again. Either way, under the circumstances, it sure as hell doesn't look like an accident to me.

[Guest Anonymous User]

Fly, The fact that you put a backdoor in a program is a disgrace to all programmers everywhere. I don't even care whether you did it because of malice or stupidity. Be assured that none of your programs will ever run on my computers. Also be assured that you will never have a job in any company that I am associated with. If you ever go onto any computer that I own without authorization I will see you in a federal prison. The Man.