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Julian

Chaotic Update

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inferno_45: Well, Quake & Unreal don't allow for nearly as many monsters on the screen at once (that whole polygon-count issue); it is improving, though.

Erik: Don't worry, there IS combat, but it is (hopefully) very surprising. It is not a steady stream of monsters, but more sudden, violent conflicts.

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I'm not quite so good at detail as Ebola and Fredrik but there has to be a point in which there's too much detail, isn't there?
The detail has to be good, but it should also be believable too, right?

I don't see any reason why a light fixed to the ceiling should be more than six sectors, or why a computer terminal indented in a wall should have more than thirty linedefs.
And I definitely don't see why a lift should take up more than 243 sidedefs.

I'd say making levels fun and nice to look at is a higher priority than making them impressive. If there's enough detail to slow your computer to the point of which you have to wait four seconds to see if your shotgun blast killed the imp, then the fun factor is somewhat depleted.

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This may sound odd, given that I posted the numbers which started this minor debate, but I agree -- when I play levels, I want to play them, not stutter through them.

But...when I create levels, I pretty much do whatever the hell I want. This may sound selfish, but I make levels for me; I derive great pleasure in the art of designing, and when I have the freedom to do what I take advantage of it (even if that includes making a computer station with more than 30 linedefs). It just so happens that I get enough positive feedback from others that I continue to release levels to the public -- apparently (and occasionally to my surprise), others also can enjoy what I have created.

Were I making levels strictly for the purposes of delighting everyone in the audience, I may not choose to add so much detail, or include more Imps, or whatever; I would heed the public's desires. However, since I make levels for me, I allow myself complete freedom and only work to please yours truly. Sure, I love and appreciate positive feedback, but Doom editing is my own personal joy -- if you like my levels, great, and if not...oh well, since they weren't build to make you happy, they were built because it makes me happy to build.

This may sound rather "High and Mighty," I suppose, but it's true. Don't play 'em if you don't like 'em, but if you do -- great. I like 'em, too.

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I mean, "when I have the freedom to do WHAT I WANT I take advantage of it..."

Dammit -- I drink alot.

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"But...when I create levels, I pretty much do whatever the hell I want. This may sound selfish,"

No it doesn't. You can't please everyone and there's no point in trying. Make levels that you like and if others like it too, that's a plus.
It's a good philosophy I think.

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Still, it goes beyond trying to please everyone; I'm trying to please ME, and no one else. Ha-ha-ha, suckers... :)

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Well, none of the detail in my big maps is really all that complex in nature, it just happens that at points I do different things on the ceiling and floor and when you overlap those in Doom, the detail statistics for that scene grow exponentially.

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Fredrik you shouldn't be one to brag amount amount of sidedefs/sectors/etc... all you do is repeat and overlap details... nothing too exciting.

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Afterglow: I think that would be Vrack 2... I have to admit that it mostly featured some repetitive ceiling lights. Vrack 3 is detail-wise an enormous leap from its precursor. In Vrack 3, the architecture / lighting / detail is unique for every room. And it's of the massive kind in some places, I tell you =)

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Actually when I make maps.. I always try to impress myself.. Usually I fail. Sometimes I succeed for 5 minutes.. after that.. I've failed again.. hmmm..

BTW: Erik: Thanks. :p

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I always try to impress myself..
Well, you must be really unaccepting. You've certainly impressed me with some of your maps before....

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<< Well, Quake & Unreal don't allow for nearly as many monsters on the screen at once >>

Uh, surely that's limited by your hardware, not the games themselves.

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Uh...okay. But I defy any system to run vanilla Quake with 63 monsters in one room. The slow-down is exponentially more noticeable in Quake than it is in Doom.

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