New Vavoom

[Linguica]

Version 1.11.1 of the Doom/Heretic/Hexen engine Vavoom has been released. According to the homepage, "this version fixes some serious bugs with wepons and bots. It also incluses SDL port for Linux by Carsten Schmidt." The author has also written up some documentation on the VavoomC scripting language for interested coders.

[GooberMan]

*downloads*
hopefully it isn't so buggy this time round...

[Aardappel]

vavoom is technically VERY impressive work, the vavoom c compiler works flawlessly, and the software renderer is easily the most impressive of any doom port. I'm making a tiny mod with it just for fun... why not more people are using this is beyond me.

[captmellow]

I agree, though I haven't tried the compiler. I think that people stay away due to the difficulty running it. I cannot run the "feature-adding" releases, until they are followed up w/ the "bug-fixing" releases. I a hoping this latest version of the latter will work on my machine.

BTW, Aard, it seems the new cube netcode is choppier for me, though I haven't found anyone else on the servers to test it w/ so far, & the recent dearth of cube forums makes it even harder to network w/ cuber's. :-(

[Guest EvilOne]

Just to mention this is the only port that combines slopes AND 3D-floors, also transparent floors, static colored lighting with shadowcasting, and ACS. Not to mention that all the specials are implemented in the progs so a mapper working in pair with VCC programmer could get fantastic effects (don't forget about particles.

Now with these new bots, I really hope to see some DM maps using all the Vavoom features.

[NiGHTMARE]

Well, I think the reason why so few people us it because it came along too late. By the time of the first release, everyone had already had a port of choice for some time, be it Boom, Legacy, EDGE, ZDoom or the original .exe.

It doesn't really have enough unique features for anyone to want to switch over to it. Of course, that might very well change in the future.

[Guest cocoon]

DosDoom were the days, then the author switched to coding Solitaire cardgames or something. :)

[Guest EvilOne]

enough features??? just name the port that has at least half of what Vavoom has!

[NiGHTMARE]

I said enough UNIQUE features.

Besides, ZDoom has way more features than Vavoom. ACS scripting, polyobjects, particles, everything from Boom, etc, etc, etc.

[Erik]

afaik the only thing in Zdoom that is not also in vavoom is polyobjects, and Vavoom has plenty of features that Zdoom doesn't have (extremely powerful scripting, way beyond that of ACS, 3d floors etc). Too bad that vavoom crashes instantly with a very cryptic message on my comp...

[NiGHTMARE]

Err, I thought Vavoom's scripting was for altering stuff like enemies and weapons as with DDF, not for levels like ACS or FraggleScript.

BTW, we're both wrong about polyobjects, apparently Vavoom DOES have them. However, it doesn't appear to have the million or so extended linedef types from Boom.

It also can't play MOD, S3M, XM, IT, MP3, etc, it doesn't have cameras, and, perhaps most importantly, no DeHackEd support for backwads compatability.

[boris]

Um, why should Vavoom not have Polyobjs? It's got Hexen support, and Hexen without Polyobjs would be rather weird.

[Erik]

ok, so it has polyobjs, and since dehacked patches can be made into vavoom progs with some util that is also covered. (Even though there should be a feature to do this automaticly when a .deh patch is detected).
And does Hexen support also mean that Vavoom has ACS as well as VavoomC? if that is the case this is surely the best port featurevise. If the damn thing just would run...

[NiGHTMARE]

Oh yeah, does Vavoom also have the following? If so, I might try using it in a map I'm working on.

Mirrors, monster patrol routes, phased lighting, gravity, fog, flat warping, flat scaling/panning/rotation.

[Erik]

Mirrors? are you serious? that gotta be the lamest feature ever.

Anyway, I don't think it's a good idea to edit specificly for this port until it's reasonably stable.

[NiGHTMARE]

Obviously you haven't thought about the incredibly cool tricks you can achieve with mirrors...

[Erik]

I guess I haven't, would you care to give an example? I sure can't think of any non-cheesy tricks it would be useful for.

[NiGHTMARE]

Well, just think about a huge mirrored maze, with a load of enemies in it, but you're never sure which is real and which is just a reflection.

It would be VERY hard to pull this off well, but it would definitely be possible.

[NiGHTMARE]

Oh, and there's also the fact that mirrors combined with translucency can be used for proper windows (as seen in Real Life (TM) ) :)

[Guest EvilOne]

First of all: both polyobjects and ACS are in Vavoom.

Concerning "million of linedefs"... you want something? WRITE IT! VavoomC offers such an opportunity. Create your own type of linedef or sector, a new special, some procedural effects... possibilities are infinite. In fact, it's pretty possible to write a "Boom compatibility pack" for Vavoom.

Now other things. Monster routes are not yet there, again, it's so easy to do! But no mirrors and fog, unfortunately... also you can't scale/rotate flats but you can put arbitrary textures on them - in fact, flats & textures can be used interchangeably.

And what is "phased lighting"?

[NiGHTMARE]

Well, I can imagine it would take quite some time to implement all the Boom linedef types, even if it is possible to put them all in.

No fog? I thought Hexen had it, and therefore Vavoom? Or is it just not available in Doom mode?

As for phased lighting, it's kind of hard to describe. Think of the warp drive in Star Trek TNG or Voyager.

[NiGHTMARE]

Forget Voyager, I forgot the warp core in that has all swirly stuff in it :)

[Law]

It doesn't work for me!

[Raziel Anarki]

Vavoom also features Quake's pure true Client/Server, REAL shadows are cast by static light objects (like torches),it can do mipmapping, md2 models in software mode, Q2/HalfLife style skyboxes just to mention some.

And the dehacked incompatibility is a side effect of implementing the game logic in VavoomC.

(btw phased lightning is implemented in the Hexen version of the progs. just copy and paste the code to doom)

[Aardappel]

there is only one cube messageboard now, and its on the cube homepage. Come and "network" :)

How do you know its choppier when you haven't tried it with anyone (there is nothing that the netcode could make "choppy" besides movement of other players). Also, there have been quite some updates to it.

[Aardappel]

There really is no feature related reason why not to use vavoom if you see all the stuff mentioned. I guess the reasons also lie elsewhere:

- the author took quite long to make the windows port even work correctly... it still has weird flaws

- there seems to be no community around it, which may have to do with the fact that the author doesn't react to the community (haven't seen him post anywhere), and the one time I emailed him about a bug he wasn't very helpful.

[Raziel Anarki]

Aard: I agree to you. People should try it first then they can tell their opinion.

I have vavoom since version 1.6, and i have made some experiments with it, and i say it is a musthave for the professional doom (de)hacker.

My stuff included new status bar code, HL-ish vgui system and other things that were impossible in dehacked.

[Raziel Anarki]

Aardappel:

Cube's gameplay is just great, the levels are great, but it should have some weapon models (IMO) (are they planned in the future?)

also my older machine with a VooDoo2 can
not run Cube in OpenGL mode (but things like
vavoom, jdoom, etc run well on it)

[Rellik]

Problems with vavoom (only my opinion):

1. Very little documentation. If he wants people to use it he has to make it easy to learn.

2. As Aardappel said, it's got no community and it's late. 99% of mappers are already loyal to ZDOOM or Legacy.

3. It doesn't do anything the same as the two above ports, requiring people to learn everything over again.

4. Great, a fourth port scripting language. Who cares if it does more? Who wants to learn a third bloody programming language? He spent all this time frankensteining ports together, he should've taken notes from EDGE. If he had EDGE DDF's he'd instantly gotten the soon-to-be portless EDGE users to move over.

5. It's soooo slow. Bah, he even nuked the cheat codes. He's gotta give mappers and modders GOOD REASON to switch fom their nice familiar engines to his and he's not doing it.

On the other hand having 3D slopes fucking rocks. Awesome job man!

[/pointless ramble]

[TheRequiem]

Shut up assses... none the less it's still a great port and I enjoyed it. Quit complaining about all the problems and rejoice that there is a new Doom port.